Spongy Brake Pedal

[jkexplorer]

I’ve replaced the front and rear pads on my 2000 Explorer 4x4. The brake pedal seemed somewhat spongy after the pad replacement, and since the brake fluid hasn’t been replaced for awhile I flushed/bled the system using a pressure bleeder (Speedi-bleed). The pedal still felt spongy, so about a week later I repeated the bleeding procedure. I believe there may have been a minor improvement, but the pedal still feels spongier then before I replaced the pads, unless it is my imagination. According to the Haynes Repair Manual, since this is a year 2000 Explorer, there should be no issues with air getting trapped in the master cylinder or the HCU. In any case I believe that I did nothing to introduce air into the system. When I bleed the brakes, there doesn’t appear to be any air coming out of the calipers. Any suggestions on what else I can do to improve on this spongy brake pedal will be appreciated.

 

[mrboyle]

When you replaced the pads did you clean and lube the caliper sliders? If not its possible you have some stuck sliders and this is causing the caliper to loose contact with the pads and causing the spongy feeling.

 

[jkexplorer]

Thank you for your advice. I did lube the caliper sliders, but nevertheless I think it's worth looking at this again just in case some dirt got in there or I did an inadequate job.

 

[jkexplorer]

Recleaned and relubed the caliper sliders again with Permatex brake caliper grease. No improvement. Pedal still feels spongy. Any other suggestions are greatly appreciated.

 

[EMG7895]

Are you sure everthing is tight and its not leaking anywhere?

 

[410Fortune]

a 2000 4x4 uses caliper slide pins????
I thought those were a TTB item only.
The later models use caliper slide bolts, right?


spongly pedal = air in the system.
Could be a RABS valve on there that needs bleeding, I am not too familiar with the 2000 model.
When you did the brakes you did not press the pedal withouth calipers and pads installed did you?
Have you run the truck to get vacuum into the booster?

I am not su sure about those pressure bleeders myself, I prefer the old friend on the pedal, me on the bleeders.....

 

[jkexplorer]

Checked everything and see no leaks. The front calipers use slide pins. The back calipers have long bolts that go through a bushing. I believe it is these bushing that provides the caliper sliding. I greased everything, including the bolts. I did not press the pedal without calipers and pads installed. That would be a definite NO NO. The pressure bleeder I used works off tire pressure and has a built in pressure regulator. It is actually a very convenient device. Bled the brakes twice. The pedal does feel harder prior to starting the car. Spongier when the car is running. I assume that to bleed the RABS valve special tools are required. Final solution would be to take it to a dealer, but hopefully I haven't exhausted all other options.

 

[410Fortune]

I doubt your ABS module has a bleeder, all teh 4wabs systems I have seen from Ford do not require bleeding of the module.

I know the bleeder you speak of, it does work great, I am just old fashioned I guess.

Dealer is an option, or any good brake place, how spongy is it? I mean to the floor and no brakes or what?

 

[jkexplorer]

The pedal feels spongy but does not go down to the floor under normal braking conditions. If I am stopped and continue pressing on the pedal, it slowly goes down farther, but again not all the way to the floor. It is not a condition where I can't drive the car, but it is definitely not as good as it was prior to the new brake installation. I also used to bleed the brakes the old fashioned way but this bleeder was a birthday present from my wife and I just couldn't "refuse" a present. The nice thing with this bleeder is that you can do a clean job yourself without needing to recruit someone to help you.

 

[410Fortune]

it is natural for the pedal to continue down when stopped if you keep pushing harder.

What type of pads did you install?

Sounds to me like possible air trapped in the system.

 

[jkexplorer]

I bought the pads from Kragen Auto Supply. They are Raybestos "Super-Stop" semi-metallic pads. It does seem as if there is air trapped somewhere in the system, but I can't figure out how it got there, where the air is, and how to get it out!!! Normal bleeding doesn't seem to do the job.

 

[410Fortune]

Have you contacted a dealer? Ask them if there is a ABS module on the 2000 tha requires bleeding.

ON some trucks air can get trapped in the lines, and bleeding doesnt always get it out, like for example if the brake line goes up and over the frame rail then back down again, a little bubble of air can sit at the top and move back and forth as fluid goes by, it doesnt always get forced out, even with a pressure bleeder.
Your best bet is to gravity bleed them for a while, meaning, bench bleed the master if it ever got air in the res, open all 4 bleeders and keep filling the resevoir as it goes down, you can let gravity bleed the system for a little while, drink a few beers, then use your power bleeder.

If there is a ABS valve with a bleeder I got $20 says you have air in it, if there is not (I dount there is on a 2000) then I suggest trying the bleed process again, possibly by hand even

 

[jkexplorer]

Thanks for the advice. I will call the dealer and see if they can shed some light on this. Gravity bleeding all four wheels at once followed by pressure bleeding sounds interesting. I may try it this weekend, have nothing to loose.

Thanks again!!!

 

[5.0 explorer]

the abs module doesn't have a bleeder, but there is a sequence when bleeding the system with the abs system. unfortunately I don't know it :fire: I will ask tomorrow at work.
did you use motorcraft pads??
personally I think that this may be all in your head. we have customers that take the car or truck home and end up calling the dealership stating that the brakes don't feel right. after replacing pads and rotors (explicitly if you machine the rotors) it takes the brakes a few hundred miles or regular driving to seat them right. and you get the feel for the peddle again
I have been told, you should never open the brake system unless you have a leak
I would check all the flex lines and make sure they are not bubbling when the brake is being applied, i have seen that once.

 

[jgilbs]

proper brake bleeding procedure is bleed the brakes starting at the brakes farthest from the master cylinder continuing to the closest. i know on my 92 its rear pass, rear drivers, front pass, front driver.

 

[jkexplorer]

I've bled the brakes using the same procedure as I've always used on other cars. Starting with rear right (passenger) wheel, rear left wheel, front right wheel, front left wheel. This is the procedure that is also listed in the Haynes Ford Explorer repair manual. Please let me know if this is an incorrect sequence. As far as the possibility that all this is in my head, I guess at this point I would say I hope so. By the way I've probably driven at least 600 miles on the new brakes so I believe they are properly seated by now. I haven't checked the flex lines but certainly will do that too. As far as the recommendation to not open the brake system unless there is a leak, everything I've read states that brake fluid needs to be replaced every two years because of hight temperature operation and moisture absorption. I've simply timed this procedure to coincide with the pad replacement.

 

[410Fortune]

Sorry to answer your question I am currently running ceramic pads up front and semi metallic in the rear. I have found while the ceramic pads work excellent, I think they grab a little too well, on a lifted TTB truck like mine this can cause the front beams to pulse, as the pad skips over the rotor. I will be going back to the Reabestos semi metallic (red ones) when these ceramic pads wear out

that is the proper proceedure for bleeding....

 

[friech]

Q: Are the brakes spongy when the system is cold or does it get spongy after you have driven for awhile and have let the pads and rotors warm up?

 

[jkexplorer]

That is an interesting point. Actually the reverse is true. The brake feel is somewhat better after I've driven for awhile and everything has warmed up.

 

[spta97]

I recently replaced all 4 rotors and pads on my 2000 V8 AWD. I too notice exactly what you are describing. You come to a full stop not having to depress the brake pedal all the way but when you are stopped you can go another 1/2 way down to the floor right?

I'm thinking that the pads are grabbing much higher in the pedal than before I replaced the brakes. My pads were down to nothing so I probably had to go much further down with my foot than I do now. I was thining about bleeding the brakes but after reading your post I wonder if it is just the way this truck is? It stops MUCH better now but I guess because I don't have a positive stop on the pedal they feel much different.

I used Autozone rotors and ceramic pads for the front and semi-metalic for the back. I like the low-dust of the ceramics so much I'm thinking of re-doing the backs with them.