04 4.0 Problems, HELP!!!

[dsmskyline]

I have a 04 XLT with the 4.0 v6. Have owned it for just over a year, has approx 130K miles on it (30k+ from me). Truck has always had a slightly rough idle when sitting at a light or in a drive through.

Plugs have been changed, wires have been changed, and new fuel filter a couple months ago when I got sick of the rough idle. It seems as if it has a bad motor mount, all seem to be fine and no signs of tears or cracks.

About 3 weeks ago I did a seafoam treatment per a recommendation from a buddy of mine, only used about 4oz as I didnt want to foul the plugs out. It seemed to idle better for a couple days and came back.

Now on to the new issue:

Just about an hour ago (been on searching since) I went to go to the store. Drove approximately 1/4 mile and stopped at a stop sign. No problems, turned the corner and went to speed up, it felt like I hit a brick wall. Truck started shaking real bad idling very rough, seems like a couple cylinders are firing.
There is a slight ticking sound and that is what scares me.

I had to baby it home since I was so close. Basically did it at an idle, very little throttle. When I did press on the gas, I would get a big cloud of blackish white smoke.

Check engine light is flashing and have no access to a scanner. (checker wants $300 to rent, dont have that in the bank).

Before heading to the store I had driven tthe truck with no issues, was maybe 10 minutes between getting home and heading to the store.

In my searching I found that it could either be a stuck open fuel injector flooding a cylinder or a bad FPR, also causing the engine to flood, or bad intake manifold gaskets.

The ticking sound I assume is from "piston slap" from the excess fuel in the cylinder washing the oil away.

There has been no cooalnt loss, no overheating, no other signs of head gasket.

The oil doesnt smell like fuel or seem milky at all.

Im at my wits end on this and need the truck for work.

Please help,
Thomas

 

[dsmskyline]

Quick update,
Just pulled the plugs to see what they looked like. All 6 were covered in fuel, 1 was also covered in oil.

From past experience ive learned to do compression checks when trying to diagnose an issue like this. 5 of the cylinders had 210psi(give or take 1-2psi) and 1 I couldnt get a reading. Thought maybe I didnt have the hose screwed in correctly so I removed it and tried again, same result. The other 5 cylinders could be heard durring the compression stroke, this one you could not.

The has always, since Ive owned it had a very slight tick, per my experience of past cars, sometimes lifters just tick for no apparent reason.

I think this may be my issue. Tomorrow when I get home from work, I guess I will start the adventure of removing the valve cover. My luck, it is the one on the drivers side, cylinder 6 to be exact. I now have to remove my intake manifold to remove the valve cover unless there is another way I didnt see in my 5 seconds of looking before I slammed the hood shut.

Im hoping for a collapsed lifter or something of that nature but not sure, never really worked on a ford before. I guess its time to start learning.

Any input on this would be greatly appreciated.

Thomas

 

[Tenderfoot]

Quick update,
Just pulled the plugs to see what they looked like. All 6 were covered in fuel, 1 was also covered in oil.

From past experience ive learned to do compression checks when trying to diagnose an issue like this. 5 of the cylinders had 210psi(give or take 1-2psi) and 1 I couldnt get a reading. Thought maybe I didnt have the hose screwed in correctly so I removed it and tried again, same result. The other 5 cylinders could be heard durring the compression stroke, this one you could not.

The has always, since Ive owned it had a very slight tick, per my experience of past cars, sometimes lifters just tick for no apparent reason.

I think this may be my issue. Tomorrow when I get home from work, I guess I will start the adventure of removing the valve cover. My luck, it is the one on the drivers side, cylinder 6 to be exact. I now have to remove my intake manifold to remove the valve cover unless there is another way I didnt see in my 5 seconds of looking before I slammed the hood shut.

Im hoping for a collapsed lifter or something of that nature but not sure, never really worked on a ford before. I guess its time to start learning.

Any input on this would be greatly appreciated.

Thomas

maybe it's something simple like timing is off ? I once had a vehicle that had issues and turned out the timing belt stretched and skipped a few cogs and it was way off..got backfire and raw gas smell...all I needed was a new timing belt.

 

[dsmskyline]

Ive had issues like that myself with a Mitsubishi race car I had. Belt stretched and smashed a bunch of valves.

Thankfully Ford used a timing chain instead of a belt so chances of stretching and slipping are much slimmer.

Also, if that was the case all 3 of the cylinders on that side would be affected, not just the one.

Either way I have to tear into this thing to find out exactly the issue is. My new list of possibilities is now a little different:

Lifter
Rocker
Rings
Valves

Im really hoping it is either a collapsed lifter or a rocker fell off(possible if too loose).
if its the rings or valves Im not sure what Im going to do. These are the times I wish I believed in credit cards(evil little things).

Those are the only things I can think of right now that would cause it to have no compression in just 1 cylinder.

Thanks,
Thomas

 

[dsmskyline]

Update again....

Just came in from pulling the valve cover and I dont think it is good news...

Like I originally though, the rocker came off the lifter, but there is much more.

The intake valve spring was broke in 2, me nor my dad or anyone Ive spoken to about this has seen this happen before (not on a stock, non race motor anyway).

I called the service manager at my local Ford dealer and he said the good news is that the SOHC is a non-interference motor. im my mind Im jumping for joy and asked to be transfeed to the parts department to get a new spring. Detroit special order... damn, be here Monday or Tuesday, no big deal.

I start thinking more and wonder why the valve didnt fall into the cylinder being the retainer and keepers fell off. I stuck a pair of vice grips on the end and try to move the valve, nothing... wont go up or down. I grab my tool for doing valves while the head is on (the type that uses compresssed air to hold the valve shut) and rotate the motor so the exhaust valve is shut and hit the air, just blows out of the intake port on the head (manifold is off for valve cover removal).

Now it looks like I have only a couple choices.

-Pull the head and have a new valve put in, cheapest way, valve is $16, spring is $4.50 and my local Napa charges $40 to do head work. That would put me at $60.50 plus the intake, valve cover, and headgaskets. Only downside is I have to mess with the timing chain. Been there and done that several times on DOHC 4 cylinders, never on a v6. That adds the price of the OTC tools, and any parts for the timing I replace.

-Other option is to find a motor at a local junk yard. I found one that has 47k miles on it, just under 1/3 of what the current one has for $800 with a 90 day warranty.

Not sure what to do at this point, Need the truck for work. Sucks to have a vehicle with a car note on it sitting in the driveway broke down.

I think at this point Im going to see if I can rent the OTC tools locally and go from there.

Thomas

 

[toms04explorer]

Hi Thomas..

Thanks for the link to your thread..the only thing thats different with your problem as to mine is the white smoke you have...thats usually a blown head gasket..white smoke is the coolant burning off?...the upper intake we have on the 4.0 is fairly easy to remove..I was real scared at first..but when I started..it just got easier..the ***** is the rear screw of the intake closest to the firewall..you need #30 torx bit..and a 6 inch extension..the screw cannot be seen so its a touchy feely process for that one screw..but it can be done..I changed all my intake gaskets thinking that was the problem..but it wasnt...puttung it back together was a snap..just make sure you use black tape to hold the screw on the torx head to hold it in place as you guide them in, The EGR valve.. (after removing the screws) is also difficult to remove or seperate from the intake..just twist and bend..and use muscle..it will come out..there is a almost 90' bend at the end of the tube that shoots the air back into the intake..I cut off about an 3/4 of an inch..made it alot easier to put back on..you also might want to remove one bolt that hold the fuel injector rail neares to the rear pass. side in the intake..that bolts messes with the brand new gasket you put it.. good luck...

 

[dsmskyline]

Thanks for the info,
I removed the tube going from the exhaust manifold into the EGR and left the EGR mounted to the intake. Found it a little easier that way.

I decided to order the new valve, spring, and valve guide and will take it to the machine shop Monday when all the parts show up. I talked to the guy at the machine shop and he is only going to charge me $10 to do it. If he had to disassemble more of the head it would be more.

There is a guy here in phoenix that had the OTC tools for doing the timing. Im trying to get ahold of him to see if I can rent the tools from him to do the job.

All total including the head work Im only going to spend about $60, not including the tools. A little better than $850 for a used motor.

Thomas

 

[toms04explorer]

Good for you!..did you take off the head? ....Ford said it was the # 6 cylinder that was dead..I hope that its the case after I remove it..

 

[rrgone]

Thanks for the info,
I removed the tube going from the exhaust manifold into the EGR and left the EGR mounted to the intake. Found it a little easier that way.

I decided to order the new valve, spring, and valve guide and will take it to the machine shop Monday when all the parts show up. I talked to the guy at the machine shop and he is only going to charge me $10 to do it. If he had to disassemble more of the head it would be more.

There is a guy here in phoenix that had the OTC tools for doing the timing. Im trying to get ahold of him to see if I can rent the tools from him to do the job.

All total including the head work Im only going to spend about $60, not including the tools. A little better than $850 for a used motor.

Thomas

Hey man, are you working outside or do you have a shop or garage? It's too bloody hot out for me right now!

If you can get a few pictures of your work and post them that will undoubtedly help someone out down the road here. Thanks for keeping us posted on your progress. Good luck.

 

[toms04explorer]

yeah it was in my garage..but I moved it out, got another truck coming from up north....Ill work on it on my spare time..and learn in the proccess..If I could remove this head..than a 5.0 head on my 91 notch mustang will be a cakewalk..talk about heat?..im in s. florida!!!..I will be posting pics..

 

[dsmskyline]

Working in the driveway! I have too much stuff to park in the garage, plus Im getting ready to move so I have a bunch of boxes in there.

Ill snap some pictures of how it sits right now and will take pictures of the carnage once I get the head off.

I wanted to make sure I could get the parts in a timely manner before tearing too far into it.

Thomas

 

[toms04explorer]

good luck....I have the chiltons book...let me know if you need me to look anything up....oh..how do you post pics on this thread?..the "insert image" icon does nothing but make a funny noise..

 

[dsmskyline]

Well, I havent pulled the head yet. Ive been a little apprehensive, I dont really want to have to redo the timing on the entire thing if I dont have to. It looks as if I may be able to mark the cam, gear and chain and just make sure everything is lined up when I put it back together.

I want to verify I understand how ford did the timing chains on this, there is 1 chain going from the crank to a jackshaft where the pushrod motor would have a camshaft, and 2 chains come off the jackshaft, 1 to each head, is that correct? I bought a chiltons and thats how it looks to me.

All 3 chains are at the front of the engine correct? I know the left, drivers side is, and thats all I am worried about right now.

I found a great guy locally that is going to lend me his OTC 6488 tool.

Thomas

 

[toms04explorer]

yeah thats how it looks in the book....and the reason there is no way in hell im going to attempt removing the head.....good luck..let me know how it goes..

 

[dsmskyline]

Sorry for the lack of updates.
Here are a couple pictures:

Something is missing here...

This is not a 2 piece spring from the factory...

Had to make my own timing marks on the cam gear...

Head removed, can see where valve smacked the piston...

This is supposed to be straight...

I got the head from the machine shop, $60 when i was told about $10 max $35.
Got the head back on, cam in, all the timing marks I put on before I removed the head all lined up, when to put the tensioner back in and the plastic tab snapped off.
Went to the dealer to get a new left timing cassette($106) and it is on back order until 9/15/09, over a month away!

This thing is becoming a pain... everday there is something new. When I pulled the head off I found that the harmonic balancer was shot, will sping by hand....

Thomas

 

[toms04explorer]

Wow...looks like you'll get it done though...I'll be towing mine tomorrow..

 

[redemn93]

make sure that piston will hold compression and not too thin that it will make a hole soon. also make sure there are no high places left from the damage that will hit the new valve. that may not be an issue since i dont know what the space to the valve is at TDC for that piston. looks like you are getting it though. good job.

 

[dsmskyline]

I was told by the ford dealership that this is a non interference engine. The service tech said there is something like 5mm of space when the valve is open 100% and the piston is at TDC.

I got the truck all put back together friday, started it up and it runs like crap. I put the OTC tools on and made sure the left cam(the only one I took out) was timed to the crank.

Is it possible that the cam is 180* out?

It seems that the tool can be put on either way. I know the one piece that goes into the cam can only go one one way but it can be put in the holder either way and the guy I borrowed the tool from had them seperated and the instructions doesnt specify how it goes.

Could it be possible that the right side timing could be off even though it wasnt touched?

Im going to pull it apart and replace the left cassette with new parts so I know I will have to retime the entire motor again.

Thomas

 

[dsmskyline]

Got another update....

Pulled the head due to lack of compression. Found the intake valve(the one replaced) was stuck open for some reason. After pulling the head off I found a piece of the old valve guide stuck between the valve and the valve seat. There was 3 pieces total removed from the intake port of the head. They were all stuck until I opened the valve to remove the one between the valve and head.

After I found that I decided I would remove the left cassette so I could have everything disassembled when I get a head to put on the motor. When I removed the front cover I found that the tensioner for the main chain was broken.

It seems to be a never ending saga.

I will be contacting the machine shop that did the work to the head to see about getting my money back and compensation for the hassle. If he refuses he will hear from my lawyer, I'm done playing games with this guy. It was bad enough he charges me twice what he originally quoted but to then do a bad job and possibly ruin a head, thats just ridiculous.

Parts and labor he is looking close to $400, when I paid him $70 for the work. I hope next time he pays a little closer attention to what he does.

I have another head that I am going to be dropping off at a different machine shop to have the valves ground to make sure they seal properly.


I will keep you updated with any other fun!

I have pictures, just need to stop being lazy(hahaha, if only I had the time to be) to upload them.

Thomas

 

[julianadriaans]

Hi Tom

How do you remove the left head? any idea's? I do not have a Haynes or Chiltons guide.

Julian