Battery Saver Relay / Parasitic drain

[Null_Ckt]

After looking through every other battery drain thread I can find I'm still having trouble. I have about a 300mA drain when everything is just sitting. Pulling fuse 25 drops it to 35mA. Putting that back in and pulling fuse 26 drops it to 140mA. Also waited an hour (hood up, didn't touch anything else) and rechecked drain and it was still there.

25 = GEM / PATS / Speedometer
26 = battery saver relay / interior lamps relays / some other lights

I replaced the GEM and problem remains (drain also disappears when the GEM is disconnected). Leaning toward the battery saver, so question #1 - Where is it? It's not in the GEM b/c i disassembled this and no dice. I'm leaning toward replacing the relay next.

Question #2 - any suggestions? I can't start after sitting 2 days and the battery is only 1 month old.
Thanks for any help - I've lurked and learned here several years.

 

[CDW6212R]

Welcome, and look at more wiring diagrams, or go at the relays easily accessible near the column, to the right of the pedals.

I've never researched the wiring in detail, only enough to add ARC wiring to my 99. I've never had a drain that noticeably made starting difficult. I've had two trucks start after a year or more, but that was when they were less than ten years old. My 98 Mountaineer sets a lot now, and the battery will be low after 2-3 months. The GEM and relays probably are consuming more electricity at their old age.

I'm interested in the GEM and battery saver features for my next project, which will be including the GEM etc, in my 91 Lincoln. I've got spare wiring to replace it all between the different vehicles, so the research will be the hard part.

 

[Null_Ckt]

Yeah, it drains me to where I can't start in about 3 days (battery goes from ~13.3V to ~11V). I've had problems finding the wiring diagrams that were readable. I have the Ford 1999 Trucks factory troubleshooting CD (copy from a guy that used to work at the F150 plant that was here) but I can't get it working. Wiring diagrams I do find are pretty much all for the audio system. If anyone has them for these circuits I would appreciate it. I'll get at the relays you mentioned this afternoon.

There is also some aftermarket security that the first owner put it that I want to remove but since I have no info on it I have hesitated to start unplugging things to remove it. Note: this is not part of the battery issue as it's not on any circuit mentioned above. It also has its own fuse and pulling that doesn't change battery draw.

Update: I started pulling relays in the panel near the pedals and found one that dropped the draw to ~100mA. B/c I don't have a a schematic I have no idea what it does but will replace it ad see what happens. A schematic for that panel would be great if anyone has one.

 

[J_C]

I don't have a diagram for that panel but think the battery saver relay is the one missing in this following picture (not my pic) or following page link if the direct link doesn't work. You should be able to swap in one of the other relays to test, or I think new they go for around $9 on Amazon, part # RY612

http://s173.photobucket.com/user/JT...06_104347_512_zpsf9a1b3ab.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

 

[1998Exp]

[QUOTE="Null_Ckt, post: 3596467, member: 316021
Update: I started pulling relays in the panel near the pedals and found one that dropped the draw to ~100mA. B/c I don't have a a schematic I have no idea what it does but will replace it ad see what happens. A schematic for that panel would be great if anyone has one.[/QUOTE]

You need to find the book called "1999 Explorer Mountaineer EVTM" (Electrical, Vacuum and Troubleshooting Manual) - either the print or DVD version. The information you are looking for is on dozens of pages, so not practical to scan and send to you.

 

[CDW6212R]

That 300mA draw sounds big enough to drain the battery that fast.

The aftermarket security wiring sounds like a good possibility for drawing a lot of power all of the time too. It is common for people to wire in those main power tap circuits poorly. I would inspect those very closely, which should be done at the main ignition switch wiring or connector.

I would concentrate on the non factory wiring now, pull any fuses to it and identify where the main power circuits connect. I added a remote start to my Crown Vic long ago, and I tried hard not to hurt the main power wires. That was very difficult, and later I discovered aftermarket "T" harnesses which can be plugged in(no cutting or soldering), and cost about $20.

 

[Null_Ckt]

I don't have a diagram for that panel but think the battery saver relay is the one missing in this following picture (not my pic) or following page link if the direct link doesn't work. You should be able to swap in one of the other relays to test, or I think new they go for around $9 on Amazon, part # RY612

http://s173.photobucket.com/user/JT...06_104347_512_zpsf9a1b3ab.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

My panel looks a bit different but the fuses are the same route. Picked up a new one tonight so I'll try it tomorrow. After having the old one out 2 hours I put it back and the current didn't return. Makes me think the GEM is signaling correctly but the relay gets stuck.

 

[Null_Ckt]

That 300mA draw sounds big enough to drain the battery that fast.

The aftermarket security wiring sounds like a good possibility for drawing a lot of power all of the time too. It is common for people to wire in those main power tap circuits poorly. I would inspect those very closely, which should be done at the main ignition switch wiring or connector.

I would concentrate on the non factory wiring now, pull any fuses to it and identify where the main power circuits connect. I added a remote start to my Crown Vic long ago, and I tried hard not to hurt the main power wires. That was very difficult, and later I discovered aftermarket "T" harnesses which can be plugged in(no cutting or soldering), and cost about $20.

The aftermarket security has a dedicated fuse, part of its harness. Pulling that doesn't change anything so I don't believe it's causing this problem. I still plan to take it out when things get warmer. Gotta go things starting consistently before I begin monkeying with something else.

 

[zef]

I have the exact same problem. Exact same current draw, exact same result when pulling fuses.

I've been pulling fuse 25 whenever I park the car for more than a few hours.

Looking forward to the result with the new relay. If it fixes it, would you mind posting a pic or other info om which relay to replace? I have a 1998 XLT so it should be very similar to yours.

 

[CDW6212R]

My panel looks a bit different but the fuses are the same route. Picked up a new one tonight so I'll try it tomorrow. After having the old one out 2 hours I put it back and the current didn't return. Makes me think the GEM is signaling correctly but the relay gets stuck.

That sounds like you might have found it. The GEM is a complicated and critical circuit assembly of course. When something goes awry in it, you can get some odd issues. Replacing it would be the easiest solution, but that means used(a new one is way high). I wonder if anyone services GEM's like they do radios etc.

BTW, the 98-01 GEM's are the same two, there are only two, one for 4WD(the V6 4WD) and one without 4WD. So you can locate one easily knowing that. All that matters is if the truck has actual 4WD(not AWD). The 4WD trucks have two additional modules that work with the 4WD GEM version, the 4WD and TOD modules.

 

[J_C]

When I tested mine and realized it stays energized at around 300mA or so for the first (however long, somewhere between 10min and 45min) and that was normal, and after realizing that even opening the drivers door reset that time period, I was very careful to keep my multimeter connected to both the battery terminal and cable connector to not break the circuit, keep it energized the whole time when taking a current reading after leaving it sit for 45min, and finding the current had dropped to an acceptably low level. I wondered if I broke the circuit then completed it again, that might also start the timer period for ~300mA drain over again.

Doing that, I realized my relay was working fine and it was just my lack of understanding of the circuit previously, and a weak battery along with too few, short trips that were contributing to my low battery voltage... but that doesn't mean that's your cause.

IMO, they should have provided some way for owners to set the battery saver timeout period they want. They should have also put it in the freakin' manual, a detail like this of how long the battery saver circuit stays energized, or maybe it's there and being a guy I just never read the manual.

Since I don't put many miles on mine, I have considered a roof mounted solar panel to keep the battery topped off.

 

[CDW6212R]

That makes sense, for it to be more active(300mA) during the period right after shut off. I've known about the battery saver since my 93 Limited, which would cut off the lights after about 20 minutes if you left them on. I don't know how that worked in those 93/94 models, but I appreciated that feature very much. I still have the 93 dash if anyone knows what components are worth saving from the wiring.

 

[zef]

Mine does 300mA, which drops to 150mA after about 45 minutes. The 150mA seems to be sustained indefinitely.

 

[J_C]

Back when I measured mine I posted what the pre-timeout and post-timeout drain was. I'll see if I can find that post as I seem to recall it was a lot lower than 150mA after 45min. on my '98 XLT. It still has factory radio and only OEM PATs security, remote doorlocks and such if any of that matters.

Okay I found that post, I was at 235mA for the first 45min and 20mA thereafter.
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums...amps-fuse-25-the-problem.449899/#post-3561167

 

[Null_Ckt]

Sorry it took a while to get back but work got in the way. It turned out that it was the battery saver relay and I can post a pic. Installed it and after 45 minutes (way too long IMHO) it tripped and everything went to close to 30mA, I I think (left my notebook outside and it rained. Whoops). Everything starts much better now.
I had to remember pop the door latch too, which was what messed me up at first. At least I tightened up wiring and such while I was waiting and had around the radio disassembled.
@J_C Yeah, I think it might have been that post of yours that got me on a better track. Thanks. I'll post some pics later.
@zef If you think it is your relay at all just replace it... It's a cheap check. Message me if you have any more questions about what I did.

 

[CDW6212R]

Well done for figuring it out and not taking it to someone else, who would R&R parts.

I had two door latches and one hatch latch not working properly over the last two months on my 98 Limited. Every time I found the problem when the dash light(door ajar) coming on. Each time the striker was cracked or gone, and the latches weren't lined up perfectly either. I had to adjust the two doors along with the striker to get a better fit, and function. The hatch seems to fit okay, but the striker bushings were all rough(one was gone there).

You just keep at it until it's right.

 

[Null_Ckt]

I saw a post about strikers going (might have been yours) so I've given them all a once over too.

And the problem relay is the shiny one in the top left of the picture.

 

[J_C]

I take it the relay in the pic is the replacement since it doesn't look OEM like the rest? It's still the same pinout, part # (equivalent) as the other 3 next to it?