Discussion in 'Modified 2011- 2019 Explorer Sport Tuning' started by deewan, March 10, 2012.
Are the wire colors the same as the second seat on to the 3rd seat on your Ex??
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No, they were black and black with white at the 3rd row speakers....I simply disconnected them and capped off the wires at the speakers...that way all of the signal is feeding the rear doors only off those channels.
Yes you have it right on the mounting. If I use these in this spot I will remount to the OEM surrounds. I too think it will help the bass. The most interesting part is these are filling all the missing hi's and mids from the OEM toy speakers. I do have to over balance to the rear to get enough to hear them but it's better. Wish I knew what the HU was providing for a signal. It would answer a few questions.
I also am using the CD player to compare thanks to your comments ie. Sirius.
Wonder where they are bridged. Were you able to remove the filter as well. it would draw power.
This makes me wonder why one could not run these to a amp to power a small sub for additional bass. Might get the best of both worlds if i cant get the bass I need from the second seat speakers. They are providing bunches more highs and mids then the OEM toys.
Golly now i need to tear out the 1/4 panels. wish it would warm up.
I did not pull the panels. There are little trays on the armrest areas of the 3rd row. They have panels that pop out to give access to the shock tower, I think....those panels also give access to the back sides of those 3rd row speakers. Cap was right on the speaker IIRC...I cut further upstream and capped off.
Deewan can you keep me straight here.
These Kappas have a sensitivity rating of 95 dB at 2 ohm impedance.
Standard sensitivity is 85 DB into 4 ohms impedance.
These Kappas will need more power to perform better??? Or less assuming the standard is correct.
Thanks for the input. It wouldn't be the strangest thing I've seen, but makes very little sense to me why they would do that. Running four speakers off 2 amp channels, one set of speakers full range (second row doors) and the other with bass blockers (cargo area).
I think you are still confused a bit about the bridged mode for an amp. I believe you are referring to being rear speakers being wired in parallel or series, not having an amp bridged.
The speaker leads for the rear speakers could be used to provide a signal for a sub amp. The amp would need high level inputs or you need a high level to low level (RCA) converter.
Again, I think you are confusing two concepts. High level explanation, the sensitivity will tell you how loud a driver will play with a certain power supply. Normally given as 85db at 1 watt or something like that.
The impedance is what the amp 'sees' and determines how hard the amp must work to power the driver. The lower the ohm rating, the 'harder' the amp has to work and thus the more power it has to output.
If the Kappas have a density of 95, that's pretty darn good. I'm sure the specialized drivers in the Kappas for mis and high explain why you are getting much better sound. The lack of an enclosure would explain your lack of bass. It's no different than listening to a raw speaker that is sitting on the floor. You don't hear much bass. Put the same speaker in a basic cabinet, and the bass starts to boom.
Just to clarify: my 2016 9-speaker premium system does not have a separate factory amplifier...all 9 speakers are driven by 5 full-range channels of the factory radio. There's a separate center channel pair of hi level speaker wires and 4 pairs of hi level speaker wires going to left front, right front, left rear, and right rear respectively. As best I can tell, all are full range. The 9 speakers use differing impedance and some have capacitors to filter bass. I believe that the signal coming to the right rear and left rear doors is full range and that the 3rd row speaker wires tap off of these...therefore, I think that they could likely be used to feed as high level input to a sub amp, either directly or through a line level converter.
left rear doors is full range and that the 3rd row speaker wires tap off of these...therefore, I think that they could likely be used to feed as high level input to a sub amp, either directly or through a line level converter.
That being said... Does a line level converter place a load on input wires?
Dose this device have outputs for a amp??
Not a load that would make a difference to the source feeding it. A line out converter (such as the Audio Control LC-2i or Scosche SLC-4) take speaker level input and put out line level RCA Jacks which can feed and amplifier. However, many amps are now built to accept a range of input types/voltages...and can take speaker level signal as input with no need for a separate converter.
"I think you are still confused a bit about the bridged mode for an amp. I believe you are referring to being rear speakers being wired in parallel or series, not having an amp bridged."
Bridged is terminology from telco. Phone wires underground come up and may go in two directions where it's bridged. A bridge tap is where wires were connected to a line. It all greatly changes the impedance which mattered in the analog world. When digital lines were integrated into the same cable all the bridge taps were removed. Different terms for different applications. Ohms law applies to all of it the same.
The audio world sees it all from a different perspective being that power and frequency rule. I still am in awe when a amp fries wires together. Resistance is futile.
I am working to get some detailed information on the 9 speaker system. I hope the rear speakers and 1/4 panel speaker are just on one wire which tapped to the rear speakers. Must be a connector. I want a schematic of the whole audio system. Too much guessing going on.
I am going to dig into it some more tomorrow. Look for that access to the rear speaker. Disconnect it and see if it changes my install. After that I will redo the install with the speaker OEM speaker surround. I expect normal base from my Infinities. If not I will try a different speaker I have on hand. A enclosed Infinity bookshelf. If it drives it well I will use different speakers. If not there is something between the second door speaker and the HU.
Just my opinion, but you are mixing and matching a lot of variables. The Infinity bookshelf speaker will likely be an 8-ohm load, so the amp will drive it with less power. It's also properly enclosed so the bass will be defined. The Kappas are likely 4-ohm or lower so they will be sucking more power. And until you get them sealed in the door panels I wouldn't expect much bass from them at all. It just won't happen.
If what GeoGeek says about the second row door speakers and the cargo area speakers being wired in series or parallel, and I have no reason to think he is wrong, then you'll want to keep the cargo speakers in the mix with the Kappas or risk changing even more of what is happening with the system. Looking at the second row speakers you should be able to determine how the rear speakers are wired.
I knew you would catch that 8 ohm difference. Yes the Kappas are 2 ohm.
As for the book shelves, I know how they sound even at low power. Bass reproduction is what I am looking for to be certain it is not filtered out. I will give the third speakers more consideration. Thanks for the thought.
I expect after I am done the schematics will be in hand.
Plain and simple. If the Ford stock speakers played bass, then the bass is not being filtered out somewhere between the head unit and the speaker. I don't believe Ford would cut-off the bass to a 6.5 inch driver. If they did you should see something very close to the speakers and it would be unlikely they would also have bass blockers on the rear cargo area speakers.
If there is nothing near the second row door speakers and you still fear they have filtered out the bass that means it's happening inside the head unit and there is no way to add bass back into a signal once it's been removed. You would need to replace the head unit.
If your Explorer is a 2013, then it is possible that it is different from my 2016. I believe that there was a non-Sony system offered that had an outboard amplifier behind the right rear panel...my 2016 does not have that...all 9 speakers are powered directly from the factory head unit. 3rd row speakers are run in parallel with the rear door speakers. You'll want to double check that your head unit is running the 2nd and 3rd row speakers off the same channels...mine definitely is.
The third row speakers are identical to the center channel speaker (80mm, 8ohm, 12.5 watt) and the 2nd row (rear door) speakers are 6.5 inch round, whizzer cone type, 4 ohm, 25 watt. With the two run in parallel, the radio channels 3 & 4 each see a 3 ohm load...and I'm guessing puts out about 30 watts RMS. Putting your 2 ohm speaker in place of the 4 ohm factory rear door speakers makes the load the radio sees (if, in fact there is no factory amplifier) or that your amp sees (if you do have one) down....and increases the output...but may cause your radio and/or amp to run hot...if not shut down. I'd suggest figuring out if you have a factory amp first....then go from there.
I'm sure the third row speakers are safe. The rear quarter interior cover has two trays in it. One with cup holder one without. The cupholder tray wont budge. Do not want to break it. The other tray is partially free along the front and forward end but the rear and aft end will not free up without something breaking. Grrrrrrr.....
The bottom picture in the 1st frame shows the interior and trays I cannot get out in one piece.
In mine there were little inserts in the bottoms of the trays....if you pull those inserts out your can see slots that you can use a flat head screwdriver to pry out the bottom panel...I did not remove the whole cup holder assembly.
The right rear panel had the sub woofer behind it in my 2011 Limited.
I found a pic on the forum and linked it to my post. Last pic 1st frame. Drink holder and second tray. Probably different then yours.
I tested the drivers side rear door speaker supply with a nice Klipsch book shelf speaker. Granted it is 8 ohm but it sounded so much like the other mounted speaker it's remarkable. I also listened carefully to the third row speaker and its just a small version of the second row speaker. It's not just a speaker replacement to upgrade this sound. There's more going on here. The OEM speakers were weak too. To describe it's as if the front have additional gain to them. Across the spectrum.
Ahhh...I see it now. In this model the 3rd row speakers are actually in the rear pillars.....in the 2016 9-speaker system, the 3rd row speakers are actually in the panels right below the cup holders for the 3rd row passengers....they fire roughly into the hip of anyone sitting in the 3rd row. So in my 2016, it was easy to get to the wires for the 3rd row speakers by accessing the back side of them from under the cup holder/tray pop-out panels.
If your 2013 looks like the one in the pictures you referenced, then you will not be able to access the wires in the same way I did.
im new here.
got quick question.
how i can get RCA output for sub and remote for amp from stock unit
2013 expl xlt 9 speakers and nav
You have several options for the RCA's: get a line driver, get a amp that excepts speaker in-puts, get a DSP like a bit one, of Helix. Of coarse there are many other options when it comes to processors.
For the remote you can use a relay to trigger the new amp.
None of this is that hard, it just takes a little time