Contemplating 5.0L rebuild for mild performance boost

[Blown]

I was out yesterday, my tune is 103 KB.


Have you tried to "Read EEC" in CalEdit? Of course the data won't make sense if the wrong strategy is chosen. I do see READ0 in the strategy pick list. You might be able to get a good read and then put your tune in it.

From Tweecer supported EEC's:

MOUNTAINEER	MY00	ANY	5.0L	XL2F-PE	READ0	EQE4	ML2-8A1
MOUNTAINEER	MY00	ANY	5.0L	XL2F-PE	READ0	EQE4	ML2-8A1A
MOUNTAINEER	MY00	ANY	5.0L	XL2F-PF	READ0	EQE5	ML2-8A1
MOUNTAINEER	MY00	ANY	5.0L	XL2F-PF	READ0	EQE5	ML2-8A1A
MOUNTAINEER	MY00	ANY	5.0L	XU7A-AFA	READ0	FLN0	ML2-8A1
MOUNTAINEER	MY00	ANY	5.0L	XU7A-AFA	READ0	FLN0	ML2-8A1A

I hope your making progress, good luck!

 

[Mesozoic]

Still struggling with getting the engine running, but I believe I have some kind of sensor issue. According to the Quarterhorse, both my ECT and ACT sensor readings are 2F. Both are the original sensors I had from the original 150K engine and I installed a 90mm LMAF, which doesn’t have an IAT sensor inside the MAF, so I have plumbed the 2 wires for the IAT from the original MAF plug to an external IAT plug and using an old IAT sensor I found laying around one of my bins.

 

[allmyEXes]

Unfortunately EFItuning doesn't have Explorer bin files that have been broken out yet. For my first coil-near-plug project, I'm using a 1999 Crown Vic pcm with an ARA3 bin file, iirc. It will need some lite tuning to go from 4.6 to 5.0. The 2nd 5.0 in the works will use the 2003 full size sedan pcm that Don up in TN mentioned. I was a little surprised to find that the Explorer tunes hadn't had an xdf file created for the 1998-2001 Explorers, that is via efidynotuning. It will take someone or a group to pay to have that done and creating a definition file could take several months to do the work. I recently bought a 1998 Explorer PATS off file to be able to get my 3rd 5.0 going as it goes into a '65 Mustang Fastback project that will eventually be upgraded to coil-near-plug too.
The Moates QH is a good tool for RT tuning but it won't flash tune. I can't remember exactly how it goes but I think after you do your RT tune, you save that bin file from QH, a 256K file, then you have to do some file rearranging to get it to 224K with a different bank order, in order to use a flash programmer and software from eastern Europe, PCMflash, to flash the tune back into the pcm via the OBD2 port. Then you can remove the QH from the pcm to use in another one. I have a Spanish made Scanmatik for flashing. Core tuning sells a package that is a Moates QH and a DrewTech Mongoose Pro for Ford.
Tuning tools for Ford

 

[Mesozoic]

CoreTuning has the strategies broken out for the Explorer, if you're willing to pay for them.

Ford IDS can be used to flash the EEC-V as well.

 

[Blown]

Tweecer RT for the win! Again, the READ0 strategy is in the software. I think if you set-up for 2-4 banks tunes, hook-up to the EEC and READ it, that the tweecer will show the 2-4 bank, but only when connected to the Tweecer. That should work and get the strategy populated in CalEdit to tune. The configuration does not show without being connected to the Tweecer.

I thought of another thing, you have to have the bank count, at the bottom of CalEdit set to 4 banks when you write/flash the EEC???. It defaults to 2 since most are 4 two bank tunes.

To be sure, I know a basic thing, but I wanted to be sure you adjusted injector slopes for 64psi fuel pressure?
Correction factor = 80lbs/39.15=2.043 Square root of 2.043= 1.429 1.429X80=114.32 for Low Slope
It would be dumping 43% excess fuel into the engine if not tuned for higher pressure.

Anyone can look to see if there EEC strategy is supported/broken-out on the Tweecer site. The strategies are included in the Tweecer tuning/flashing software and you can datalog. I have had nothing but good tuning with the Tweecer without buying extra files, software, running spreadsheets etc etc. Good Support as well.

 

[Mesozoic]

Tweecer RT for the win! Again, the READ0 strategy is in the software. I think if you set-up for 2-4 banks tunes, hook-up to the EEC and READ it, that the tweecer will show the 2-4 bank, but only when connected to the Tweecer. That should work and get the strategy populated in CalEdit to tune. The configuration does not show without being connected to the Tweecer.

I thought of another thing, you have to have the bank count, at the bottom of CalEdit set to 4 banks when you write/flash the EEC???. It defaults to 2 since most are 4 two bank tunes.

To be sure, I know a basic thing, but I wanted to be sure you adjusted injector slopes for 64psi fuel pressure?
Correction factor = 80lbs/39.15=2.043 Square root of 2.043= 1.429 1.429X80=114.32 for Low Slope
It would be dumping 43% excess fuel into the engine if not tuned for higher pressure.

Anyone can look to see if there EEC strategy is supported/broken-out on the Tweecer site. The strategies are included in the Tweecer tuning/flashing software and you can datalog. I have had nothing but good tuning with the Tweecer without buying extra files, software, running spreadsheets etc etc. Good Support as well.

Yeah, I think I figured out how to get the Tweecer to work with 2-4 bank tunes, no issues there. Probably wasted about $300 on a definition from CoreTuning. Regardless, I have future projects to work on and I don't have any more Tweecers, so it might come in handy.

I did make adjustments to the fuel injector data for 65 psi. I found the datasheet from Ford for the LU80s and was able to use their data to extrapolate new high and low slopes, as well as battery offset vs voltage curve, breakpoint, etc. One issue I did come across was that the largest low slope value that the EEC can represent is about 112 lb/hr, but these later generation EECs provide a method of scaling using a multiplier curve for each slope value, so that I used that to get around the 112 lb/hr limitation.

Either way, the engine still runs like ****. I was perusing the Fuel section of Mike's website on EFIDynoTuning.com and I did come across an important piece of information that may be the culprit, though. The PRLDSW. I have been trying to run this engine using PRLDSW set to 1, which I believe is not what you want... you want PRLDSW to be set to 0, which means that the EEC will scale load using FN035, which is the basically the volumetric efficiency curve of the engine at WOT. This might be the reason for overfueling, but I'm in Disneyland until Saturday and won't have an opportunity to test this theory out until I return home.

 

[allmyEXes]

@Mesozoic When you are using the phrase "2-4 bank tunes" what is the 2 in reference to? All 1998 to 2003-04ish EEC-V are 4 bank bin (tunes) files.
There are definitely at least 3 maybe more distinct EEC-V tuning "camps" or "tribes". They have all grown out of the "Fox body" EEC-IV era of tuning that at the end of the tuning process required that a chip be flashed to be plugged back in after using the Moates QH. 1998 and up EEC-V is OBD2 port flash-able.
I have a "knock off" Ford IDS/VCM2 device that I haven't installed on any of my laptops to see if it will work to flashtune.
Everything that I have been attempting to learn, equipment (mostly) and eventually tuning, comes from Michael P.'s way of doing things.
The reason that I opted for the Scanmatik over the Mongoose dongle was when I was purchasing ECUTools, PCMflash module #29, it recommended the Scanmatik device.
I know that I've gone a little off track as it has to do with what and how you are tuning your EEC-V 5.0.
Good project and a great effort going on with your 5.0 project!

 

[Mesozoic]

@allmyEXes , I believe the 2-4 bank tune reference describes the Tweecer's memory capacity in holding tune positions. The EEC-V calibrations for these vehicles are 4-bank tunes due to the memory footprint, but the Tweecer can only retain 2 of them at this size. Mike G. points this out in his documentation by stating that when running in this mode, the switch position for tune 1 is positions 1 and 3, while tune 2 is selected by switching to position 2 or 4.

 

[allmyEXes]

I see what your saying. On both of my devices I may have to specify EEC-V 4 bank.

 

[Mesozoic]

So I'm not 100% sure how many folks are tuning their EEC-Vs in their Exs, but I would say that the definition from CoreTuning (in its current form) is useless. Critical variables that would normally need to be datalogged in order to perform analysis and revise the tune are not available. The ACT, ECT, even RPM values are not loggable with the CoreTuning definition. Another major issue with the definition is the lack of PIDs being exposed. For anyone new to tuning EECs, each tunable variable or function has a name (like PRLDSW or FN035) and you can find Ford documents which provide detailed descriptions for how these variables work and are defined. The CoreTuning definitions do not provide the PIDs for each variable in their definition, so you're making an educated guess as to which variable you're actually adjusting (although their description of each variable is reasonably adequate in most cases). Bottom line is that is I can't recommend their definition for Ex tuning at this time. I would stick with either Tweecer RT or another EEC box running a more complete definition that supports the 4R70W transmission, like CDAN4.

 

[allmyEXes]

Someone would need TunerPro RT to run the bin file and def file/s that Michael P. at efidynotuning.com creates. I studied a 2003 Marauder file for months looking at pids and flags etc. TunerPro RT is available online and on Michaels site too.

 

[Blown]

The Tweecer can hold up to 4 - 2 banks tunes for the EECIV
It only has the ability to keep 2 - 4 bank tunes which the EECV utilizes.

That still has given me two tunes to switch between on the fly. I have found that most all can be accounted for in one good tune, but I do have a safer tune loaded with less timing and more fuel just in case.

The Tweecer base strategy for EQE3 REAC4 is posted on the support site. It is also in the Tweecer software and ready for tuning.

 

[Mesozoic]

There is no usable definition (xdf) for TunerPro that supports REAC4 or READ0 strategies, unfortunately. Mike may have one available for a price, but last I checked with him he had not developed one.

 

[Blown]

REAC4 or READ0 strategies, unfortunately. Mike may have one available for a price, but last I checked with him he had not developed one.

Mesozoic: "I spoke with Adam Marrer of CoreTuning earlier. He mentioned that he's seen that some Tweecer devices do not work well with the last generation of EEC-V computers because of a potential memory space addressing limitation."

May we clear-up what you wrote? The tweecer has tuned two EECV strategies for me. It just works but needs to be configured correctly for 2 - 4 bank strategies.

As for the Tweecer working with the EECV and strategies available, I am clearly running with an EQE3 EECV utilizing the REAC4 strategy and a Tweecer RT. I have tuned and data logged with Mike Glover's CalEdit and CalCon software and I can switch between 2 tunes. There is no additional cost for the strategies if they show as supported, REAC0 is supported and is already in the Tweecer CalEdit software. Perhaps you write of a different Mike than Mike Glover of TwEECer about additional costs?

An exception to Tweecer fee's is that Mike does charge a $75 support fee if you bought used and you want his direct support through email, text, phone, and computer. I have thrown him some cash after he willingly helped me tune three different vehicles with the same Tweecer RT. The web site group support is always free. There are no additional charges unless you want him to tune for you and that is reasonable as well. He starts at $75 to get it running, a mid level tune at $150 and $300 for advanced. Sounds like, as you wrote, you need some of his help.

Tweecer CalEdit for tuning showing READ0 chosen in the pick list for strategy:

 

[Mesozoic]

I am going to call BS on this:
"I spoke with Adam Marrer of CoreTuning earlier. He mentioned that he's seen that some Tweecer devices do not work well with the last generation of EEC-V computers because of a potential memory space addressing limitation."

Please don't let a competitor give you bad info and pass it on here. Now you are saying strategies are not broke-out when they are supported. I am using REAC4 and REAC0 is also supported by Tweecer.

Let's be clear, I am running and tuning with an EQE3 EECV utilizing the REAC4 strategy and a Tweecer RT. I have tuned and data logged with his CalEdit and CalCon software and I can switch between 2 tunes There is no additional cost for the strategies if they show as supported, REAC0 is supported and is already in the Tweecer CalEdit software!

For the third time, it is simple to READ the EEC in CalEdit and start tuning. I would have a working tune for you and feel I could within a couple hours if the mechanical stuff is sorted-out.

An exception to Tweecer fee's is that Mike charges a $75 support fee if you bought used. I have thrown him some cash after he willingly helped me tune three different vehicles with the same Tweecer RT. The web site group support is free. There are no additional charges unless you want him to tune for you and that is reasonable as well. He starts at $75 to get it running, a mid level tune at $150 and $300 for advanced. Maybe you need some of his help.

Oh come on, I'm not going to throw in the towel that easily!

I have the same sentiment about the Tweecer hardware... I've been using 2 units for over 20 years and I've never had any issues with them. In fact, I've confirmed that I've got the 2-4 bank thing working now and have been running down tune related problems that are plaguing the startup. The REAC4 stuff is working for me, but I've not been able to get READ0 to work, but it's not important. The reason why is that in solving my tuning issues I have 3 separate EECs setup with tunes for the Mountaineer for testing! I had to do this because I have been plagued with fueling issues and I think I may have had a breakthrough in understanding last night.

The EECs I have setup currently:

• CDAN4 EEC-V: Using a JZP3 box and Sailorbob's definition for Binary Editor using a Quarterhorse; I'm using this because I've successfully stood up a high compression 408 stroker in front of a 4R70W in a classic Mustang before.
• REAC4 EEC-V: The stock EQE3 box and setup with the Tweecer RT hardware.
• READ0 EEC-V: Junkyard EQE3 box that my friend and I updated to FLN0 on READ0, setup with the Quarterhorse.

I have been able to rule out many tune related and hardware related issues by testing each of these setups. For example, the READ0 definition I have from CoreTuning does not log ACT, ECT or even RPM correctly. Ruled out that the readings it was acquiring were erroneous by testing on the REAC4 and CDAN4 box. Working with those folks on updates to the definition to get it working.

In any case, the breakthrough was initially the PRLDSW setting - mine was set to 1, but really needs to be set to 0 to use FN035, which is the volumetric efficiency curve for the engine. With that set correctly, I was able to get the load under control, finally, but I still had the fueling issue. The EEC's load calc is directly responsible for generating the appropriate fueling, so having proved that load and fuel were now decoupled, I knew I had some other kind of fueling issue.

The 2nd breakthrough (I think) is the fact that the EEC-V cannot handle injector slopes greater than about 56 lb/hr. Since I'm running 80 lb/hr injectors, I will need to either reduce injector size so I can use datasheet values directly in the tune or scale the entire air/fuel model to accommodate the larger injectors. I did not have this problem with the same injectors in my Fox Mustang using an A9L box because I started with Decipha's A9L2 base tune, which calculates the correct scaling in the background for oversize injectors. Of course, I do not have that facility for the REAC4 or READ0, so that is what I need to focus on next. It's easier to make adjustments in software, so I'm going to see if I can scale the 80s down, but I did go ahead and order some EV6 24 lb/hr injectors that function as 38 lb/hr units at 65 psi.

 

[Blown]

I wanted to be clear that the Tweecer works with EECV as the post left doubt.

I wanted to be clear that the strategies are there with Tweecer and supported without additional cost.

You are 'all over it', meaning good job, you got this covered, good update and Good Luck!

 

[Mesozoic]

Yeah, the Tweecer definitely works because I have had it functioning for years without issue in my Mountaineer. The datalogging via CalCon has suddenly stopped working, however... not sure how to resurrect that, but also not sure it's 100% necessary.

I wish I had this under control... about to test the CDAN4 EEC-V since it's the only one that has a definition that allows me to modify all the necessary functions with a scaling percentage. I would prefer to run the REAC4/READ0 box, however so I might just swap in the stock injectors for break-in since that will allow me to avoid having to perform the scaling in the first place. Awaiting a set of the 24 lb/hr units to permanently solve that problem.

 

[Blown]

Data logging? I had to read to remember after I was away from Tweecing for a bit. You have to write the tune with it set-up for data logging.

Tweecer: Below is the sequential list of steps to activate logging:
• Load Calibration • Select Strategy • Set the Bank Count • Click the Utilities tab • Check up to 16 registers to log • Click Payload button to create default payload (optional: save payload) • Check the Data logging checkbox at the bottom of CalEdit • Write calibration to TwEECer • Start Calcon • Key on -- RT Ready light should come on • Start Automobile • Click Start Logging button – RT data light should illuminate and data should begin displaying in the Calcon display.

TwEECer is not perfect, I have not had luck running Calcon and Caledit at the same time, one of them usually crashes. I do not open Calcon from Caledit for this reason.

 

[Mesozoic]

It lives. The stock injectors solved the startup issue, for sure... unfortunately, it ran out of fuel while idling so that is the next order of business.

 

[Mesozoic]

So it definitely runs, but it sure runs like crap! I'm using the READ0 EEC-V running FLN0 with a definition from CoreTuning. I have to say, one of the most annoying things about that definition is the lack of PIDs. Highly irritating.

I've now got it to a point where it fires up and idles from cold, but it's really low on power all throughout the band. If I give it too much throttle in pretty much any gear, I'll get a mild pop/backfire, not sure where it's coming from yet. The O2s are the original ones from before the engine rebuild and I kept them in there for startup because I wasn't sure how the fueling was going to turn out. I think that they may be toast from running the engine extremely rich with the larger 80 lb/hr injectors and now one bank is not leaning out at all and is commanding a much richer pulsewidth than the other side.

Plugs look clean, aside from the rich fouling from the earlier runs with the larger injectors, but they look serviceable and seem to be cleaning up with some running around. The O2s are not dataloggable with this definition, so I'll need to collect some more data to confirm whether they're functioning or not.