Ultimate build???

[ziggyofthenorth]

It has been too long. My B2 has been sitting and I have been slowly gathering parts. I'm finally getting close. Now I just have to figure out how to make it all work together.

My parts list is: 99 Explorer GT40P 5.0 V8, 88 F-250 Mazda M5R2 5-speed, 79 F-150 NP 205, Early Bronco Dana 44 drum brake front axle with matching Ford 9" rear.

I have two questions:

1. Any suggestions for making these parts work together better?
2. What are other ideas for the ultimate drive train & suspension set up?

Thanks,

Ziggy

 

[rookieshooter]

I think the reason your not getting any responce is the fact that the question/s are just so broad that a book could be written on them.
I would really spend a couple of days researching different builds on this site.
410s build is about as good as it gets with plenty of info.
For example, I have a chance to pic up two Dana 70 full floating dually axles free including one Sterling.
I have spent many hours researching Dana 70s and made a folder with about a zillion bits of info on these axles. All the spline sizes, pinion off sets, inner bearing sizes HD vs standard, axle lengths, interchangable parts between D60 toD70. can I shorten the axles and the list is still growing.
Point being, just old fashioned home work for all the info you want. And none of it is written in stone.

 

[janderson4010]

my only problems with the list you have there are that you don't have enough gear reduction for me, the m5 is not deep enough in first imo, the np205 is 2:1. the other prob is the drum brakes, easily fixed. so get a low gear kit for the 205, or really go low in those axles. should be pretty good depending on tire size.

 

[ziggyofthenorth]

I think the reason your not getting any responce is the fact that the question/s are just so broad that a book could be written on them.

Sorry about that. I was posting during lunch break and was in a hurry. I am on break again and will wait till I'm home with more time to rework my questions.

Ziggy

 

[ziggyofthenorth]

Reworked question

Sorry again. I rushed a question that I should have presented in a more thought out manner and chose words with two meanings to top it off. I was actually trying to narrow my options a bit and meant "ultimate" as in final - not as in biggest and baddest. I also forgot to mention what I was trying to achieve.

My goal is a vehicle that will be safe and comfortable on 4 or 5 hour highway trips, safe on windy hilly back roads, and able to negotiate most trails with out breaking anything or getting hoplessly stuck. Getting about 20 mpg or more would be nice too. My experience with stock Bronco IIs is that they have weak trannys and eat factory bushings in the front. They also get stress cracks in the floor under the drivers seat. Slightly oversized tires make them slow and are hard on the tranny if you do not change out the gears in the diffs. They are better off road than most people give them credit for and do most of what I want, but could be heavier duty with more horse power.

So far, I have been bargain hunting for better parts to put on my Bronco II mostly looking at early Bronco, Bronco II, Ranger, F-150, and Explorer parts. I have the following parts that I intend to try to use:

99 Explorer 5.0 V8 with computer and wiring. Runs good with about 120K

88 F-250 Mazda M5ODR2 $50 investment out of vehicle when purchased, looks good.

79 F-150 NP 205 works good. May not be original for truck need to check numbers.

7? Early Bronco Dana 44 with Drums, lock outs, raduis arms, & steering linkage Need to check numbers. U-joints in knuckles shot. Springs & brackets cut with torch

7? Ford 9 inch matches the Dana 44. shot bearing on one axle shaft. Need to check numbers

Other parts on hand that may be useful:

99 Explorer V8 tranny with wiring

99 Explorer V8 AWD T-case

96 Explorer 8.8 disc brake rear 3.73 gears

Assorted 302/5.0 distributors from 70s to 90s

99 Explorer rear springs

351 C Flywheel

79 F-150 steering linkage

79 F-150 4x4 steering gear Power steering

79 F-150 4x4 radius arms w/ lift brackets need to measure and compare to stock

79 F-150 short bed 4x4 4 inch body lift

302/5.0 oil pan possibly for Mustang II.

Stock 90s 5.0 mustang valve covers

Stock 90s 5.0 shorty headers

two oil coolers one goes in radiator hose and one in heater hose.

Drive shafts from 79 F-150 short bed, 99 Explorer, & 84 Bronco II.

Now that you have an idea of what I want to do and what I hope to do it with, here is a general idea of how I was thinking of putting it together:

Pull body off frame and drop stock suspension, install EB axles using EB front suspension and stock rear leafs. install motor using stock 95-01 Explorer mounts. Attempt to install tranny using stock explorer M5ODR1 mount & cross member. Add NP 205 and attempt to use factory F-150 mount. Customize drive shafts as necessary to fit. Replace innerfenders and radiator support with 95-01 Explorer parts and modify to accept B2 fenders, hood, etc. in order to use Explorer wiring, battery, radiator, etc. Place body on frame using body lift customized to provide clearance of heater box to valve cover.

Now that I have taken the time (maybe too much?) to spell out my goal, my parts list and how I planned to assemble it all, here are my questions:

1. Are there any issues that I am missing for this specific combination in this platform?
2. Are there any specific parts that would help this set up work better in this application?
3. I chose these parts partially by availability and affordability. Are there any parts I should replace with other reasonably affordable & available parts?

Thanks,

Ziggy

 

[janderson4010]

should work, the transmission is the weak link in this build as far as I can tell, behind 5.0 and especially pushing heavier components they aren't really beefy enough, look at the guys building fs broncos and f150's, they almost always swap them out for something beefier. In a bII with reasonable tires and a good gear ratio in the axles they should be ok.

will that np205 mount to the m50d? I guess if it has the 6 bolt pattern it should. its a heavy peice of iron though you may want to consider an additional c-member for it.

like i said before you should convert at least the front and hopefully the back to disk brakes, esp if you want it to be safe to dd and go on long trips. also make sure that you match the gear ratio to the size of tire you go with, that will optimize your fuel economy, youll want to lift it around 3-4" if your doing a sas swap so I assume your going to go with at least a 31-33" tire, look at 4.10 or 4.56 gears to get it in the right range for that.

I really don't know that you are going to hit the goal of 20mpg with this, im only expecting between 15-18 with my bII and im running a 4.0 in mine, that being said i kind of expect ill pretty much have to trailer mine by next summer, im going a little different direction than you haha.

all that being said you have a pretty good pile of parts there, just rebuild those axles and get new parts where you need them, reuse where you can to save some coin and have a kick ass time doing it all.

 

[4x4junkie]

My goal is a vehicle that will be safe and comfortable on 4 or 5 hour highway trips, safe on windy hilly back roads, and able to negotiate most trails with out breaking anything or getting hoplessly stuck. Getting about 20 mpg or more would be nice too.

Check out my build... That's exactly what mine is, with a far shorter swap parts list too.
Unless you forgot to specifically mention needing blazing fast acceleration, want to mud-bog or sand-dune it, or are planning to tow another vehicle on a trailer with it, I don't see all the need for the V8...
Yeah the 2.9L is definitely no powerhouse, but with the right axle gears for your tires, it's plenty adequate to merge with and keep up with traffic (though it often needs a downshift if the grade is steep). A 4.0L is a direct swap for the 2.9L if you also swap the dash however (even keeping the stock '88 dash, the wiring work is pretty minimal) plus it has gobs more torque at lower RPM. I can't imagine needing more power than you'd get from a 4.0L unless one of the items above is involved.

Like was said above, you'll be very hard-pressed to break 18 or so MPG with a V8 even freeway-only.


Edit:
Re-reading your post I see you already have the parts you listed... Yeah definitely upgrade the brakes on that old EB D44 (discs), plus the axle shafts to aftermarket ones having the larger u-joints. Without that, it's strength only places somewhere in between that of the pathetic D28 you got now and the D35 which is a bolt-in swap.

Skip the 9" rear (it's 28 spline), redrill the flanges on that '96 8.8" to match it to the D44 and use that instead, it's 31 spline, and doesn't have the pinion hanging down as low (better driveshaft angle, better trail clearance).

M5OD-R2 is not a bad trans. It gets a bad rap sometimes because it's very unforgiving of the fluid running low. If it's similar to the R1 with the 3 shift rail plugs on the back, they're well known to leak as they age, which would lead to it's quick demise. It's biggest downfall is it's tallish 1st gear.

Also skip the 205, the low range on it sucks and IMO it's just too big & heavy for use in a BII. I think a 208 would be a better candidate unless you need FWD-only for front digs while crawling (or maybe a 231 or 241 if they'll bolt up, not sure).

Last, forget the '79 steering box, the BII's stock box is the same across the board from BII to Ranger to F150-F250-F350-F450. It's plenty strong (replace it with a like unit only if it's worn out or something).


Hope that helps, should at least make things a little simpler.

 

[rookieshooter]

Agree about the 20 mpg with a V8, it's not going to happen. Especially with the rolling resistance of larger tires, gears and such. I love the sound and feel of my V8, but with the high compression heads which mean high octane gas, after market cam, manifold, headers and Holley 4 barrel, what ya expect. But what a ride.
It just depends on what you want. It's a pride thing, guys with 4.0s say theirs are the best and guys that have the 5.0s say their's is the best. Just do what you want.
When I cut off 6" off the passanger side of the front axle Dana 44 to give me the width I wanted, I could have used stock EB pass side axle shaft which would have been a direct bolt in. But that meant the weaker Ujoint. So all I did was send pass side axle to Moser Engineering who cut and re splined for $60. This was a 1979 HP axle.
I'm sure you could just swap out the driver side for a later model axle shaft if you don't want to pay for a chromo axle. Just an idea.
I would also use Nappa brand top of their line joints when you replace the old ones.

I did a lot of research before picking these. They are Cold Forged not hot forged like the cheapos. And for me they have stood the test of time.
I try to put out info that I have personal knowledge of and therefor recommend or not.

Also highly recommend getting this inexpensive rebuild kit with the new oil slinger and needle bearing kit, also note new u-joint. I even put a small spot weld on the caps to keep from spinning. To date the caps and joints are fine.

Great way you rewrote your OP.

 

[janderson4010]

It's a pride thing, guys with 4.0s say theirs are the best.

thats cuz they are

 

[rookieshooter]

I don't remember seeing the period after the word "best" hmmm Thought there was more :

 

[janderson4010]

Nah nothing important

 

[4x4junkie]

I would also use Nappa brand top of their line joints when you replace the old ones.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/honda2nr4life/Dana44 build/DSC03558.jpg

I did a lot of research before picking these. They are Cold Forged not hot forged like the cheapos. And for me they have stood the test of time.
I try to put out info that I have personal knowledge of and therefor recommend or not.

Real Dana Spicer joints in a Napa box.

"Raybestos Professional Grade" is the same thing as well, so here's another one you can look for with confidence.

Stay away from any dull-colored joints (this includes Moog).

 

[rookieshooter]

Good info as usual 4x4junkie.
FYI ziggy, 4x4junkie is one of our more knowledgeable guys and can take what he says to the bank.

For a moment I thought I was looking at the same picture I posted ha ha.
Moog is resting on their Past reputation since outsourcing their manufacturing to Mexico.
Just hope Dana Spicer learns from Moogs mistake.

 

[janderson4010]

Skip the 9" rear (it's 28 spline), redrill the flanges on that '96 8.8" to match it to the D44 and use that instead, it's 31 spline, and doesn't have the pinion hanging down as low (better driveshaft angle, better trail clearance).

I agree, plus on a 96 is should be disc on the back, thats a big upgrade. and 8.8's are plenty stout to handle up to 37's, and never break with 35's. rock that rather than the 9 inch. track width should be close enough to not notice a difference.

 

[4x4junkie]

Good info as usual 4x4junkie.
FYI ziggy, 4x4junkie is one of our more knowledgeable guys and can take what he says to the bank.

For a moment I thought I was looking at the same picture I posted ha ha.
Moog is resting on their Past reputation since outsourcing their manufacturing to Mexico.
Just hope Dana Spicer learns from Moogs mistake.

Yeah I hope so too. With Dana still supplying the OEMs I can't see how it would be worth the risk to them. But who knows... Corporations haven't always been making the brightest decisions these days.
The Moog joints I had crap out did say "Made in USA" though :scratch: I can't imagine where their quality's gone if they're being imported now

 

[rookieshooter]

Yeah I hope so too. With Dana still supplying the OEMs I can't see how it would be worth the risk to them. But who knows... Corporations haven't always been making the brightest decisions these days.
The Moog joints I had crap out did say "Made in USA" though :scratch: I can't imagine where their quality's gone if they're being imported now

Hecho en Mexico aka made in mexico has been found on many Moog boxes.

 

[ziggyofthenorth]

Thanks for all the info. I haven't had enough time to respond, but I've been reading it all.

I agree that the 5.0 is more power than I probably need, but I wanted the v8 tranny choices. All the V6 options seem weak. The Mazda tranny I got for $50 is stronger than any stock v6 version and cheaper than anything I could build for a V6. If the Mazda tranny starts to go, the ZF is supposed to be roughly the same in external dimensions and a direct replacement for the Mazda unit in an F series. I'm sure I could find a cheap ZF if I had the time to check every cheap 4x4 5 speed on Craigslist, but I settled for this in the mean time.

My daily driver is a 96 Explorer 5.0 with 300k running 3.73 gears and 255-70-16 tires. On road trips I usually get 17 to 18 mpg and Ive flirted with 20 mpg a few times. I'm guessing that shedding a few pounds and locking out the front hubs would get me there. Then again Bronco IIs are less aerodynamic (Flat like a cinder block).

I have been looking off and on for a while for the EB axles. I wanted the 76-77 front disc ones. I was so excited when I found these for a reasonable price that I did not look at them too hard. I figured that rebuilding something the right size is easier than cutting them down and then replacing parts. Maybe I should have gone the other way. I do not even have factory tags on either axle and I'm wondering if I should take them to a pro to check the tubes & housings. After all, it doesn't have to be noticably tweaked or cracked to eat bearings and they look a little beat.

The 9 inch can be upgraded to 31 spline and is so popular you can do almost anything to it with aftermarket parts. I prefer the rear discs on the 8.8 to any of the factory options I know of for the 9 inch though I have read that the Explorer disc set up will fit some 9 inch rear ends. The 8.8 has 3.73 gears, which I do not believe were an option for the EB axles so that would mean buying a gear set somewhere. Anyone know If I can put antilock on the 9 inch or the Dana? Not 100% sure what I'm doing here yet.

Thanks for the info on the ball joints. I'll take Mexican parts over Chinese parts any day though. I have bought Ford parts from the dealership that were Mexican and worked fine. I bought half a dozen front brake hoses made by different brands and purchased from different parts chains...all made in China...probably on the same assembly line. All of them had the groove for the clip machined wrong. Napa had one made in USA that looked like it sat on the back shelf since the 80s...it fit perfect.

 

[broncobra22]

Parts

Know your wanting to get started on your build and you've got a lot of parts so pick one end or the other to start on and just build...we all make changes as we go, I've build a lot of vehicles over the last 50 years and have had to make a lot of changes on each one. I always start with building the engine and drive train...that's just me. B2 with a 4.0 or a 5 liter good choices, 8.8 with disks off the Explorer or 9" 31 spline Ford both good, many other good choices also. I also like options with the transmission available to mate the V8, but make sure there is a case hookup available or you'll end up having to machine your own. The solid axle is also a great choice if in good shape. Some of the forum members have already given you some excellent directions to posts which will help a lot. Ranger Station has a pretty good tech site for B2 and Ranger conversions of all types. Hope you have fun along the way and will look forward to seeing your progress.

 

[janderson4010]

what size tires are you going to run?

 

[wood1]