alignment help

4x4junkie said:

Ok, well seems your toe alignment isn't too far off then (bad toe would cause it to artificially raise or lower, affecting the camber).

7.5" is really a lot of lift though... (too much, really) I think your only choice may be to shave those spacers down some (that, or get bigger drop brackets, which would only make your steering linkage concern only that much more urgent).

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Steering is not a concern at all.its not that bad.ill post a pic with a line drawn across and its not that bad.its not flat by any means and this has been beat to death .a fa 600 will not go level unless you move your front wheels forward or run more than 5" of lift.it will bind.before lift they was a level as you can get before bind.its only about 2"off from being level.lets not turn this into a steering thread.

Maniak said:

You should build some camber plates. Just take a pair of 14"x14" pieces of sheet metal and put some bearing grease between them. Now put that combo under your tire.

Do that for both sides and now when your messing with the alignment you won't have to drive/bounce the truck around to unload the suspension. It never loads when on those plates.

~Mark

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Those pics are with it unloaded.

Sorry JD, but a side question, how hard is it to do an alignment yourself instead of a shop doing it?

jd4242 said:

Those pics are with it unloaded.

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I wasn't talking about the pics. I just meant it makes doing your own alignment easier. Well, that and a camber gauge.

~Mark

Maniak said:

I wasn't talking about the pics. I just meant it makes doing your own alignment easier. Well, that and a camber gauge.

~Mark

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O yea i got you.i was just stating this pics was unloaded.yea i really need to.now i jump on the front hitch,drive 5miles,jump on it again,drive 2.5 back home, then do my alignment.when i had adjustable bushings i used a dial gauge and a stick!!lolbeen dead on last two times

jd4242 said:

a fa 600 will not go level unless you move your front wheels forward or run more than 5" of lift.it will bind.before lift they was a level as you can get before bind.its only about 2"off from being level.lets not turn this into a steering thread.

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If you're talking about the linkages hitting each other at the pitman arm TRE, that's something that happens if your linkages aren't matched (two different brands driver & passenger), or if something's bent.
The FA600 does pull the linkage rearward (putting the parts closer), but it's completely useable even on a 4" lift (infact it's perfectly matched at 4").

Anyway, I'll leave it alone there.
I use two steel plates with metal dowels between them to relieve the binding between the tires, however the greased plates Maniak mentions should work just the same.

4x4junkie said:

If you're talking about the linkages hitting each other at the pitman arm TRE, that's something that happens if your linkages aren't matched (two different brands driver & passenger), or if something's bent.
The FA600 does pull the linkage rearward (putting the parts closer), but it's completely useable even on a 4" lift (infact it's perfectly matched at 4").

Anyway, I'll leave it alone there.
I use two steel plates with metal dowels between them to relieve the binding between the tires, however the greased plates Maniak mentions should work just the same.

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Both are brand new and same company.i had someone wrap a strap around them and drag my truck out a hole at night and stole everything out my truckim not the only one that has had the binding problem also.any rate i put the other bushing in and aligned it pretty close and drove it.after everything settled it looks good,even a little to much for 33s but my 36 should be perfect.i couldn't get the alignment perfect tho so im taking it to my buddy hopefully tomorrow to fine tune it.I've just run out of time and still have two or three more thing to do before my trip.

ill post some pics after its done.thanks for all the help guys

Ugh, thieves are one thing I can't stand! :fire:
(the law should simply allow for their hanging, shooting, or whatever else you can think of -ing lol)

Well, hope you get it all sorted out. Good luck.





01STrunner, take a look at these pages, they should give you some idea what's involved if you want to DIY.
http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/Alignment.html
http://www.therangerstation.com/Magazine/winter2008/steering_tech.htm (scroll about halfway down)

Well my buddy couldn't do it so i said screw it and took it to firestone for the lifetime alignment.it was 20% because of Veterans Day or for my birthday(same day)just like i expected i get a call 8hours later saying they couldn't get to it and would do it first thing in the morning.next morning the guy calls me and says he cant align it because the machine says i need a 3* bushing and i had 0* in it. to get the caster right he goes on to tell me i would need the 3* not 0* blqh blah blah.i then tell him it has 3.50* bushings in it not 0*!!he goes OO...you sure?he says they sure look like 0* bushings and i don't see it stamped on there.i said its stamped on the bottom.so i then ask him if the machine is telling me i need more or less degrees than i have and he say "idk just said you needed a 3*" i say need to know if it needs a bushing equal to 3* or a bushing that's labeled 3* but equals 1.75* on 4x4 model ,he says well let me go enter into the machine you have 3.50*(which i told him three times it equals 2.75*) and adjust toe and see what it says.

two hours later he calls back and says its good to go.i go pick it up and drive it out the parking lot and about 50ft.i stop turn around and took it right back.it drove exactly the same if not worse and didnt have a tenth of a mile more on the odometer.i go in and ask have you drove this truck???he said no... i then ask what he did to it and said "just adjusted the toe,couldn't figure out how to do the ccamber or caster". I ABOUT JUMPED OVER THE COUNTER AND SMACKED THE **** OUT OF HIM!!manger came out and said he would drive it first thing this morning and do whatever it needed to get fixed.i said you have till the end of Tuesday to get it right or i want a refund!!

i have to drive this truck 4hours into the mountains for our 4x4 trip in two days!!i sure hope the get it right TODAY!!why i don't take my truck anywhere

Well the manger just called me back and said"i really apologize but the two guys here doing alignments cant figure out how to do it so i pulled them off from it,my experienced veteran tech is on vacation for the last 5 days for Veterans Day weekend.he will be back Wednesday morning at 7am and i 100% guarantee he can have it done in less than 30mins.he has experience with altered suspension vehicles"""i told him he has till 10:00am or he will be refunding my money.he says i guarantee it will be done.

Frustrating. It's not rocket science... Hopefully the experienced fellow will fix you up.

It'll never align

You're in my world now.

Even if you get it all lined up, towed straight on level ground, any tiny move will send you all over the road. Mine looked like that before I did the steering mod. It's virtually undrivable over 15mph? If so, you've reached the threshold of lift + stock steering + FA600.

When you accelerate, the front end lifts? Tows in harder as you move forward? Jerks the wheel side to side? That's exerting pressure on your pitman arm and steering box shaft. I'll bet it'll break eventually.

If you brake, the wheels tow out hard? Squats?

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2874959&postcount=58

RustySJohnson said:

You're in my world now.

Even if you get it all lined up, towed straight on level ground, any tiny move will send you all over the road. Mine looked like that before I did the steering mod. It's virtually undrivable over 15mph? If so, you've reached the threshold of lift + stock steering + FA600.

When you accelerate, the front end lifts? Tows in harder as you move forward? Jerks the wheel side to side? That's exerting pressure on your pitman arm and steering box shaft. I'll bet it'll break eventually.

If you brake, the wheels tow out hard? Squats?

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2874959&postcount=58

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Naww i have 5.5 drop brackets and those pics of mine was with 1.75* in it.i put 3.50* in it and from what im getting is that one side needs a 3* not 3.50.it should be able to be aligned.i could have done it in my garage by now!

RustySJohnson said:

You're in my world now.

Even if you get it all lined up, towed straight on level ground, any tiny move will send you all over the road. Mine looked like that before I did the steering mod. It's virtually undrivable over 15mph? If so, you've reached the threshold of lift + stock steering + FA600.

When you accelerate, the front end lifts? Tows in harder as you move forward? Jerks the wheel side to side? That's exerting pressure on your pitman arm and steering box shaft. I'll bet it'll break eventually.

If you brake, the wheels tow out hard? Squats?

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2874959&postcount=58

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But yes i have a ton of flex and tq.but not from newly added lift,had that before sc but now i can al most lift the passenger tire off the ground.my shocks are way to short in the front.im going to the jd dual setup very soon,have their arms now.

Tow affecting the alignment

jd4242 said:

But yes i have a ton of flex and tq.but not from newly added lift,had that before sc but now i can al most lift the passenger tire off the ground.my shocks are way to short in the front.im going to the jd dual setup very soon,have their arms now.

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I'm not sure I'm clear. Did you lift another 1-2", had it aligned, and it's not right?

RustySJohnson said:

I'm not sure I'm clear. Did you lift another 1-2", had it aligned, and it's not right?

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Yes but he did not align it.he said he couldn't figure out how the caster and camber worked.the manger pulled him off it till the experience vet came back.

Steering linkage

I don't want to keep harping on it, but I must ask. Does the steering linkage look straighter than the ones in my picture? Can you post one?

I went from a lift of 4" + spacers (5) to 8" + spacers (9.25) with the FA600, it was undrivable no matter what I did. At 5 it wasn't bad even when the linkage wasn't straight, the picture I posted was after the larger lift.

Like you, I do my own alignment in the garage with an incline gauge, tape measure, plumb-bob, tow plates, and two pieces of sheet metal sandwiching BB's. I aligned, test drove, aligned, test drove...... It was fine static, but if I turned, the tires scrubbed. If I accelerated, braked, or turned, it was hosed. Even if you get the caster/camber right, it'll change.

I'm betting you've reached that point. I could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time. I just don't think the outcome with be good.

RustySJohnson said:

I don't want to keep harping on it, but I must ask. Does the steering linkage look straighter than the ones in my picture? Can you post one?

I went from a lift of 4" + spacers (5) to 8" + spacers (9.25) with the FA600, it was undrivable no matter what I did. At 5 it wasn't bad even when the linkage wasn't straight, the picture I posted was after the larger lift.

Like you, I do my own alignment in the garage with an incline gauge, tape measure, plumb-bob, tow plates, and two pieces of sheet metal sandwiching BB's. I aligned, test drove, aligned, test drove...... It was fine static, but if I turned, the tires scrubbed. If I accelerated, braked, or turned, it was hosed. Even if you get the caster/camber right, it'll change.

I'm betting you've reach that point. I could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time. I just don't think the outcome with be good.

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Im very close to the limit im sure.we will know in the hour.i have sagged 5.5 superlift coils with f150 seats,ruffly 7" of lift.what size drop brackets was you running?sure it doesn't matter with 9.25" of lift even if you have 5.5 drop brackets.that's alot!!my steering is not that un level.it was worse with the fa400 and 5.5 lift.if i drew a straight line across from tire to tire the center joint would be about 3" above the the straight line.i have seen WAY WAY worse and have driven in way way worse

jd4242 said:

what size drop brackets was you running?sure it doesn't matter with 9.25" of lift even if you have 5.5 drop brackets.that's alot!!

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If my memory serves me right, the drop brackets for the radius arms are the same for the 4" and 8" kits. I was a bit surprised about that. Thought there was some mix-up, but the angle of those radius arms have to stay in sync with the angles of the driveshafts and steering.

You're Caster angles will increase substantially, not a hube problem and it may be a little "Drifty", but it wont pull to either side because of that. The road and steering inputs will make the tow unmanageable. You're our guinea pig of where to draw the line. I jumped over that line.

RustySJohnson said:

If my memory serves me right, the drop brackets for the radius arms are the same for the 4" and 8" kits. I was a bit surprised about that. Thought there was some mix-up, but the angle of those radius arms have to stay in sync with the angles of the driveshafts and steering.

You're Caster angles will increase substantially, not a hube problem and it may be a little "Drifty", but it wont pull to either side because of that. The road and steering inputs will make the tow unmanageable. You're our guinea pig of where to draw the line. I jumped over that line.

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Most kits come with a 4" hole and a 6" hole.im up here now.he called earlier and said i needed a true 3* bushing.he ordered a adjustable 0-4* bushing(0-3*4x4)i thought the 3.50*(2.75*) was the largest they made?this was the original question on the first couple post.it has just arrived and he is installing it now and about to go for a drive.ill let you kno if it worked.