Identify this piece

[JakePSD]

Who can identify this piece? Truck is an 03 mountaineer. It was stuck to the magnet in my trans pan.

A little history. Bought the truck in October with a blown motor. Was told there was nothing else major wrong with it. That's kind if a half truth. I finally got the replacement motor in last weekend and noticed that, although it doesn't slip any in gear, it shudders when shifting some times. Most noticeable on the 4-5 shift. My 02 ex I have started doing the same thing shortly after I got it, so I drained and refilled the pan which solved the problem, shifts perfect now. So I set out today to do the same to my 03 plus a filter change.

So I dropped the pan to change the filter today on the 03 since I have no idea when it was last changed. 281xxx mi on the odometer, although there is a blue tag on the trans that says remanufactured and has some numbers. I can get those if anyone has the ability to find any info on mine. Supposedly the transmission fluid was changed about 100k ago. Looking at it I kinda believe it. Pretty dark, but doesn't smell burnt or anything. I found a steel piece stuck to the magnet. Besides that chunk, the amount of stuff on the magnet didn't seem alarming to me, seemed pretty normal.

So what do you guys think? Where did that piece come from? How much more life should I expect out of this transmission? Stuff on the magnet seem normal to you?

 

[JK080]

My first thought is a broken thrust bearing race, as far as how much time you have before a big failure, that's anyone's guess, one thing for sure it is on its way out.

You may find more pieces of this if you remove the valve body.

 

[JakePSD]

Yeah that looks about like what my piece came from. Should I remove the valve body? Would it do me any good? Do I need to replace any gaskets or anything if I drop the valve body? Or should I just put the pan back on, fill it up, and drive it til she quits? Is there a possibility that it will continue to live for quite a while assuming that is the only broken piece?

 

[JakePSD]

Also, assuming this would be the failure point, would it give me warning as its dying or is it more likely to just up and die on me leaving me stranded wherever it decides to kick the bucket?

 

[JK080]

There is no way to know how and when it will fail or what the symptoms will be.

What I have seen with bearing failure on this series of transmission is sticky valves or solenoids due to debris or noises from the gear train because of chipped teeth due to the needle bearings entering the gear set, sometimes it will just quit moving because the filter is full of debris of the failing parts.

There is no need to remove the valve body to get any extra pieces unless you plan to rebuild it, just leave it and drive it if you wish and make a decision when it finally lets go. If you rebuild it now it could be a easy rebuild with just the replacement of the normal wear items and little damage like just the bearing. If it has a big failure it might be easier to replace the whole thing.

 

[JakePSD]

Dang I don't know what to do. I've never rebuilt a tranny, although I've kinda been wanting to try it. I can't decide if I wanna pull it and try rebuilding it or just rock it til it dies and buy a reman from rock auto for $1500 or whatever it is. I have another v8 trans at my disposal that is already junk that I could rebuild, the only problem is that it's a W, and my 03 is an S.

 

[JakePSD]

The only difference between the S and W is the tooth count on the planetary drum right? Let's say I decide to rebuild the spare trans for now then put it in the truck. Can I convert it to an S easily while I have it apart? Would it even be worth converting it?

My 02 ex came with an S from the factory, I bought a parts truck with a good trans and put in it, and its a W. Been driving it that way for 4000+ miles with no problems. I just don't know if the computer in an 03 is more sensitive to the, however slight, wrong ratios.

 

[JakePSD]

According to the rock auto catalog my 03 Mounty has a W. According to the door code I thought it was an S. Wtf? I'm lost. How do I know what I have?

 

[JK080]

I dont know of a way to tell which ratio the transmission is externally, only way to know for sure is to remove the front gear train and count the teeth.

I have heard that it's ok to swap the two around until 04 but I dont know, I dont swap transmissions around at the shop we always rebuild them.

This is a fairly easy transmission to work on and the only real tough spots I see for you would be having the case sleeved for the servo bores, its a must on these and getting the pump back together correctly, if you take it apart you will need a line up tool.

It's not to difficult to swap in the gear train if they are different if you build your spare first, you won't even have to remove the pan.

 

[JakePSD]

The pan doesn't have to come off to do a rebuild? I didn't plan on sleeving the case. I figure run it and if it starts showing issues just get the oring kit. Cheaper and free replacement orings for life. Brass still wears faster than steel so even sleeving will have issues eventually. That's my current logic anyway, unless I can be convinced otherwise. Probably won't take the pump apart unless you know of a reason that I should.

The problem with rebuilding my spare first is that I have no idea what's wrong with it. I can however tell you what it was doing so maybe an expert can give me an idea. It came out of the parts truck that I bought for the engine, hence why I got it cheap. When the gear selector would be put into gear, you'd feel it engage, but when you press the throttle the engine would just rev up. If you hit the gas quickly or revved it up while dropping it in gear you could get it to move a couple feet but then would disengage again. Never saw any codes because there was no battery when I got it, and it didn't run long enough to throw a light. I started pulling the motor that weekend.

 

[JakePSD]

I've been thinking about it all night at work. If I just decide to pull it out of the truck now, being as it shifted ok minus the shuddering, a thrust bearing and race replacement is all I'd really need right? I mean while its apart I'd be a fool to not replace the clutches, but is there anything else I'd really need to or want to replace? Long term reliability is a top priority. How much money am I looking at spending to take this on myself? Is rebuilding one of these things a job a normal guy should be able to undertake? I've been wrenching for about 13 years on mine, my family, and my friends' stuff. I've done timing belt replacements on 4 cylinder engines, injector swaps on 7.3 power strokes, recently did a full 4.0L timing chain replacement including R&R of the engine, numerous transmission R&R's, 4.6 timing chains and engine R&R, just to give a bit of history on jobs I've completed successfully. With that kind of experience under my belt should I be able to handle this? The most in depth I've gone on a transmission is on my 7.3 super duty 4R100, pulled the valve body, installed a bigger boost valve, then reinstalled.

 

[JakePSD]

Sorry for a million posts of me rambling, but also what if I decide to just put the pan back on, refill it, and run it til it dies, and in the mean time, rebuild my spare. Would the cost probably be the same? By the way I just looked, the trans code on the door of the parts truck/spare transmission is R, the door code of the one in my keeper truck is V. If that helps any.

 

[JK080]

I never use the codes in the door so I am no help there.

If you rebuild your transmission I would stress the importance to have the case sleeved, the brass sleeves will wear less than the aluminum case. I had to go back into a transmission a few weeks ago (due to a broken band) that I sleeved 5 years ago and did not see any visible wear on the sleeves and left them in. One option to get the case sleeved is to pay a transmission shop to install them for you (I have done this for people before).

As a minimum during the rebuild you should replace all three bands, servos, converter, filter, kit with clutches and the molded forward piston (should come in the kit), and replace the valve in the pump with a updated one from Superior or Sonnax or TransGo. Obviously this means taking the pump apart, but the TransGo kit will give you not only the valve and other goodies it also gives you the pump alignment tool!

A sticky flow valve in the pump could be the problem as you described for you spare transmission, if it hangs it will slip in both forward and reverse and may move under high RPM's, very common complaint on these.

What I was meaning with leaving the pan on is if you rebuild your spare and lets say its the "Wide" ratio and then you remove the one in the truck and find out its the "Short" ratio you can just remove the pump and remove the overdrive gear set and just swap in other gear set without removing the pan. However I would rebuild the original one and use the spare one for parts, like the needle bearings or other damage you find along the way. The solenoid blocks on these are temperamental but you can try the two you have before purchasing another.

 

[JakePSD]

How much do shops usually charge to sleeve the case? How much am I looking at for price on all those parts? I looked on rock auto and found a rebuild kit for $250ish, I'll have to look if it has all those parts, and a converter for $100 plus core. On the converters, I remember reading on here somewhere that the 04+ converters stronger. I asked for a bit of elaboration on that but the poster must not have seen it. Not sure if he meant the older was weaker strength wise or just how "tight" it felt. What, if any, are better sources for trans parts than rock auto?

For the flow valve, is it possible that I could change that and have a usuable transmission? Anything to look for on disassembly to get an idea if that'll work?

Where can I buy a new thrust bearing? I kinda hate to use a used one being as this one already failed. Seems like a lot of work to fix just to use a replacement part that could be on the verge of failing, unless that is a very uncommon thing. As far as solenoid blocks go, I actually have 2 more v6 transmissions as well. Long story. Other than the bell housing, is there any difference between v6 and v8 transmissions? Other than the OD planetary, are there any differences between the W and S?

Sorry for all the questions. Just trying to learn about this topic and get an idea if this is something I want to, or I'm even capable of diving into and coming out successful.

 

[JakePSD]

Well I bought the ATSG book for the 5R55 S/W for $25 on Amazon. We'll see how comfortable I feel about this after flipping through it.

 

[JakePSD]

I know I've asked a lot of questions but does anyone have any answers for the unanswered ones?

 

[JK080]

How much do shops usually charge to sleeve the case? How much am I looking at for price on all those parts? I looked on rock auto and found a rebuild kit for $250ish, I'll have to look if it has all those parts, and a converter for $100 plus core. On the converters, I remember reading on here somewhere that the 04+ converters stronger. I asked for a bit of elaboration on that but the poster must not have seen it. Not sure if he meant the older was weaker strength wise or just how "tight" it felt. What, if any, are better sources for trans parts than rock auto?

For the flow valve, is it possible that I could change that and have a usuable transmission? Anything to look for on disassembly to get an idea if that'll work?

Where can I buy a new thrust bearing? I kinda hate to use a used one being as this one already failed. Seems like a lot of work to fix just to use a replacement part that could be on the verge of failing, unless that is a very uncommon thing. As far as solenoid blocks go, I actually have 2 more v6 transmissions as well. Long story. Other than the bell housing, is there any difference between v6 and v8 transmissions? Other than the OD planetary, are there any differences between the W and S?

Sorry for all the questions. Just trying to learn about this topic and get an idea if this is something I want to, or I'm even capable of diving into and coming out successful.

I charged 100.00 clean and sleeve the case for the guy I helped. Shops may not do this for you but hopefully you can find a cool shop that dont mind helping and I dont know what they might charge.

I get my parts at a discount from places like Transtar, WIT, TPU, ect. I have never used Rock Auto but it seems like the DIY people use them with success, 100.00 for the converter seems cheap. I do not know of the 04+ converters being any "stronger" or at least no one has told me otherwise.

The only way to know all you need is the pump flow valve for you spare is to inspect the entire transmission or you will have to take a chance.

The thrust bearings do fail but it is few and far between in my world, you should be fine using a used one.

The only difference you might see between the v6 and v8 transmissions is maybe one extra clutch in the coast clutch and that's a maybe. The only differences between the S and W will be the overdrive planetary gear set ratio.

 

[transman304]

I don't know what part of Ohio you are in? But I am in Morgantown WV and would be willing to sleeve the case and help you through the rebuild with parts and questions for a cost better than shop rates. Contact me through Facebook @ "Otto Matics"
Thanks Brad

 

[JakePSD]

I charged 100.00 clean and sleeve the case for the guy I helped. Shops may not do this for you but hopefully you can find a cool shop that dont mind helping and I dont know what they might charge.

I get my parts at a discount from places like Transtar, WIT, TPU, ect. I have never used Rock Auto but it seems like the DIY people use them with success, 100.00 for the converter seems cheap. I do not know of the 04+ converters being any "stronger" or at least no one has told me otherwise.

The only way to know all you need is the pump flow valve for you spare is to inspect the entire transmission or you will have to take a chance.

The thrust bearings do fail but it is few and far between in my world, you should be fine using a used one.

The only difference you might see between the v6 and v8 transmissions is maybe one extra clutch in the coast clutch and that's a maybe. The only differences between the S and W will be the overdrive planetary gear set ratio.

I called one shop thats local and they said they'd sleeve it for $100 or so.

I'll check out those places too as long as they sell to regular guys that aren't shops.

I guess if I am as far in as inspecting the whole thing, might as well throw in new clutches and bands. As much of a pain as it is to pull these, I don't wanna do it any more than I have to. It's not the worst thing I've ever done, but those top bolts on the V8 are impossible to get to without pulling the intake manifold from what I can tell, unless there is a trick I'm not familiar with.

As far as the interchange of parts, the reason I asked is because since I have so many spares, I could use different parts from different transmissions if needed.

I don't know what part of Ohio you are in? But I am in Morgantown WV and would be willing to sleeve the case and help you through the rebuild with parts and questions for a cost better than shop rates. Contact me through Facebook @ "Otto Matics"
Thanks Brad

Unfortunately I'm pretty far away. I'm about an hour south of toledo. About 3 hours from the WV border. Probably wouldn't be cost effective. I appreciate the offer though. Unless you cut me one hell of a deal to drive down with my old one and trade it with some cash for an already rebuild one. Or a good deal on driving down there and just helping you rebuild it in a day.

 

[JakePSD]

Well my book was supposed to be here yesterday, it wasn't, so I looked at my orders on amazon and for some reason it was cancelled, card declined for some reason. Looks like it'll be another week before I get one and decide what I'm gonna do.