No Spark or Fuel

[AmetureMech]

Hi there. I have a 2000 Explorer V6 OHV 4x4 with a 5speed manual tranny. The other day driving to work it died on me. just cut out in the middle of 4th at like 2.2k RPM. truck was running smooth before with no lights and no issues at all

I notice that i still have oil pressure when I go to turn the ignition so i know i have compression.

I also notice that there is no telltale fuel pump sounds when I turn the ignition on.

First thing I try to do is eliminate the top three things. Spark, Compression (which I know I have) and Fuel.

Ok so Lets check for spark. I take a screwdriver and pull off a cap. No telltale arcing
So maybe I cant see the spark due to daylight. I buy a can of ether and spray it in while someone cranks it. Nothing. Ok so I change the coil pack. Still nothing...

Now Im at a dead end so I decide to check on the fuel pump.
I pull the rear harness plug, tap to the pump, and send it 12v. it runs fine! pumping and everything!

Plug it back in, and nothing.

Please keep in mind I recently change fuel pump relay, and I checked all the fuses. When I put the key in the on position the relay doesnt click. but when i start it, i can feel it click. there is also a relay under the dash thats clicking that i never knew was there before. but i even tried changing that relay and to no avail.

So now im thinking, ok maybe its the CPS (crankshaft sensor). but i recently just changed that. so whatever i go to the autoparts store and buy a new one. Changed it. nothing.

Last thing i did was clean the Mass Airflow Sensor

so now here i am. Personally i think my PCM is fried. any thoughts, suggestions, and or ideas? anything would be greatly appreciated, as this is my work truck and i kind of need it to run.

Thank you in advance for all your help!

206k on the truck

 

[koda2000]

1. Oil pressure has nothing to do with whether you have compression.

2. I don't know how you're checking for spark because you don't have a "cap" on a 2000 Explorer. A 2000 would have distributor-less ignition.

Your fuel pump has most likely died if you can't hear it hum when you turn the key ON. It's almost impossible that you lost fuel pressure and spark simultaneously. Start by checking fuel pressure at the fuel rail using a gauge. The 2000 SOHC and V8 engines should show about 65 PSI of fuel pressure at the rail. I don't know about the OHV, but I would assume it would be the same.

There are a lot of things to be checking to determine why your engine wont run. Swap the fuel pump relay with a similar relay in the power distribution box. Check/trip and reset the inertia switch for the fuel pump (found over the passenger side kick panel). The crank position sensor and it's harness/connector are suspect if in fact you're not getting spark. I'd suggest taking a convenient spark plug wire off a plug and sticking a spare spark plug in it. Using a battery jumper cable, ground the spark plug and crank the engine to check for a good strong spark. Don't ground the spark plug with your hand, because that coil will knock you on your ass if it fires.

 

[AmetureMech]

1. Oil pressure has nothing to do with whether you have compression.

2. I don't know how you're checking for spark because you don't have a "cap" on a 2000 Explorer. A 2000 would have distributor-less ignition.

Your fuel pump has most likely died if you can't hear it hum when you turn the key ON. It's almost impossible that you lost fuel pressure and spark simultaneously. Start by checking fuel pressure at the fuel rail using a gauge. The 2000 SOHC and V8 engines should show about 65 PSI of fuel pressure at the rail. I don't know about the OHV, but I would assume it would be the same.

There are a lot of things to be checking to determine why your engine wont run. Swap the fuel pump relay with a similar relay in the power distribution box. Check/trip and reset the inertia switch for the fuel pump (found over the passenger side kick panel). The crank position sensor and it's harness/connector are suspect if in fact you're not getting spark. I'd suggest taking a convenient spark plug wire off a plug and sticking a spare spark plug in it. Using a battery jumper cable, ground the spark plug and crank the engine to check for a good strong spark. Don't ground the spark plug with your hand, because that coil will knock you on your ass if it fires.

ok well theres no leaking oil from underneath the motor. i took a wire off my "distributorless ignition" and put a screwdriver in one and had someone start the car while i looked for an arc. nothing.

you didnt read the part where i said i jumped the pump with 12v. it works fine.

i already swapped all the relays.
checked the inertia switch
litterally just replaced my CPS two months ago. i changed it again today. didnt work so i boxed it up and im bringing it back.
Spark plugs are brand new as well.
theres no reason for me to check fuel pressure. the pump isnt kicking on. but when i turn it on manually i have good pressure at the rail (no gauge but i pressed the scrader and gas sprayed everywhere)

ive been reading the forums for days so can we all just assume that ive changed relays, checked fuses, regrounded corroded grounds etc. im serious i think my PCM is blown and im trying to think of any other system that would kill the fuel pump and ignition system at the same time.

and yes. i lost both systems at once. ive had a few mechanics here scratching there heads. so when i say ive tried checking everything...i mean everything. maybe theres a hidden fuse or relay? i dont think so.

if this helps. i went to the fuel pump relay on the PCM, and got no voltage

 

[AmetureMech]

and say i did lose compression in a cylinder or two, is that a reason for the car to just STOP running immediately, after running smoothly with no issues. i mean i went from full power to nothing in the blink of an eye

 

[koda2000]

and say i did lose compression in a cylinder or two, is that a reason for the car to just STOP running immediately, after running smoothly with no issues. i mean i went from full power to nothing in the blink of an eye

Well, your original post was an awful lot to read, but I did later read where you jumped your pump with 12V and got the pump to run.

If you lost compression in a cylinder or two, you'd have some serious internal damage and the engine probably wouldn't run. You stated you have the OHV V6 engine, so jumping time would be pretty unusual. On the SOHC V6 jumping time is quite common and results in bent valves. That's usually the death of the SOHC engine. Even if you did jump time and bend valves you'd still have spark and fuel.

IDK if you're PCM is your issue. Anything is possible I guess.

 

[Runnin'OnEmpty]

Maybe check with a scanner to see if there's a code pending.
A code will point to the problem, but my guess would be
something electrical to shut the engine down so quickly.

Could be the cam sensor, but I believe the engine will still
run when that fails...?

 

[koda2000]

Cam sensor going out wouldn't stop it from running.

 

[Turdle]

Does the check engine light come on when the key is turned on? yes--no

Was the check engine being displayed when the engine was running ? yes-no

 

[Mbrooks420]

Pull a plug wire, and put a plug in it, set the plug on a grounded surface to check for spark. No
Oil leaking from the motor means nothing for this situation. If you were super low on compression in two cylinders it'd still run. Since it didn't run on ether, it's not fuel related.

 

[bigred4x4]

The ohv is a non valve interference motor so I wouldn't worry about internal damage due to skipped timing but even if the timing is off it could only be caused by the crank trigger or cam sensor the cam sensor is for injector timing the crank trigger is more for spark and they kinda check each other too Id guess ..... Unless you broke a timing chain(your cps is ran off the cam which then turns the oil pump shaft you would have no oil pressure if that was the case) or didn't install the cps correctly did you install the cps with the proper alignment tool? With the #1 cylinder at tdc? you can do a cold compression check if it makes you feel better but it's likely electrical. I'd recheck those two sensors and well if your not getting voltage at the pcm pins then my next move would be to try a junk yard pcm and see if that works they are known to fail after awhile .

 

[AmetureMech]

The ohv is a non valve interference motor so I wouldn't worry about internal damage due to skipped timing but even if the timing is off it could only be caused by the crank trigger or cam sensor the cam sensor is for injector timing the crank trigger is more for spark and they kinda check each other too Id guess ..... Unless you broke a timing chain(your cps is ran off the cam which then turns the oil pump shaft you would have no oil pressure if that was the case) or didn't install the cps correctly did you install the cps with the proper alignment tool? With the #1 cylinder at tdc? you can do a cold compression check if it makes you feel better but it's likely electrical. I'd recheck those two sensors and well if your not getting voltage at the pcm pins then my next move would be to try a junk yard pcm and see if that works they are known to fail after awhile .

didnt know the CPS had an alignment tool. no i did not do any of that with TDC. but i had issues with the CPS, (inttermitant starting issues when warm) and changed it (immediately solved the problem)

also i did this by taking off passenger tire. there was a little hole on the rubber mud guard, and i stuck my hand in there and was able to reach the CPS without removing the OHV....

 

[bigred4x4]

And there's also a shorting bar installed in a connector near the cam sensor make sure that is in place.

 

[AmetureMech]

Does the check engine light come on when the key is turned on? yes--no

Was the check engine being displayed when the engine was running ? yes-no

in that order

no, but it does when i crank it for awhile (no code reader anyone have good suggestions?)
no, had a misfire in cyl 6, changed plugs and solved that too (about a month before this)

 

[AmetureMech]

Does the check engine light come on when the key is turned on? yes--no

Was the check engine being displayed when the engine was running ? yes-no

in that order

no, but it does when i crank it for awhile (no code reader anyone have good suggestions?)
no, had a misfire in cyl 6, changed plugs and solved that too (about a month before this)

 

[bigred4x4]

Well come to think of it if you only replaced the hall sensor and not the drive gear assembly along with it(that could be broke) then you don't need the alignment tool . Which you probably didn't because it's a pain to mesh it with the cam it was hard enough for me while the engine was on a stand, and out of the truck.

 

[AmetureMech]

And there's also a shorting bar installed in a connector near the cam sensor make sure that is in place.

ill look tomorrow and let you know. but as of right now

Key in ignition, turned once. accessories come on, windows everything dash etc

position two, no fuel pump noise. just the relay under the dash clicking.

start position

cranks cranks cranks cranks...cranks.....the fuel pump relay under the hood clicks, but no power goes to it.

damn i mean i even jumped the pump and tried starting the truck.....nothing....so something has to be interrupting BOTH....again why i go back to PCM. but a few people have said NOTHING would work if the PCM was burnt....


also CPS issues have never killed my pump, but from what i understand it is possible. i will let you know about the short bar. first i have to find out what it looks like haha

 

[AmetureMech]

Well come to think of it if you only replaced the hall sensor and not the drive gear assembly along with it(that could be broke) then you don't need the alignment tool .

yeah just the sensor, not the actual mechanical below

 

[AmetureMech]

thanks again everyone for your input! this is my work truck and all of this is greatly appreciated.

 

[bigred4x4]

..... I'd just replace the pcm and go from there. I don't see them costing much at a junk yard. Unless somebody has a simple method to test the computer for function without fancy tools.

The only other thing I could see is a shorted wire coming off the key cylinder or ignition switch or something so the pcm doesn't know to prime fuel and produce spark .

 

[AmetureMech]

..... I'd just replace the pcm and go from there. I don't see them costing much at a junk yard. Unless somebody has a simple method to test the computer for function without fancy tools.

PCM from Ohio 35 shipped

now i have to tow the car to ford and have them reprogram the PCM

fortunately a friend of mine works directly with one of the dealerships, so i may be able to get a tech and a laptop to my house for a reprogram (gonna give the guy 50 bucks haha) aaannndd from there ill let you guys know....as of now that is not untill this friday....so if anyone can think of a wire, or something else stupid like that (regrounded my PCM, took out the stud, exposed metal on the body and put it back) please dont be scared to join explorer forums and post!