a bit confused...need some guidance to wrap my head around this!

[jenren81]

Hey all....

I have an 03 sport, 4x4, with the 2wd, 4hi, 4lo knob. I'm getting some odd noises up front that sound like 4hi is engaged, like a groaning noise, or the ujoints, something. After looking under the truck, I think it's something to do with the front diff, driveshaft, something in that general area. The front diff is leaking more than it has been, and there is also a pretty big oily spot by the boot on the front driveaxle, ujoint???

Now here is my question -- if the truck is in 2wd, that means just the rear wheels are getting power, correct? So, from the transfer case forward, should the driveshafts be rotating when the car is in gear? I would think that only the rear driveshaft would be rotating and the front ones wouldn't be.

I had my roommate drive it in the driveway and the front and back shafts both spin when in 2wd. So basically, is that how this is supposed to work, or is it stuck in 4hi? I know the best way to check would be to jack it up, but I don't have a big enough wood block to put on the bottlejack.. that and i just had a hernia surgery and don't want to push it, haha. I'll try to get a block tomorrow and jack the front to see if i can spin the front driveaxle like the sticky at the top explains.

I tried to search, and read a lot and learned quite a bit, but nothing definitive about this. thanks for any help!

 

[briwayjones]

You having an identity crisis Jenni?

If it's in 2wd the front driveshaft should not be turning.

 

[jenren81]

haha yeah, i am! i got rick to switch my name for me... it just bothered me that this was my only user name that was different. now my identity is solved and i feel better about myself i think when i made my old name i never expected to actually post!

i didn't think it should be turning.... ruh rohhhh... i'm sure something is majorly screwed then since i haven't shifted into 4hi since Ouray! hmm. definitely need to get this back into 2wd before i head home for thanksgiving!

luckily, i haven't driving that much since ouray (assuming that is when it got stuck? i never noticed the sound til awhile after i was back in boulder). can it jump into 4hi on it's own? not good. i'll try to go unhook the neg battery terminal like i read somewhere. weird.

 

[briwayjones]

Do you get binding on corners? You knoiw, I can never quite keep straight how the 2nd gen 4wd system works. The front driveshaft may always turn and it may just connect and disconnect the front axle shafts at the diff. Someone else will be able to answer that.

 

[Willard]

The front drive shaft will always turn, the front wheels are always connected to the differential. So while it may not be powered, the front is "freewheeling".

With that said, a bad axleshaft CV joint could be the problem here.

 

[James909]

On the second gens the axle shafts are splined directly into the hubs. This means that whenever the front wheels are turning the entire front driveline is turning (axle shafts, diff, and driveshaft). With the exception of '95 and '96 trucks which had diffs that had the ability to disconnect one of the axle shafts to keep the driveshaft from turning. So the fact that the front driveshaft is turning when the truck is moving doesn't indicate a problem, it always does that. So I would think that the truck is not stuck in 4wd. You would know if it was because the tires would be scrubbing around turns. So I think the noise is coming from elsewhere. What kind of conditions does it make the noise under? Turning, bumps etc.?

 

[Willard]

^^yea what he said^^

 

[jenren81]

ah ok... that makes sense. i had read so much that i couldn't figure out where mine fit in. i reset the battery, drove it around, and switched from 2w, to 4hi, then 4l. i get the dash board "click" going into 4hi, and i get the dash board click and then the clunk underneath when going to 4lo, so i at least know it goes into that.

the noise comes up around 20mph, no vibrations or anything, just a groaning sound, like what you hear when 4wd is engaged. i can notice it more when turning the wheel left. my gas mileage this tank is horrendous, which is what made me think it might be stuck, but it's probably something else.

i had posted in an old thread by hokie, he had the same issues sometime back. i'm glad to hear it is supposed to be moving i just started seeing $$$ disappearing.

 

[jenren81]

i'm going to have to make sure the brake calipers aren't sticking... got new brakes all around over the summer... actually, we only put two new rotors on. i know the other two might be warped, but it doesn't seem like that. i had that happening before my last brake change.

 

[gijoecam]

You having an identity crisis Jenni?

If it's in 2wd the front driveshaft should not be turning.

The front drive shaft will always turn, the front wheels are always connected to the differential. So while it may not be powered, the front is "freewheeling".

With that said, a bad axleshaft CV joint could be the problem here.

ah ok... that makes sense. i had read so much that i couldn't figure out where mine fit in. i reset the battery, drove it around, and switched from 2w, to 4hi, then 4l. i get the dash board "click" going into 4hi, and i get the dash board click and then the clunk underneath when going to 4lo, so i at least know it goes into that.

the noise comes up around 20mph, no vibrations or anything, just a groaning sound, like what you hear when 4wd is engaged. i can notice it more when turning the wheel left. my gas mileage this tank is horrendous, which is what made me think it might be stuck, but it's probably something else.

i had posted in an old thread by hokie, he had the same issues sometime back. i'm glad to hear it is supposed to be moving i just started seeing $$$ disappearing.

Those are the classic symptoms of either a bad CV joint or a bad bearing assembly. The other possibilities are a bad u-joint on the front driveshaft, or a bad front pinion bearing (although those tend to change pitch with speed).

Any halfway competent driveline shop should be able to take it for a test ride and diagnose the problem in short-order (and at no charge).

-Joe

 

[jenren81]

thanks man.... those are pretty much the conclusions i came to as well. thanks everybody for setting my confused mind straight when it comes to the front driveshafts and 2wd

 

[jenren81]

I called a driveline place here in Boulder, i'm gonna drop in tomorrow and have the guy take a look at it. i gave him a set of possible scenarios (to make me not sound like a clueless girl, ha!) and after i told him what vehicle i have, he said "well i already think i know what it is." something about he has seen a lot of explorers with some sort of "front driveshaft issue" and so on. IF that is the problem, he said it's anywhere from 3-400 dollars to fix. I'll have to get exact details tomorrow with whatever he finds.

bummer i'm 600 miles from home or my dad could take care of this for me. i'm going home for thanksgiving, but am afraid that 10 hour drive might be too much for whatever problem it is. dad said not to risk it in case it's something serious...

thanks again for the help guys.

 

[briwayjones]

(to make me not sound like a clueless girl, ha!)

No, you want to here about a clueless girl? I'll tell you a story about a clueless girl. She is one of the clueless people that you see coming from a mile away when it comes to vehicles and such. A friend of mine used to have an Explorer and I would work on it for her since it was an Explorer and it I was familiar with it. So she takes it in to a Sears auto service shop for new tires. She calls me and leaves me a message saying that the guy at the shop said the brakes were worn out and needed to be replaced what should she do? Now, I had replaced the brakes myself about a year before, and my friend maybe drives 5,000 miles a year. And I had driven it just a few days before. So I call her back and leave her a message to the effect of, "tell him not to touch your brakes, there's nothing wrong with them". Well I get a message the next day or talk to her and she's like, "well, he had it there and could see what was going on so I went ahead and had him change them. They seemed like nice people". I had her pull her paperwork and sure enough, they had less than 5,000 miles on them. Now, the most frustrating part of this is, this is not the first time she would 1. ask my advice (on something I had direct knowledge of like this) 2. not listen to my advice and 3. spend a lot of unnecessary money because she didn't listen to my advice that she asked for because I had directly dealt with what she was asking about. :fire:

Ok, sorry I'll step down now.

 

[jenren81]

ha... i've heard of that happening to far too many girls, i'm glad i have a little more know-how than most girls... just because of where/how i grew up. otherwise, i'd be as clueless as everybody else! that, and i have an inherent distrust of anybody that wants my money, lol

No, you want to here about a clueless girl? I'll tell you a story about a clueless girl. She is one of the clueless people that you see coming from a mile away when it comes to vehicles and such. A friend of mine used to have an Explorer and I would work on it for her since it was an Explorer and it I was familiar with it. So she takes it in to a Sears auto service shop for new tires. She calls me and leaves me a message saying that the guy at the shop said the brakes were worn out and needed to be replaced what should she do? Now, I had replaced the brakes myself about a year before, and my friend maybe drives 5,000 miles a year. And I had driven it just a few days before. So I call her back and leave her a message to the effect of, "tell him not to touch your brakes, there's nothing wrong with them". Well I get a message the next day or talk to her and she's like, "well, he had it there and could see what was going on so I went ahead and had him change them. They seemed like nice people". I had her pull her paperwork and sure enough, they had less than 5,000 miles on them. Now, the most frustrating part of this is, this is not the first time she would 1. ask my advice (on something I had direct knowledge of like this) 2. not listen to my advice and 3. spend a lot of unnecessary money because she didn't listen to my advice that she asked for because I had directly dealt with what she was asking about. :fire:

Ok, sorry I'll step down now.

 

[briwayjones]

that, and i have an inherent distrust of anybody that wants my money, lol

That may have gone a long way to helping her out if she was the same.

 

[jenren81]

so i took it to a driveline specialist yesterday...unfortunately, the cv's, ujoints, etc etc are all ok. he said there is some wierd clicking sensation where the driveshaft goes into the differential... he thinks it's something related to that. he doesn't do diffs, so he sent me on my way.

i've called a few places today to find out if i can get it in to look at it, everybody seems booked up til next week. It sounds $$$$$$$$$$$$. The one guy I talked to said it would be better to swap them out instead of rebuilding it, if that is what is wrong. Looks like I'm stuck in Boulder for thanksgiving!

On a side note... when i veer the wheels left going down the road, the howling/growling/funny noise intensifies. When straightening the wheel, it goes away a little. I'm going to check wheel bearings tonight. This sucks!

What do you guys think? I know it's hard to diagnose over the computer :-(

 

[jenren81]

soooo...went to the shop for a rundown. front diff is ok. pinion seal is leaking, but i knew that. axle seal (if i remember correctly) is leaking... front diff full of fluid, clean. rear diff fluid is a bit mucky. tranny fluid is "burnt" as he said, guess i need a flush. t-case fluids are "muddy" looking. ujoints ok, left cv ok, right cv has some "play" but it's not extreme. meh. guess i'll get the fluids changed since it's time anyway, on the fence with the CV. i just want to make it home for thanksgiving, haha.

 

[Turdle]

When you say the noise changes with steering-I immediately think the hub has gone kapuut.

 

[Damonkr]

I would tend to say hub assembly also. The cv's will pop or bind under tight turning condition, however the hub assembly is tough to identify with it in the vehicle in my oppinion. Try jacking the problematic side up and pushing on the top and bottom of the tire. If there is any play (movement) in the wheel) it is in need of a hub assembly. These are pricey new, but a replacement can be found for around $40 typically from a junk yard. Be sure that it turns freely but doesnt spin, it should have some resistance but beable to be turned by hand. As for the ten hour trip home ??? I would do it if there was NO SLOP In the Hub Assembly. CV's will rarely leave you stranded when not under the strains of heavy off road use. Hub Assemblys will cause so pretty ugly failure even Dangerous at highway speeds. I would reccomend taking your vehicle to your local alignment/tire shop to have them check the wheel bearing if you dont have the resources. Alignment guys have usualls seen more bad wheel bearing/hub assemblys than all of us on here put together.

P.S.
I have sister that lives nearly 1200 mi from me and I have had to go get her to make it home for thanksgiving. hope it works out for you!

 

[jenren81]

yeahhh, my dad tends to think it's hub related as well. the place i took it is a 4x4 shop i got my alignment done awhile back, they had it up on the lift and i'm not sure if they checked all that or not...i would think they would, i mean the guy rode in the care with me. i'll check it tomorrow myself, that is one thing i know to spot. i need to acquire another wood block as the one in my garage isn't enough to get the truck up before the jack maxes out. i need a) new jack and b) a bfh to murder this truck..haha. darned tall trucks!

well that is nice of you to go pick up a sister 1200 miles away! my brother would probably do that but he's only 11... just a few more years til he can drive!