Bad or Burnt Exhaust smell in cabin during hard acceleration.

[peterk9]

Welcome to the Forum TheMatt.:wavey:
I don't really know what you can say to the dealer other than what you have said here. I'm guessing that they likely are aware of the lawsuit that has been filed and that the NHTSA is gathering information on the issue. Even so, given the very limited success that other dealers have had in solving this issue on earlier models, I don't really see a favourable outcome. In the meantime I'd suggest possibly keeping the acceleration under control as much as possible for the remainder of your trip.

Peter

 

[TheMatt]

Thanks for the reply peter!
I'm thinking your probably right about the unfavorable outcome. I'll probably end up renting a truck and pulling the Explorer if ford can't give me any answers. I think I saw a response about ford taking an Explorer back but I'm sure that's a long shot. I just have no desire to put a pregnant woman in that situation and sadly not accelerating on our interstates is a scary thought on its own.
I am quite surprised with GM's recent recall issues that ford isn't a bit more proactive, to avoid a similar fate. It's not that I hate the explorer. It really is a nice car. But some things are more important and not worth the risk.
-Matt

 

[peterk9]

If you plan on towing the Explorer on its own 4 wheels, be sure to read up on that in the Owner's Guide before you do. Good luck.

Peter

 

[TheMatt]

Oh no! I plan on getting a vehicle hauler trailer so it will be no wheels down on the pavement.

 

[14explorer]

For what it's worth, I played around with the co analyzer today. It works great, very sensitive and holds the high reading. I tested the cabin with no motor running....0 ppm. Ran it under the open exhaust, 118 ppm. Then, went for a drive. Cruising and normal acceleration, 0-2 ppm. Hard acceleration, 0-2 ppms in cabin, but got a high of 54 ppm from the air vents. The good thing is that it went right back to 0-2 ppms after the hard run. It's obviously pumping in some CO thru the vents but it's diluting once it enters the cabin. So, it's exhaust fumes, but not sure if I would call it lethal. Will be testing it again once the tsb is completed.

 

[BillyBoB4869]

I to am having the "rotten egg" smell when coming to a stop in my 2013 Explorer Limited. I bought mine used, so it has 40k on it.

I took mine in my local dealer, which was able to reproduce the smell but, was unable to fix it. They are currently awaiting a response from Ford on actions to take next.

I brought the "TSB 12-8-8" to them printed out (to possibly help with the troubleshooting). My local dealer thinks the two are not related, and it is exhaust gases getting into the cabin of the vehicle.

Hopefully Ford gets back to my dealer soon, my family is disgusted by the smell and hates riding in my car now. Nothing like a $30k rotten egg rolling down the road.

Local dealer stated that Ford returned to them stating it was likely a PTU leak and to replace the seal.

Took it in again today. Dealer got back to me and stated a PTU leak was not the problem. They could find any source of said leak. They would like the car for an additional amount of days. When I went to the service shop I explained to them about this thread here.

So, I guess I'll find out more next week (when ever I get my car back). I hope the Ford reps who watch this thread contact my dealer and help them out. It obvious the "advance" ford service team they contacted are not pointing them in the right direction. I don't want to screw my local ford dealer on a lemon due to Ford not stepping up to seriously look into this issue.

 

[peterk9]

Just to let you know that the Ford reps that monitor these Forums do not interface with the dealers. They are a 'go between' the owners and the regional customer service managers.

Peter

 

[karina]

Todd can you give me the dealership info?

I got a call from the Service manager yesterday with an update. The breather tube that was supposed to be connected to the PTU that was mysteriously missing was backordered and finally came in yesterday afternoon. Ford also approved a replacement of all affected exhaust components! He told me that once the repairs are completed, he was going to have the entire undercarriage steam cleaned to remove anything that shouln't be there, then have the tech test drive it, then inspect again to ensure no leaks. Finally, because I am out of town today (with my rental car), he is going to have the car detailed and waiting for me in the new car delivery area of the dealership tomorrow. How many people get to take delivery of their new car twice???!! Anyway, after I get my SilverSport back I'll give you an update with updated pictures.

Todd

I am still having the problem and my dealership swears no one else has it. I'd like to contact your dealership to see if they will fix it

 

[Toddgfd]

Hey Karina, I use South Bay Ford off the 405 at Rosecrans. They are great! Also, through this forum the monitoring Ford rep connected me to the regional service rep who then followed my case. He ultimately gave me a 3 year full complimentary service plan, so it was all worth it. Good luck!

 

[BillyBoB4869]

Local dealer stated that Ford returned to them stating it was likely a PTU leak and to replace the seal.

Took it in again today. Dealer got back to me and stated a PTU leak was not the problem. They couldn't find any source of said leak. They would like the car for an additional amount of days. When I went to the service shop I explained to them about this thread here.

So, I guess I'll find out more next week (when ever I get my car back). I hope the Ford reps who watch this thread contact my dealer and help them out. It obvious the "advance" ford service team they contacted are not pointing them in the right direction. I don't want to screw my local ford dealer on a lemon due to Ford not stepping up to seriously look into this issue.

Got the rig back again from the Local Ford service department. They stated they went ahead and replaced the PTU seal.

So far, no foul smell. I've driven it hard the past 2 days, trying to get it to smell again. Nothing...

I hope this helps others with this problem.

 

[dboyster]

This not a case of the engine burning relative amounts of oil. This smell
is from vented crankcase fumes. Which include oil vapor, and any combusted
but not completely combusted fuel that manages to "blow by" the
piston rings during the combustion cycle in the cylinders. These fumes
are piped from the crankcase section of the block and re-routed back
to the intake manifold to be re-burnt in the combustion chamber. This
provides cleaner emissions for the engine.

How these fumes or gases reach the passenger cabin under aggressive
acceleration is the issue. This type of emissions solution is used on
most gasoline engines today, and this is the first time I have ever smelled this
inside a passenger cabin of any car or truck I have driven.

This smell will not go away with engine break in or many thousands of
miles on it. There is always some amount of "blow by" in internal combustion engines,
and you will always smell this under aggressive acceleration, until the
root cause is found and addressed.

This is part of the emissions solution package for the engine design, and being that
emissions are regulated by the Federal government, this could be a serious issue to
have vapors intended to be re-burnt in the engine to pass emission requirements,
escaping into the environment from what should be a closed system.

Then again I could be wrong about this, as I have no proof yet. But it is a logical
conclusion based on the what we know about emission solutions for gasoline
engines.

I am pretty sure there is a problem with some sort of check valve solution
on this system, as it only happens during high rpm operation where the
internal crankcase atmospheric pressure reachs high levels, as does the
vacuum pressure in the intake manifold.

If you want to experience the smell without the aggressive acceleration,
with the motor at operating temperature, but not running, remove the oil cap
and take a wiff.

I'm from Dubai and i have a 2013 Ford Flex AWD with 6,000 kms. I'm experiencing all the problems described in this forum. Your theory makes the most sense out of all the ones that i've read. I hope it's just a check valve issue (which i hope can easily be replaced) and not something related to the whole design of the emissions system.

 

[dboyster]

FINALLY, NHTSA recognizes there is a potential risk with this exhaust smell in the cabin. Unfortunately, I can't file a complaint on the NHTSA website since I live in the Philippines. But once there is a recall in the US, we will be included. So, please fellow victims of this exhaust smell, FILE THE COMPLAINT!

I am getting tired of worrying every time I drive the EX.

Pinoy from Dubai with a 2013 Flex. Same problem as described here. So it looks like the Explorer and the Flex have a similar design.

 

[blanchard7684]

My 2014 Limited has this exhaust smell issue. I noticed it the first time I floored it to get on a freeway.

What I am observing is

at full throttle you don't smell anything. this is with the a/c in recirc or fresh air.

When you let off the gas, and the A/C compressor reengages, the smell barrels through the vents about 2-3 seconds after lifting from throttle.

I did some testing today now that the engine is broke in.

I've got 2500 miles.

I crawled all over the bottom of the Explorer trying to find an obvious place where exhaust could creep in.

I found nothing.

All rubber grommets are secure.
All weather stripping is secure. I initially suspected the rear lift gate was letting vapors in but it isn't leaking...driving down dirt road will show quickly where there is a gap.

I checked the canister purge solenoid to see if it was leaking gas vapors during a vapor control cycle. nothing.

It isn't the PCV system or the breather. When these leak fumes they leak constantly...not under a unique driving scenario.

No exhaust leaks that are obvious by sound or sight.

Then I found the rear A/C bulkhead and the drain. It is very close to the rear drivers muffler. I suspected vapors were getting in there from exhaust fumes getting circulated behind vehicle.

So I taped off the vent. I went driving.

I did 5 hot laps from 0-80.

Lap 1...no change...air is in recirc and 3 seconds after lifting off throttle the smell bludgeons you.

Lap 2...air on "fresh air"...0-80... no smell.

Lap 3...air on fresh air...0-80... no smell

Lap 4...air on recirc...0-80... no smell

Lap 5...air on recirc...0-80 no smell

What I learned:

A/c drain has nothing to do with this.

either driving time or vent position is more correlated to this problem

 

[dragonexplorer12]

Pinoy from Dubai with a 2013 Flex. Same problem as described here. So it looks like the Explorer and the Flex have a similar design.

I read somewhere that even the Mustang experiences his fume smell.

 

[dragonexplorer12]

Wow! Thanks for the testing, blanchard7684

Question, did you smell is from the front vents or the rear vents? I notice the smell more coming from the rear vents.

Also, the A/C rear vents blow off more burnt rubber or hose or something than in the front.

 

[blanchard7684]

I think the smell is coming from the rear vents:

The smell takes a few seconds to hit your senses.
There is a rear air intake system positioned well towards the rear near the tail lights. You can see it in tsb 12-12-4.
When there is an engine compartment smell, it is quickly detected through the front vents and it feels like it is almost blowing on your face.

I did some more testing last Sunday.

I did two more W-O-T runs. Air set on fresh air.

The smell was there but barely detectable.

The first run gave the strongest odor.

I'm intrigued by the muffler hypothesis.

 

[dboyster]

I also noticed that the exhaust fumes don't get in until 15 to 20 secs after i lift off the throttle but i don't think it's related to the AC because i tried a WOT run with the AC off and i can still smell the exhaust.

I also don't think the exhaust that is getting in are post-cat converter fumes because i stuck my nose near the muffler to try to compare it with the smell inside the cabin and i noticed that the smell near the muffler is not even half as offensive as the smell inside. This leads me to believe that whatever we are breathing inside the cabin are raw exhaust gases that haven't passed through the Cat yet. Just an opinion at this point.

I just ordered a carbon monoxide meter from Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/Tough-Waterpr...5435023&sr=8-6&keywords=carbon+monoxide+meter

and intend to do trial runs once it arrives. This way i can make a more quantitative test rather than just using my nose. I plan to document it on video and send it to Ford, NHTSA or wherever.

By the way, i think that the reason you detected a fainter smell in your succeeding runs is because your nose had already become desensitized just like when you compare perfumes in a mall.

Also, did you inspect the firewall for any possible ways gases can come in?

My 2014 Limited has this exhaust smell issue. I noticed it the first time I floored it to get on a freeway.

What I am observing is

at full throttle you don't smell anything. this is with the a/c in recirc or fresh air.

When you let off the gas, and the A/C compressor reengages, the smell barrels through the vents about 2-3 seconds after lifting from throttle.

I did some testing today now that the engine is broke in.

I've got 2500 miles.

I crawled all over the bottom of the Explorer trying to find an obvious place where exhaust could creep in.

I found nothing.

All rubber grommets are secure.
All weather stripping is secure. I initially suspected the rear lift gate was letting vapors in but it isn't leaking...driving down dirt road will show quickly where there is a gap.

I checked the canister purge solenoid to see if it was leaking gas vapors during a vapor control cycle. nothing.

It isn't the PCV system or the breather. When these leak fumes they leak constantly...not under a unique driving scenario.

No exhaust leaks that are obvious by sound or sight.

Then I found the rear A/C bulkhead and the drain. It is very close to the rear drivers muffler. I suspected vapors were getting in there from exhaust fumes getting circulated behind vehicle.

So I taped off the vent. I went driving.

I did 5 hot laps from 0-80.

Lap 1...no change...air is in recirc and 3 seconds after lifting off throttle the smell bludgeons you.

Lap 2...air on "fresh air"...0-80... no smell.

Lap 3...air on fresh air...0-80... no smell

Lap 4...air on recirc...0-80... no smell

Lap 5...air on recirc...0-80 no smell

What I learned:

A/c drain has nothing to do with this.

either driving time or vent position is more correlated to this problem

 

[blanchard7684]

I also noticed that the exhaust fumes don't get in until 15 to 20 secs after i lift off the throttle but i don't think it's related to the AC because i tried a WOT run with the AC off and i can still smell the exhaust.

I also don't think the exhaust that is getting in are post-cat converter fumes because i stuck my nose near the muffler to try to compare it with the smell inside the cabin and i noticed that the smell near the muffler is not even half as offensive as the smell inside. This leads me to believe that whatever we are breathing inside the cabin are raw exhaust gases that haven't passed through the Cat yet. Just an opinion at this point.


Also, did you inspect the firewall for any possible ways gases can come in?

I'll try the A/C off...may not be able to post results for a few days.

I am pretty sure the fumes are exhaust from the catalytic converter based on 2 decades of servicing and modifying vehicles. The catalytic process will create such a smell when air/fuel ratios reach a certain level of richness.

If you have ever driven behind someone who is wide open throttle, you'll get the exact same smell.

I looked for places for the fumes to enter the firewall...nothing obvious and I looked extensively for about an hour...on the ground even. However the firewall area is difficult to see in this SUV.

I also looked extensively at the exhaust manifold and the cat converter and didn't see any signs of leaks.

 

[blanchard7684]

all runs 0-75ish at wide open throttle

recirc on--smell
recirc on--smell, but diminished
recirc off--no smell
recirc off--no smell
a/c off, recirc off--no smell
a/c off, recirc on--no smell
a/c off, recirc off--no smell
a/c on, rear air on, recirc on--no smell
a/c on, rear air on, recirc off--no smell

Next day

First free way run 0-75 and 3/4 throttle.

A/C on, rear air on, recirc on--smell so bad I wanted to cry.

Later on...after driving for about 40 minutes at freeway speeds...

A/C on, recirc off, rear air off---no smell.

I notice now a repeatable trend: The first significant acceleration of the day, say after a cold soak (overnight in automotive slang), produces the worst smell.

In successive runs the smell is either totally absent or diminished substantially

I drove an 8 hr trip across the state today.

First acceleration, 20-75 mph, wot, A/C on recirc off--smell but diminished

Drive about 20 minutes...repeat (20-75 mph)...no smell.

Drive 20 min...turn recirc on...no smell.

Drive 20 min...rear air on...no smell.

Drive 45 minutes at cruise. Accelerate 50-75 to pass, recirc off--smell but diminished.

Repeat 20-75 mph, recirc off--no smell.

BTW kudos to Ford on the stout engine...at 90-100 degree weather, with 87 octane, there is plenty of power with zero spark knock or overheating.

And the brakes didn't fade either...nice.

And the 6F transmission felt smooth during all WOT runs.

Conclusions:

leaving recirc off diminishes the smell. The higher the fan speed the better.

I think the smell is tied to catalytic converter temperature. After running the engine very hard, the smell is totally gone. The cats should be almost red hot.

After running the engine at freeway speeds for 30-45 minutes, the smell is diminished and almost gone with recirc off.

The first accel of the day produces the worst smell. The exhaust is the coldest (while engine is running).

This isn't going to be a simple fix for Ford.

Fix the a/c controls to prevent exhaust fumes from entering the rear air ducts (if this is even possible) or find root cause for why the cats are producing the smell (meaning a catalytic converter change).

 

[R56 Ed]

Add me to the growing list. I've read all the posts on this topic, hoping to find that someone, somewhere, had found a solution. Shucks... no luck to far.

In my case, I think the smell most closely resembles the smell that one would find upon opening the oil filler cap... it smells to me more like crankcase fumes than exhaust fumes. Almost like the PCV valve is allowing some gas to escape into the atmosphere/ventilation system intake any time I rev the engine to 4k or above. Oh yeah, that's another thing. For me, it doesn't seem to matter how hard I accelerate or how hot or cold the engine/atmosphere might be. Whenever the revs reach 4 grand and I let off, that's when I smell the fumes. Guess it's time to visit the dealer to register the problem hoping that there will be a solution soon.

BTW, I LOVE this site! So much good info from so many good folks, and mostly without the snarkiness that I see in some other forums. Keep up the great work!