Starter Wiring on a 1993 Explorer

[BadPaint]

So I have become a the latest member of the "One Click" Club. One click at start up no turning over at all. I've changed the solenoid on right passenger fender wall. Pulled and checked the starter and AZ said it was good. I'm down to replacing the wires running from the battery to ... well everything. No worries in that, I found a GREAT thread on this site, thanks to Tbars4.

Here is my issue, in research on the starter I realized I have a wire that is not present on my starter. I have found that it is the negative held in place by the nut on the bolt at the bottom connector of the starter.

Now the questions.

1) Is it possible this has been rigged to ground some other way by the previous owner, (or did I miss it when I reconnected the starter after the bench test)

2) Where is this negative cable coming from so I can find it & reconnect it?

3) & This is for the hard core riggers out there. Can I safely run a (new or another) negative cable down the following the path of the positive cable and connect it there?

Here is a pic from another post on this site to get those memories jogging

Thanks for giving this noob here this much of your time!!!

 

[Anime]

You can run a negative cable if you want, but it's not going to do much unless the problem is you messed up the negative cable and it's no longer grounding the battery to the frame and the engine block. That's a cob job redneck solution to a problem that doesn't exist if things don't get messed up in the first place.

Stock config on most modern vehicles, including the Explorer, is just the positive cable running to the starter. It gets enough ground just being attached to the grounded engine block, provided the negative cable attached to the engine block is there and has a good connection.

Your clicky starter is probably something simpler.

Try this: when the starter clicks, get out, use a piece of wood or something similar, and tap on the starter gently. If it starts, then it means the brushes are worn down.

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,carcode,1119620,parttype,4156,a,Ad+Code+www.google.com+

It's a pretty easy fix to pop out the old brushes and pop in a new assembly. Or you can pony up for a whole new starter instead. I'd replace just the brushes and keep the Motorcraft starter. It'll last a long time compared to the cheap new Made-in China ones.

If it still doesn't start no matter how much you bang on it, it could be the other solenoid, the one on the starter itself, is bad, or you might have mis-wired something when replacing the wires.

My guess is the brushes, though. If so, go ahead and replace the fender solenoid with the original one.

 

[BadPaint]

Thanks, Anime. It did occur to me that it was getting Ground through the block. I'll give the starter a tap tonight and see if it kicks on. Didn't know you could just replace the brushes but if it goes with a tap I'll do just that.

This is my first SUV and I'm just happy to have under hood room to work, not to mention I pulled the starter without having to raise the car!!

I might run a direct ground just as a test though. I have my suspicions that my neg cable has mad bad hoodoo going on in the parts I can't visually inspect. Previous owner has chopped that poor thing within an inch of it usefullness.

 

[Anime]

The trouble with the stock cables is they can get corroded internally. If the ground cable is messed up, it's easier to just get a new one. Factory is the best but not cheap, or you can get one from Napa for quite a bit less that fits and has the same connectors, or just make your own, just be sure to ground to the frame and block like the stock cable was.

 

[BadPaint]

I tapped the starter with no change. Was that tap and then start? Or was that tap while starting? Cuz tapping while starting caused my starter to throw sparks. I honestly think my starter is bad no matter what the AZ clerk who did the bench test said.

My plans are to replace the ground with a Napa cuz well it needs it no matter what.

Next replace the starter (if it doesn't work of course)

I may try a starter first since it is so easy to swap.

 

[Anime]

Tap then start. Tapping while starting would probably be a bad idea. If a few good whacks makes no difference then it may be the solenoid rather than the brushes.

You can check the brushes pretty easily by just taking the starter apart, only going so far as seperating the black housing from the alloy base, with the armature out you should be able to peek at the brushes and see if they are really worn down.

Could just be the ground, or could even be the positive isn't getting any power to the starter, be sure the positive cable is hot at the starter end with a test light, and also that it's plugged correctly into the starter solenoid (spade terminal or screw-on terminal with nut) If the small wire isn't run from the fender solenoid to the starter solenoid, in addition to the big positive cable going from the battery to the fender solenoid and battery to the starter, it won't work.

 

[BadPaint]

I'm going to buy a test light today. gotta decide cheapie versus not so cheapie versus oh my god when would I need one to do that!!

 

[Maniak]

A trick I've done on our X to figure out whre the issue was involved jumper cables.

I hooked 1 end to the + on the battery and brought the other one down under the truck. I then touched the now hot side of the jumper cable to the starter to see if it would turn. If it did I knew it wasn't the starter but was the wiring.

It helps if you have a 2nd person so you can get situated and then have them connect the battery to the jumper cable.

Of course, make sure you block the tires, and have the vehicle in park/neutral with e-brakes on etc.

Also, do this with the key "off". That way it won't actually start. You just want to know if it turns over.

~Mark

 

[BadPaint]

Well I'm going to replace both cables today. Also gonna have the starter bench tested again. I looked at the starter positive connection and realized it has exposed copper about 1/4 inch after the connection. I think there is bad mo-ju-ju going on under the casing. I'll update about how it went and the outcome once installed. If I cut back the casing and see anything interesting I'll throw up some pics to end this thread off right.

 

[BadPaint]

so I take my starter in for giggles trying to handle an even more upsetting situation. Cross threaded grounding bolt I had the starter out and took it for a second opinion, cuz I never trusted the starter. It was bad, heard a similar story else where on the boards. So now I ave it back in but there is a noise coming from the block and and the battery light is on. Car down for a week and a half, worse than when it started all because some guy at AZ couldn't do a bench test. I gotta get a vise and the like to do this test on my own I guess but I just have little use for a vise.

 

[Anime]

Bench testing doesn't really help much, if it doesn't work on the vehicle that's enough to tell you something is up. You can do the tests with the jumper cables as mentioned above to "bench test" the starter on the vehicle without having to get a vise or anything else. If the starter works, then you know it's just a solenoid or something.

You can also take the starter apart to check if it's the brushes, or just get a new starter and try it, if nothing changes take it back.

The battery light usually comes on when the alternator isn't charging. If you screw something up it can fry the voltage regulator on the alternator.

 

[BadPaint]

Got the Bat light off but the rattle is still there. I also have a trip to the Mech scheduled for tomorrow

 

[BadPaint]

So I didn't take the car directly to my mechanic. I mean realy a starter swap should not be so hard.... and it isn't!!

O'Reilly's guy gave me the wrong dad gum starter. Gave me a automatic starter when I needed a manual starter.

So now I have a little fly wheel damage to boot. My mech says most parts dealers will cover the repair. I'm gonna sleep on it.

 

[FLwireman]

I have one of these testers, helps a lot with troubleshooting. http://www.tools-plus.com/milton-s1230.html Not only checks starter amp draw, also checks alt output. $10.00, what the heck. And made in U.S.A.