1995 Explorer Sport with 5 speed M50D driving me crazy!

[Tedybear]

Okay,

Been fighting with this for a while. We have the shift rebuild kit installed, as we felt the upper bushings where bad. It was actually in good shape, but we did it anyway.

The issue is one of the shifting. When stone cold it seems to be shifting normally. Fairly smooth, not 'buttery smooth', but it's got 234k on the clock. I don't expect buttery smooth considering the age and mileage. When it hot and after it's been driven, things go downhill. Getting it into reverse? I've actually been shutting the truck off. It gear grinds a lot. First and 2nd gear (and likely 3-5....I'm a bit of a heavy handed shift type...otherwise I wouldn't go anywhere) 1st and 2nd gear it's extremely hard. Sadly I can't let it cool off between shifts.

I've long suspected air trapped in the system. I've bleed it out several times. Each time it seems to improve, but the issues return a short time later. I've watched the youtube videos done by a clutch company that showed how to get the air pockets out of that crap design master cylinder. I've attached the photos and a video (taken while the truck was stone cold). I can't of course let the truck cool down between shifts...

I've resigned myself that I'll need to replace the master cylinder and the clutch line. The release for the line is totally mangled. I've tried using the tool to release it. I attempted using the screw driver trick. I stopped due to the damage that was already done to it. When I looked at that high def photos on the big screen, I can see where the last owner used vice grips on it-The ridge of plastic that the tool was supposed to press in? Managed beyond any thing I've expected.

Planned is a trip to pick and pull for another clutch line and master cylinder. While they do not have any 4x4 rangers with the 4.0- The masters and line will be the same. This is more of a proof of concept as I'll have to figure out how to extract that line from the slave, and I think the master cylinder is allowing air to bleed into the system. It's pretty cheap at the yard, and if I need to replace the clutch itself? Then I will likely spend the $$ on the entire system brand new. (master, line, slave, clutch, etc....)

Please look over the video (that shows the range of motion the slave has when cold....) A photo of what was removed when I nailed this thing Crazy hard with a vacuum pump to pressure bleed the left over DOT-3 fluid out. Black DOT-3 wasn't what I was expecting. It also had tiny black specks in the fluid that my wife pointed out. So I think something, seal perhaps? Is grinding itself down. And a photo of the wasted line connector. (again, the vice grip marks are not mine!!, nor is the extreme damage to the connector.)



(video of the clutch slave action)


Ideas and suggestions are most welcome.

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[Tedybear]

As a side note: I also work on a different forum and have posted this as well. The more ideas and feedback I can get? The better chances that I can figure out this annoying bugger of an issue.

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[Tedybear]

Bump.....No ideas?

Friend of mine suggested seal break down either in the master or slave---or both. (due to the fluid being black as pitch) If that replacement master cyc. and line do not correct the issue, I'll park it and drop the transmission and transfer case as a complete unit. If I go that deep into it? I'll just replace the whole kitten'caboodly... just concerned about how to get that pilot bearing out and replaced....not looking forward to it.

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[RangerX]

I'll throw in my two cents.
It's almost always the slave. Possibly it just needs proper bleeding, and that's always worth a try or three because it's free.
Possibly the other guy screwed up the seal at the mangled connection and it has a tiny air leak there? But then you would probably see fluid leaking...

 

[Explodr94]

FYI, when you bleed the system, you have to take the tube out of the firewall and hold it at a 90 degree angle. to get all the air out of the system. I forget what it's called.

 

[Tedybear]

That would be the very poor designed master cylinder for the clutch. Long tube which they pointed downwards for some daft reason. We did remove it and tilted it upwards as well. I'm confident the air is all bleed out. I think the issue could be either that slave, or the check valve in the master cylinder. I'll be hitting the local pick and pull to see if I can snag that line and master. I need a few more items as well. negative battery cable (ours is crusty where it connects to the bell housing.) The EGR vacuum line snapped when we removed the master (large hands....not a lot of space and I slipped.)

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[Tedybear]

Basics:

1995 Ford Explorer Sport
Manual Shift M50D-R1

Pretty much all stock.

Problem we have had (or look at the other post thread):

Clutch is very quirky. Transmission shifts into first and second gear hard at times...buttery soft at others. Shift "Ball" updated (old one wasn't that bad) Fresh fluid (old fluid came out with a heavy gray appearance)

Reverse was grinding. Had to shut engine off-shift into reverse-and then go. First gear/second gear also hard when this started acting up.

Bleed clutch. Problem improved slightly, but returned. Spent a few bucks at the P&P yard and snagged up a master with low(er) miles. Bench bleed it out and the line. 100% NO air. Clutch worked decent for about 2 weeks...and then problems came back.

So we pulled the master and line again....Re-did the bench bleeding. TONS of air pockets!....Reinstalled and bleed the slave out. Worked decent for about 2 weeks...and right back to grinding in reverse, and 1st and 2nd gear? I can hear a "Thump" when trying to get it into gear. Like it's bumping into the sync...and 'bumping'.

Considering this has extreme high mileage (about 250k). And all the issues when getting it into gear-even when the clutch is working okay? I decided to pull another M50D-R1HD for it. Found only 1 in an 1998 Explorer 4 door. Pulled the shift arm as well, due to the mount being different.

I inspected the clutch disc and pressure plate. (LUK brand). Flywheel as well. Flywheel had 2 score marks on the surface, as well the pressure plate. Disc was about 70% remaining, but I could tell it was heated up.

In the interest of disclosing stuff. I do postings on a ranger forum as well. I know the M50D-R1HD will work in this application, just need to get a 1995 slave and ditch the 1998 one. There's also a mounting hole that won't get used.

That's the back ground stuff.

Questions:

I use Rock Auto for most parts. Can anyone recommend a decent clutch kit? The "El Cheapo'" kit shows it won't work on a 1998 M50D-R1HD. But the next one up on the list? Shows it will work for most (if not all) of the 1990's. I'm weary of the LUK Brand..just because it looked cheap and weak.

Slave cylinder. I know these are problematic. It was suggested to get the one for the 1995, so it would mate up with the master line. Which I'm okay with using the junk yard master for the time being. We can bleed it out again and change it later on if needed. The slave NEEDS to be a new one! Any recommendations on a good slave cylinder?

General questions:

What's the deal with the upper bolt on the starter. The junk yard bolt was seized, and hard as it gets to put a wrench or socket on that stink weed. Suggestions?

Exhaust: Shop guide states to drop the exhaust. The yard sliced the pipes off just past the manifold. So that wasn't an issue. Does the exhaust have to be dropped? Or can this be 'wangled' around and come in and out.

This is a long term project at this point. I had to jump my budget by more then I had. M50D-R1's that are 4wd and for a 4.0 engine are extremely rare and damn near impossible to locate. That and the P&P yard jumped the cost on transmissions from 80 bucks to 95 and bumped the core from 20 to 35. The one from the donor truck? I ran the shift though the gears. It was a bit notchy and such. However it also didn't have any fluid in it. They drained it. I'm fairly confident once it's serviced and given some TLC that it should be okay.

Considering the one that's in the truck has beaten to a pulp sync gears....This one should be am improvement.

Okay, that's the story. After all of that? Really just need some recommendations on the Slave, Clutch Kit, Pressure Plate. And a hint or two about the upper starter bolt, and the exhaust being removed or left in place.

Thanks!

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[gmanpaint]

I would just bite the bullet, and pull the trans, and replace it all with new, and be done with it.

I bench bleed the master by using a 6' post. Using bailing wire to hold the reservoir up high, and pulling the entire line as far as it will go straight down. After securing the bottom of the line with more wire, I fill the reservoir, and begin to bleed it by hand. As mentioned, bleed it until you can't push in anymore. (Make sure the little black O ring is in place on the line connector.)

The fluids turn black from degradation. Moisture, and or heat breaks it down. When it is black, it loses it's properties to do as intended, and that alone will cause the hydro system to fail or have issues. I gravity bleed mine once a year to replace the fluids, in both the clutch, and brake systems. They need to stay clear in color.

 

[gmanpaint]

Centerforce has a few options for 4.0L clutches. https://www.summitracing.com/search...s/make/ford/model/ranger/engine-size/4-0l-245

Use a few long extensions, and get to the upper starter bolt from the front of the truck. I use a 13mm wobble socket, and 3- 10" extensions.

 

[Zachary Beck]

I would just bite the bullet, and pull the trans, and replace it all with new, and be done with it.

I bench bleed the master by using a 6' post. Using bailing wire to hold the reservoir up high, and pulling the entire line as far as it will go straight down. After securing the bottom of the line with more wire, I fill the reservoir, and begin to bleed it by hand. As mentioned, bleed it until you can't push in anymore. (Make sure the little black O ring is in place on the line connector.)

The fluids turn black from degradation. Moisture, and or heat breaks it down. When it is black, it loses it's properties to do as intended, and that alone will cause the hydro system to fail or have issues. I gravity bleed mine once a year to replace the fluids, in both the clutch, and brake systems. They need to stay clear in color.

You seem pretty knowledgable on this topic so I have a couple of questions... Do you know why the line that runs from the mc to slave has so many twists and bends? The way it's designed seems kinda retarded for a hydraulic system as air gets caught in those tight bends.. Why doesn't the line run straight to the slave instead of going down, then back up, and down again. And I'm really curious why the bleeder nipple swivels side-to-side.. Recessed into the tranny so it's difficult to attach a tube and open the bleed screw, along with it swiveling when you apply pressure to attach tube.

 

[boominXplorer]

How much can you push the pedal down before you get any movement at the clutch? If it's pretty instant you got all of the air out but if it gets weak when hot that slave is probably breaking down.

I have seen a pilot bearing go and cause about all your same issues though except getting into 2nd. It was hard to get into 1st or R unless the idle was low or car was cold. The bearing was completely toast and was basically powdered metal which surprised me because I never heard any crazy noises.

I would pull the trans, replace all clutch parts and keep it moving. I have a feeling any way you look at it the trans needs to come out.

 

[jd4242]

Hook a vacuum to the rubber line that goes to the Reservoir,if you keep getting bubbles you have a leak...

 

[Gadget X]

As far as the exhaust is concerned, I have never removed mine, and have swapped out the tranny five or six times now, the last time was when I changed everything over to the M5OD-R1HD from a 99. I have been able to wrangle it around the exhaust each time, but it is NOT fun!

 

[Turdle]

I took the liberty of merging the 2 OP threads since it was the same topic.

 

[Tedybear]

I took the liberty of merging the 2 OP threads since it was the same topic.

Thanks Turdle! I was going to request the other one get deleted or merged but ran out of time this morning.


Okay...That being said: Update with a heavy dose of reality and disappointment mixed in.

Went to check the replacement one this morning. Rear output shaft. Bearings good. Minor F/B play, but acceptable.

Was going to dump 1/2 qt of Mercon into it and slosh it around to see if any metal chunks came would come out the drain. Didn't make it that far. Grabbed hold of the input shaft and checked it for play. F/B play minor.

U/D play? Excessive. I pulled the input shaft up/down and left/right and had about 1/4" of play in all directions. Pushing it in/out was fine. less then a mm. I gave it a spin, and could feel and hear bearing rumble. Spent a bit of time kicking myself for not checking in the yard before we purchased it, but being tired and sore working on gravel for a longgggg time... Just wanted to take it and go.


So yeah... Good thing this was merged. LOL. I took the M50D-R1HD back to the yard today and got the money back. The guy doing the refund was a bit of an arse. "Well there's a lesson for ya" he said.

Back to sq. 1. I told the wife. Ours has higher mileage and will likely need the input bearings replaced as well. Key point being: Why spend $100 for a 'good used' transmission. Only to need to spend money on parts to make it work correctly. The yard doesn't care, they won't refund the parts needed to make it work.

Off the soap box I go. I'll get mine dropped in a week or two and make my shopping list for parts needed to restore the one we have.

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[Tedybear]

As far as the exhaust is concerned, I have never removed mine, and have swapped out the tranny five or six times now, the last time was when I changed everything over to the M5OD-R1HD from a 99. I have been able to wrangle it around the exhaust each time, but it is NOT fun!

Great..... I have a transmission adapter for my floor jack. Planning on yanking the transfer case off of it before we do any of this to remove the weight off the back. I'll give the Y-Pipe flange bolts a look to see if they would play nice--or if they are a rusted hulk. Ideally yanking that pipe off would give a lot of room it seems. We do have exhaust leaks to contend with. (And a missing flange at the converter with a very unique repair job. LOL)

Might be a good excuse to address everything at once.... One things 100%. I'm spending some $$ on a quality slave! I've been reading horror stories about that design. Seems going cheap=replacement every couple of years....

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[RangerX]

Quality slave = Ford part.

 

[Tedybear]

Well that rated a 9/10 for being a PITA.

Attempted to remove the exhaust pipe. I can safely say that ain't happening anytime soon. Nailed it with more PB then I care to admit, and even the larger impact didn't even make a dent in it.

When the transmission goes back into the ol' girl- We will be pulling the converter pipe to muffler and pulling it down. Between that and hammering up on the body weld area to flatten just above the bell housing we should have enough room to twist-o-fit it back in place.

As for what we found: PO did in fact replace the clutch disc (LUK Brand) at some point. Now if he had changed out the pressure plate and flywheel? Along with the slave...Then I wouldn't be sitting here with a huge impact mark on my favorite finger (transfer case blood sacrifice).

Flywheel: Two score marks and part of the surface area looked like (can't spell it...but harringbone pattern?) Looked like the clutch was 'chattering' a bit. Probably when it wasn't fully disengaged.

Slave cylinder: Old and crusty looking. Throw out bearing looked and rotated like a "throw up" bearing. Extreme notch feeling when rotated-Just felt really rough.

Pressure plate: Couldn't find a brand name. I did see what looked like some of the fingers where 'lower' in the alignment then others. Also a bit crusty.

Pilot bearing and input shaft: Actually in GOOD shape? But the pilot will get replaced anyway. Let's see....hammer, bread......ham....cheese.... I'll bring extra bread <G>

All in all everything is out. Wish I had the parts to put back into it now, but I needed to eval what was going on first and make a 'shopping list'. Which is pretty much everything..

Any hints or tips for the re-assembly would be very welcome. But for the moment me and my crushed finger are getting dinner and then aspirin.

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[RangerX]

Sounds like you found the problem(s)!
See if you can find a Timken brand pilot bearing. May as well put a quality piece in there while you can.

 

[Tedybear]

Sounds like you found the problem(s)!
See if you can find a Timken brand pilot bearing. May as well put a quality piece in there while you can.

Problems yes!.....Biggest problem will be putting that transmission back in without removing that cursed exhaust 'y' pipe. Now that will be a challenge!

Still can't believe that pressure plate had several bent fingers...crust build up...score marks.... All the while it had a new(er) clutch disc?

Wife wanted to ask if we could save the expense and reuse the flywheel. It's pretty cheap at RockAuto for even the budget one (which has to be better then the mess we have installed.)

I'll take any ideas on removing that lame 'Y' pipe! We've been soaking it down with pent. oil (and will do so for the next few days) Won't be able to address anything else until my next day off (Sunday). Still awaiting an expense check from work to afford the parts. Clutch kit itself isn't that bad, Wondering if that "Brute Force" for a slave would be worth it. Seems to be that "perfection clutch" style slave. Love to go with MotorCraft itself, but money is quickly drying up. Still need to order in the timing belt/waterpump kit for the VW in a few weeks, as well a set of tires.

Ah well. At least it's apart. That's 1/3 of the problem (parts ordering and receiving 1/3.....reassembly the last 1/3) You want more? Okay. 3/3rds pain management for smashed fingers....


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