Vehicle surging with shudder/maybe torque converter clutch?

[PotatoExplorer]

I am having the same rpms surging issue that PotatoExplorer is having at 35-45mph. I noticed the issue a few weeks ago and been searching for a fix. I'm going to try and clean the MAF and also the throttle body and see if that helps.

Oh no, I hope that your issue is as simple as that. It is good to hear (well not really, but you know what I mean) that I'm not the only one with this issue and I was extremely hopeful when I finally stumbled upon this thread. When I was dealing with that whole throttle body fiasco, I also cleaned the MAF sensor. If anything it seemed to improve the responsiveness.


Bill MacLeod,
I appreciate the feedback and the help! And I also appreciate your hopefulness of me finding a solution .!!

I keep wondering about the thin wires leading up to the COP and injector clips. Those thin little gauge wires feel so old and brittle, especially when I was in there trying to remove them for the plugs. I checked them as best as I could for cracks/melting, but didn't notice anything. Just seems like a bad design in my opinion.

I'm thinking the next logical step is to replace the COPs. As much as I don't want to keep throwing money at this, I need to just do it I suppose.

Is 1A Auto parts crappy? I found this hell of a deal of 8 COP for $72 -
https://www.1aauto.com/ignition-coi...gti8ZNPTLLq3IxLwOTvnsDZoschmKHNk54aArvE8P8HAQ

Here's the other thing I failed to mention - When the Explorer is in 1st or 2nd just cruising around downtown, she rides so smooth and the shifts between all gears, including 2nd into 3rd are like whipped creamy butter. There's so much of this vehicle that I want to love, up until recently (was spewing coolant at the rear, now it's spewing windshield wiper fluid from the passenger side), this was the main issue that deterred me from really wanting to drive it.

 

[tripplec]

Says lifetime warranty as well. Hmmm sound like its worth a try. What I notice is the Years compatibility is to 2008. I thought these were all the same to 2009 or even 2010 was the same base vehicle.

 

[PotatoExplorer]

Tripplec,

Good catch. Is it maybe because Ford used ones with a brown boot after 2007/2008? Not sure why it says this as I thought the same thing as you.

I also noticed Rock Auto has some decently priced options as well...

Power Select/WPS CFD508 ($14.08 each) - $113
http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=6399741&cc=1441671&jsn=467&jsn=467

and

Spectra Premium/Cooling Depot C652 ($14.77 each) - $119
http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=6280704&cc=1441671&jsn=468&jsn=468

Motorcraft ones are freaking ridiculously over priced at $43 a piece?!

 

[tripplec]

Yeah just saying, Plugs are the same as should be the heads so why the different coil (if its true). I guess seeing if Ford had a different part number for different years will add clarity.

I see you're riding an 2008 so no issue there.

 

[Explorer_PL]

Head design changed in 2008. I would stay away from aftermarket coils, but for diagnostic purposes, you can give it a try.

 

[Bill MacLeod]

Head design changed in 2008. I would stay away from aftermarket coils, but for diagnostic purposes, you can give it a try.

This seams to be the consensus, maybe try 1 or 2 new cops only. (motorcraft)

 

[tripplec]

Change as in 2008 and 2009 onwards were the new head right?

Edit: Just watched the 1A video posted with the part listing. No different than any other coil swap I have seen/done.

As its represented by that Auto Shop I doubt they'd be pushing a poor part as well. Worth a go IMO even to have spares on hand. Being in Canada its not straight forward getting part up to hear. Shipping can be a killer if a courier is used. Anyway ...

 

[PotatoExplorer]

Change as in 2008 and 2009 onwards were the new head right?

Edit: Just watched the 1A video posted with the part listing. No different than any other coil swap I have seen/done.

As its represented by that Auto Shop I doubt they'd be pushing a poor part as well. Worth a go IMO even to have spares on hand. Being in Canada its not straight forward getting part up to hear. Shipping can be a killer if a courier is used. Anyway ...

Hmmm that's what I would think about a company like 1A Auto. Their how-to videos have helped me out numerous amount of times. But then again people choose not to get cheap plugs for a reason, so why should ignition coils be any different??

In searching what others thought about the subject I had stumbled across this thread at another Ford truck forum, and post #3 seems very interesting to me...
http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/977737-do-yourself-a-favor-and-steer-clear-of-china-coils.html

It has me wondering... do I even have OEM Motorcraft ignition coils on my vehicle????

 

[ExpoSittinLow]

I cleaned the throttle body and MAF sensor today as well as taped up a couple of wires leading to the TPS that had slight cracking in the wire sheathing. Took it for a test drive and the issue is still there but doesn't seem as bad. I will monitor it for the next few days and see what happens.

 

[PotatoExplorer]

Status update - took her to the Maintenance shop here at my work. The one guy who's very handy with cars hooked it up to his scanner tool and found no codes stored. He was saying it is possible that I either didn't let the car drive long enough in limp mode for a code to store or that the issue wasn't a hard enough problem to store the code. He also said that he has no experience with this particular Ford so he isn't 100% sure why it wouldn't store a code.

He did provide some great tips though. He said check the plugs to see if any of them are showing signs of running lean. His thought was that if it truly is a COP issue than some of them should come out looking ashy and this will pin point the cylinders with the broken COPs. I'm going to take a quick look at my old ones before heading to work. Luckily I laid the old ones on my work bench exactly in order that I took them out. Will post my results shortly.

 

[tripplec]

Good luck on it,

 

[PotatoExplorer]

Excellent news (I think)! I've got evidence of cylinder #7 running too lean, more than likely pin pointing a bad COP. Here's what #7 plug looks like...


Plug #4 didn't look like it was running lean, just rusty and gross. Here's #4 -


After getting to work I thought I probably should have taken a picture of one of the good plugs just for reference... eh, oh well. Not sure if cylinder #4 COP is bad, but I'm going to order one just in case.

After reading several horror stories of aftermarket COPs (see my Ford Truck link in post #88), I'm going to order Motorcraft even though the price is higher. I found them on Amazon though for about $10 cheaper.

I'll let everyone know what happens when they arrive and get installed.

EDIT****************** 04/13/17
I decided to take a picture of one of the good plugs just for comparison purposes. Unfortunately the sun was setting and made everything blue in color, but you can still see the tip is more of a coffee/brownish color, indicating a good burn. This is a picture of Plug #1 -

 

[tripplec]

Good news, then, injector or Coil issue then?
Wow I haven't seen that style of plug before.

 

[PotatoExplorer]

Good news, then, injector or Coil issue then?
Wow I haven't seen that style of plug before.

Gosh, I hope it's not an injector issue. I would have no idea where to begin with that. Don't the 2009s use the same Motorcraft plug style?

2 COPs ordered! Should be here towards the end of next week.

OH LAWD, PLEASE LET THIS WORK!!

 

[willied]

Good to hear. Hopefully that'll do it! I think I should check mine out now and see how they're looking.

 

[tripplec]

Injector cleaner or a profession in rail pressure clean would flush the injectors if need. I never done that but had it pushed at me a few times in the life of various vehicles. Likely due to vehicle sitting too long with old gas or poor quality gas IMO. If its that. They are up top and other than getting the new O-rings in properly (lubbing them) before installating another injector. Look at some at a wrecker. practice on their engine. LOL

Just brain storming with my fingers...If these fuel rails have a schrader valve it should not be hard to have it done. If needed, not say it needs to have it done but.

EDIT: This is the plug I find looking on NGK website for 08-09 with the newer block.
PZNAR6A11H which are an open ground hook.

 

[PotatoExplorer]

Well, holy poop. My COPs were suppose to arrive at the end of this week, but ended up arriving today - Wahoo!! Thanks to Daylight Saving Time beginning I've gained an extra hour of daylight and decided to tackle this after work.

I took a look at the new Motorcraft COPs and compared them with the ones in my car. Sure enough, #4 COP wasn't like the others. Still not sure if #4 is exactly the one at fault, but since this was not OEM, I swapped it out.


I changed out #7 COP, the one I most likely think is the culprit. I pulled the boot off and took a look at the spring and the boot itself. Everything visually appeared fine, but I went ahead and swapped it out.
https://flic.kr/p/XZPhTU
So after swapping them out, verifying that the rest of the COPs were indeed Motorcraft, and then cleaning up, it was time for the test drive!

ANDDDDDDDDD... sure enough the problem was still there. I test drove it about 20ish miles and kept forcing it into that bog down zone. Much like the fuel filter replacement, towards the end of the test drive it got harder and harder to replicate. I think it might have completely disappeared at the end, but I don't want to jinx it... I need to spend more time behind the wheel in order to say for sure. BUT OF COURSE we're suppose to get 20" of snow tonight - W-T-F?! So it might be a little while before I can report in with the results. If it's still persisting, my next step is to try the PCM reset and maybe dumping in a crap load of Seafoam into the tank.

ALSO, I kept getting this like *wooshing* noise from the passenger area every damn time I pressed on the gas pedal. Does anyone know what this part is called?

I pulled the hoses off and flipped it around and it has stopped making the noise all together. I don't know what the hell it's for or what it does (it had "AC" stamped on it) and I tried searching "AC valve" with no luck.
https://flic.kr/p/XZPhAE
P.S. - Edited post #92 to include a picture of one of the good plugs for comparison purposes (Plug #1).

 

[Bill MacLeod]

Looks like a check valve on a vacuum line. Best you check its route. (not that you will need ac tomorrow)

Get your snow shovel ready. We are on the edge of the storm, just did an hours worth of cardio exercise. LOL

 

[PotatoExplorer]

It appears it's and A/C Check Valve -
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums...noise-when-accelerating-then-dies-out.303106/

Not sure what will happen with it reversed... I hope my A/C doesn't explode!

And holy hell, over 6 hours of straight shoveling and an official total of 16" for my area. I'm whooped!!

... OK, sorry for getting off topic. I'm hoping to log some more test driving time this weekend. I'll post my results afterwards!

 

[PotatoExplorer]

So I got my A/C Check Valve replacement in the mail today and slapped her on. Instantly took care of that hissing problem.

Question for those more mechanically savvy folks...
Do you guys think that this faulty valve may have caused enough vacuum pressure loss in the engine to cause the RPM surging?? I've only had time to drive locally (to and from one side of town a couple of times at around 25MPH) and haven't been able to give it a true test drive. I'll hopefully be able to test this out tomorrow.