Water Wetter

[Todd]

I was in Springfield, MO this past weekend and finally got to stop by a Pep Boys. I will tell you this, I wish we had one here in St. Louis, MO. They carry about 10x more than AutoZone, etc.
Anyway, I picked up a bottle of Redline's Water Wetter. Boy does that stuff work! It is not a half temp gauge difference or that, but it is a noticeable change. The needle is a little more stable and it appears to be a "letter" lower(which boils down to at least a 5 degree difference or so). Hey for 5 or 6 bucks a bottle, you can't beat it!
I would definitely recommend it if you have any type of problems with heat and your engine!
Take care everyone and happy exploring!

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Todd Metzger
tmetz@umr.edu
'Off-Road and More!'
93 "Ford X 4" XLT

 

[Pete]

This is interesting because, in theory at least, the thermostat (which in my line of work we would call a temperature-control valve) is supposed to maintain the engine temperature at 195°. That means it is supposed to open and close to control the flow of coolant based on the upstream (inlet) temperature.

As you know the Water Wetter is a surfactant, or surface-tension reducer. The reduction in surface tension allows improved contact of the coolant with the heat exchanger (radiator) thereby increasing heat transfer while using the same size radiator. Drag racers use this stuff all the time. In fact as far as I know most race cars use plain water + surfactant as engine coolant; they don't use ethylene glycol at all.

The mystery to me is why your thermostat and gauge needle is not adjusting to this, which it should. All it cares about is maintaining its setpoint which it does by opening or closing a little. I suspect in the winter or on cool days you'll see no effect of the Wetter. Where this stuff would be good is when the thermostat is wide open in hot weather and the truck is under heavy load. Then you can use all the cooling you can get because the thermostat will be above 195°. Thanks for passing along your experience - I'll be adding some to my '91 because we have high ambient temperatures here in the summer (over 100° a lot of the time).

 

[Pete]

This is interesting because, in theory at least, the thermostat (which in my line of work we would call a temperature-control valve) is supposed to maintain the engine temperature at 195°. That means it is supposed to open and close to control the flow of coolant based on the upstream (inlet) temperature.

As you know the Water Wetter is a surfactant, or surface-tension reducer. The reduction in surface tension allows improved contact of the coolant with the heat exchanger (radiator) thereby increasing heat transfer while using the same size radiator. Drag racers use this stuff all the time. In fact as far as I know most race cars use plain water + surfactant as engine coolant; they don't use ethylene glycol at all.

The mystery to me is why your thermostat and gauge needle is not adjusting to this, which it should. All it cares about is maintaining its setpoint which it does by opening or closing a little. I suspect in the winter or on cool days you'll see no effect of the Wetter. Where this stuff would be good is when the thermostat is wide open in hot weather and the truck is under heavy load. Then you can use all the cooling you can get because the thermostat will be above 195°. Thanks for passing along your experience - I'll be adding some to my '91 because we have high ambient temperatures here in the summer (over 100° a lot of the time).

------------------
Pete

Thought for the day:
Good judgement comes from experience;
Experience comes from bad judgment.

 

[Todd]

Pete,
I do agree with you 100%. I did not add the water wetter to help at all times. However, over time, during the hot summer months, my vehicle runs much warmer than in the winter. In essence, I am trying to increase the cooling capacity of the entire system so as to avoid these flucuations and the notorious creep toward the red zone.
An example, after running on the highway with the AC on for some time in the summer, the engine tends to run hotter than if you did this in the winter. As you stated, in theory, the thermostat should control the engine coolant temperature to a steady 195 degrees. However, thermostats in our less than perfect world, especially cheap ones, can not open and close instantaneously (which would provide the steady 195 degree temperature). Rather, and I am sure you know(I am just clarifying for the sake of arguement and bordedome Dead Link Removed ), the thermostat actually works over a certain range which tends to increase as temperatures rise while still trying to aim at a target temp.(I should be careful how I word this, because in actuality, it is not the thermostat by itself, but rather a combination of the components of the cooling system) This can be seen by looking at one's temperature gauge in the winter versus the summer. During summer months, flucuations in temp are magnified versus those in the winter months. This is due to the inability of the entire system to cool as effectively and efficiently in warmer weather.
Another comment... today's temperature is about 10 degrees cooler than it was yesterday. The temperature gauge ran at the same level that it normally does in cooler weather. As you stated, there is no difference in engine coolant temperature after versus before. However, yesterday, being warmer, the temp gauge ran at just about the same level as it is today. This was not the case before the Water Wetter. So, to me it worked and I am glad to see that you are taking my word for it. You shouldn't be disappointed with its effects.
So you know, I am just making scientific chit-chat and not trying to flame you or anything. I see that you are a mechanical engineer and I, an apsiring mechanical engineer. I just wanted to put my thoughts in on this.
BTW, I wonder if I could "borrow" a BEM Shell/Tube HE from one of the plants that I work in and tie it to the roof. Would it be better than my radiator? JJ Dead Link Removed
Take care and happy exploring!



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Todd Metzger
tmetz@umr.edu
'Off-Road and More!'
93 "Ford X 4" XLT

 

[Pete]

Sure it would dude. You just have to figger out a way to cool it. I know... tell ya what I'll do: I got a nice AEW left over from a sour NGL caustic sweetening process revamp that you can have for real cheep. It was too small. Fisrt you gotta clean out all the NaOH, though. It's 12' long by 12" in diameter, (24) 7/8" Ø tubes of 316L, CS shell, with 64 CS baffles, 3"-150# flanges. Would fit just right on top of your Explorer. Would look pretty studly too. Just paint it to match. 'Course, to make this thing work you have to find some kind of heat rejection medium. May I suggest you run the engine coolant through the HEX tubeside, then set up a big air duct to cram air through the shellside inlet flange while you drive 60 mph. THAT should do it. Don't forget to leave the rear foot bolts a little loose to allow for thermal growth of the unit or it will tear a hole in your roof when it heats up... To control this thing, I also have a couple 1" 300# Fisher 667-ED Microflute valves and an old but servicable Fisher 546 I-p that you can have. Just put the valve on the HEX tubeside outlet, connect the actuator to the I-p transducer from your truck's EEC-IV and use your ARB air locker's air compressor to supply the air. You will DEFINITELY get better setpoint control with this setup than with any $3.95 AutoZone thermostat, le' me tell you. The valve will modulate as you change your driving speed to compensate for the reduced shellside inelt air flow. Dead Link Removed Dead Link Removed Dead Link Removed Did I mention I was bored? Later...

 

[Ray Lobato]

Hey Pete,
If you are that bored, why don't you design a good looking rear tire carrier/ bumper for my 97XLT that also has a hitch and removable Jerry can holder on the left hand side of the tire carrier. some storage compartments would be nice too. Dead Link Removed It seems that Paul Bredehoft's bumper man retired and I really am looking for one. Dead Link Removed Interested?

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Happy Wheelin'
Ray L.
97 XLT 4X4 4.0L SOHC

 

[Todd]

Pete,
Sounds like a plan! It also sounds like you were really bored Dead Link Removed
I can't say that I know quite that much about HE's. The only experience that I have with them is from a plant in Tennessee as water chillers(very simple setup) and aftercoolers on sugar and flour silo blowers. I have a question for you, very off topic, but I will ask it anyway...
I asked this to one of my PM's one time and he sent me to the process guys. However, being a mere intern, these guys/gals don't really have time to explain to me the answer to my question(work load is too high right now). Anyway, I know about what the three-letter classification stands for,eg. BEM I know is a general/all-purpose class, but what are they exactly? I sort of gathered, from data sheets and the like, that they are duty and material design type classifications. Is there more though?
Maybe you could point me in the direction of a website, etc. Thanks in advance.
I apologize to Rick and the rest of the members for posting this, but this is a place to learn, right? Maybe we all might learn a little more in the process Dead Link Removed
Take care and happy exploring!

------------------
Todd Metzger
tmetz@umr.edu
'Off-Road and More!'
93 "Ford X 4" XLT



[This message has been edited by Todd (edited 08-11-1999).]

 

[Pete]

First the mandatory Explorer content...

Ray - I have considered designing a rear bumper for my truck. I've not found one that does what I want it to do for less than $2000 and that is WAY too much for this poor Bakersfield Okie. SO I thought I'd try my hand at it. The design of the thing is no problem - my problem is getting it built. I wouldn't trust my welding for anything so I have to find someone willing to take this on as a project for potential future sales. Will keep you posted. Still haven't got my antenna calibrated either - shame on me...

Optional non-Explorer content follows... Dead Link Removed Using up Rick's bandwidth...

Todd - The three-letter HEX designation, e.g. BEM, is a shorthand for a design standard instituted by TEMA (Tubular Exchangers Manufacurers Association) for shell-and-tube heat exchangers. The three letters designate the particular mechanical construction of the exchanger. In your case, the B means the front end (head) of the exchanger is a 'bonnet' stationary head, also called integral cover. It doesn't move when the exchanger heats up. The second letter is the shell type; 'E' means a one-pass shell, meaning the shellside fluid only passes thru the HEX once before exiting; 'F' is a two-pass shell with one baffle, etc. The third letter is the rear end head type. 'M' means a fixed tubesheet (the big metal plate that holds the tubes in place) and doesn't move, similar to the 'B' front stationary head. This exchanger expands as a unit so one end is left loosely bolted, or slotted with low-friction pads under its rear support foot to let the whole unit expand when it heats up upon going into service. Other HEXs will have the tubesheet expanding inside the shell. The type of HEX selected depends on what the job is (temps. and pressures) and the nature of the fluids involved. It's usually a trade-off, like everything else in life. Gas plant reboilers are usually type AKU. Boiler feedwater heaters are usually BEM or AEW, at least in my experience. These codes only apply to shell-and-tube type HEXs. If you're really interested in this stuff send me your fax number and I'll fax you some stuff. Happy exchanging! Later.

 

[Skip Pendle]

Pete:

Your answer to Todd (and Todd's willingness to learn more about his job) is one of the best examples I've seen yet of what the internet is all about.

Congratulations!