3/8 impact gun vs tsb??

[mes882]

I know lots of info on here about the 4.6L spark plugs. I am getting ready to brave that dreaded plug change and have everything I should need. Thanks to this forum. 07 with 60000 miles 4.6l.

My question is I know people who follow the service bulletin. Then there are some who get the engine hot and zip them out with 3/8 impact gun. What is the better way?? I cant decide which way I want to do it.

I been thinking about taking coil off spraying with penetrating oil. Let it sit over night. Then Use ratchet and back plugs off 1/8 of turn. Then penetrating oil again and sit over night. Use 3/8 impact to remove the plugs the rest of the way. What do you guys think??

I was also wounding if any one has used marvel mystery oil for this as a penetrating oil. I have used it on rusted nuts and bolt before with good success

 

[Bill MacLeod]

IMO, follow the latest TSB. Do not deviate.

I changed mine 2 years ago (didn't break any) and pulled them 1 year ago to reapply anti-seize and will do it again in a month or so.

Ford carb cleaner softens the carbon deposits on the sleeve of the plugs and lubricates the threads at the same time. Don't overuse, excessive use could hydro-lock the engine.

One local Ford dealer does a De-carb then removes them with an impact. Just heard on a 5.4 Navigator that they broke 3 of 8 plugs. When this happens, they call in a secialist to remove the broken pieces. One he could not remove and the head was pulled. Some sucker just got screwed for a huge repair bill.

Use a torque wrench set to 33 ftlb and got slowly back and forth, 1/8 to 1/4turn at a time until removed. Expect some screeching/resistance.

TSB 08-7-6 cautions in bold letters: "Do not use air or power tools for spark plug removal.Spark plugs must only be removed with hand tools."
Just my opinion.

 

[mes882]

I having a hard time believing warming up the engine to remove them. It just goes against everything I have learned about plugs and heads. A friend of mine works at a ford dealer. He says they get the motor hot and zip 4 of them out. Then drive it and get it hot again then zip out the other 4. So got me thinking. Otherwise I think I am going to follow the tsb

Do they come right out when you reapply the anti seize??

 

[jcat9]

warming the engine expands the metals and should, in theory, help them to come out.

The anti-seize should certainly make it much easier to remove them down the line.

 

[mes882]

The heads aluminum right?? Back when I worked on cars for a living which was about 15 years ago. It was you do not change plugs in a hot/warm engine. I understanding warming will expand metal. Won't the metal on the plugs expand as well?? Applying the anti seize should help but I could see that just burning off and not really do anything.

 

[jcat9]

The heads aluminum right?? Back when I worked on cars for a living which was about 15 years ago. It was you do not change plugs in a hot/warm engine. I understanding warming will expand metal. Won't the metal on the plugs expand as well?? Applying the anti seize should help but I could see that just burning off and not really do anything.

Heat or no heat seems to be a choice made by the tech doing the job. the official TSB documents say use a cold engine. The anti-seize Ford used originally was a copper based one, and they changed to a Nickel based one which I imagine is due to a higher heat tolerance and resists breakdown better.

If you look at pics of the bad plugs being removed, youll see the nasty rust looking color of the bottom shield part. That's the copper anti-seize, which due to the fact that most of the plug is exposed to the combustion chamber, heats up and seems to almost turn into a thread locker against the aluminum head.

 

[mes882]

Went to the local ford dealer to get some motorcraft carb cleaner. They don't carry it. Told him I wanted to change my plugs. This dealer makes their customers run 3 tanks of fuel with bg44k in it. Before they will even touch it. 23 bucks a can. Isn't that stuff just seafoam?? They don't use the carb cleaner. I asked how much to change them his response was 300 buck plus labor if any break. So 400 if none break with the cleaner. So went to orielys and bought some sea foam deep creep says it removes rust-varnish-carbon. First time I have ever seen this stuff. I also bought some pb blaster.

 

[Explorer_PL]

I did mine at 99k. I run sea foam on probably 7-8 tanks before that. I poured creoil into the wells and drove like that for a while.
7 came out with some issues but intact. The # 8 broke below the hex part and required drilling the head and tapping in a bushing. And I used torque wrench set to 33lbs
I do not think the sea foam helped.
I would take 8 plugs with broken electrodes that you can use Leslie tool on, over the 1 I had.

 

[bikedad]

I used to use PB Blaster for removing seized bolts and rotors and what-not. It works very well but not perfect.
I heard about this solution/mixture about 2 years ago and tried it. It works much better and faster. < 50/50 mix of 100% acetone and dextron/mercron automatic transmission fluid >
There's even a study I've seen somewhere on the interwebs showing the difference in using this solution compared to other products.
I have a V6 so I don't have the spark plug issue but wonder if this would be a possible solution?
Like I said, this mixture really works great. Just throwing it out there.


Edit: Just found this chart...

Penetrating oil Average load

None ..................... 516 pounds

WD-40 .................. 238 pounds

PB Blaster ..............214 pounds

Liquid Wrench ...... 127 pounds

Kano Kroil ............ 106 pounds

ATF-Acetone mix... 53 pounds

 

[Bill MacLeod]

I had no problem removing plugs with anti-seize on the barrel. And I had used standard type anti-seize. Did not have the nickel type at the time.

The carb cleaner liquifies/softens the carbon on the barrel. The carbon will be very wet after the carb cleaner has wicked past the threads. After the plugs had been out a couple hours, the carbon started to harden again and was a noticable redish brown in colour.

Years ago when R-12 freon was readily available, it was commonly used to "freeze" the sparkplug holes in aluminum heads, especially if hot when removing plugs. This was to prevent ripping out the threads in the heads.

And the TSB cautions not to remove plugs when the engine is warm or hot. Engine is to be at room temperature.

Ford had recommended a product called Kroil in the early TSB, then changed to the Motorcraft Carb Cleaner. Whatever you use, loosen the plug an 1/8 to 1/4 of a turn on a cold or Slightly warm engine, put about 1/4 to 1/2" of your cleaner in the plug well (to the top of the hex head of the plug) and let soak for a 1/2 hour or so. Then proceed slowly.

 

[07EddyB]

I have a hard time trusting what the TSB says about this issue. Not because I'm such a mechanical guru (I'm not) - but because I'm cynical I guess. Let's think about this for a second - everyone that gets a plug change quote from the dealer gets a disclaimer for broken plugs - that's extra cash out of your pocket buddy. If they get paid for a broken plug then why would they care if one breaks or not? What would that TSB say if Ford took the hit for broken plugs? Right now they simply don't have any skin in the game.

 

[Explorer_PL]

Yeah

I was quoted by a dealer $ 395 plus $ 150 for every broken one. But they told me "we have a guy that gets them out all in one piece".

Somehow I did not trust them. I was afraid they would call me and tell me that the whole head is messed up and I need a new one for $ 3000 plus labor, and the motor is taken apart already, and ...so on......

 

[mes882]

I agree with eddyb. The price is ridiculous to have them changed. That's why I am going to do it myself. It was either a very smart design by ford to get peoples money at the shops. Or a really dumb engineer. You are wright if Ford had to eat the cost it would be a whole different story.

 

[bovine]

I just read through this and had an idea kinda of like the r-12 but its in a can CRC Freeze-Off Super Penetrant thought it might work or help at least.

 

[ScubaSteve613]

Well I just did mine last night. Went ahead and bought the Lisle tool, can of carb cleaner, and genuine ford plugs. Got 7 of eight out no problem without using tool or cleaner. Then came the dreaded rear plug on the passenger side. I could NOT get it to turn even 1/8th of a turn. Thought about the impact gun trick but decided to just walk away from it for a day before I broke something expensive. Any tricks or solutions for seized plugs?

 

[Flag Gibby]

Yep, that sounds like the plug that has the majority of the water end up in it. Per the TSB the engine needs to be warm (not hot) and fill the bottom 1/4 of the plug well with something like PB Blaster (I have much better luck with anything that is stuck with that product than carb cleaner) let it set for about 15 min and then you should be able to slowly work it out 1/4 of a turn at a time.
Since you have all the others out or changed a this point I would just idle the car to get it warm and then go from there with getting that last plug changed. It is possible that the engine had cooled off too much by the time you got to the last plug making it harder to get out than necessary. I am glad to hear that you are being patient with it since so many times the usual response is, "ah hell, just force it out."

 

[bschnur]

What has Ford done if they break one and you have the ESP on your truck? They have to eat the cost then? Or are they just more careful if you have ESP?

 

[Explorer_PL]

Scuba -

BE VERY CAREFULL AT THIS POINT

That happened to me, my #8, the one in front of the driver would not turn at all. I used a torque wrench set to 30 ft*lbs and I still snapped the sparkplug leaving the electrode and the tread in the head. The hex part sheared of.

 

[Bill MacLeod]

Scuda - kudo's for walking away, wish I had patience like that. If this is your daily driver, no reason you can't drive it with 7 new & 1 old plug for now.

Your getting some sound advice here, as Flag Gibby mentioned he has had good luck with PB Blaster, so, what type of carb cleaner did you use?
[/B]
And Eplorer Pl also mentioned that he uses a torque wrench to loosen them, set a 30 Ft Lb. Did you actually break the seal on the plug at all, or is it frozen?[/B]

Where are you at with this "problem/opportunity" right now?

 

[ScubaSteve613]

Bill - I was using the genuine Motorcraft carb cleaner. Let it sit for about half an hour while I changed the other ones. I was unable to break the seal at all by at that point. I was definitely using more than 30 ft/lbs as I was using just a 3/8 ratchet and an old pipe which was about 12" long for extra leverage. I actually spoke to a Ford mechanic today and he told me that I may have better luck with the engine cold. It's my daily driver and seems to be just fine as it is right now. I've read quite a few good comments about the PB Blaster. May give that a try.