defroster door lever broken

[john cris]

Hey everyone,
I've got a 2003 Explorer XLT that doesn't send any air to the defrost vents. I checked it out and found a broken lever that connects the door/flapper to the vacuum motor. I've looked everywhere for that part and just can't find it. I've looked at modifying it just to make it work but mine snapped off the piece that actually plugs into the defrost door. Glue won't be strong enough. Hopefully the pic's will show what I mean.
Any ideas where I can get this part, short of ordering a whole new assembly?

 

[gtyates]

I think you are stuck buying the whole air box... By the way, how did you get to this? I think the arm to my defroster door is not attached to the actuator. I get a heat/defrost blend when trying to use either heat or defrost. My a/c and vent work properly. All of the other actuators are working properly as I have dropped the glove box, pulled the radio surround, and watched them all operate properly,. but I can't figure out how to get to the defroster actuator to see if the arm has broken on it. Any help appreciated.

 

[john cris]

I think you are stuck buying the whole air box... By the way, how did you get to this? I think the arm to my defroster door is not attached to the actuator. I get a heat/defrost blend when trying to use either heat or defrost. My a/c and vent work properly. All of the other actuators are working properly as I have dropped the glove box, pulled the radio surround, and watched them all operate properly,. but I can't figure out how to get to the defroster actuator to see if the arm has broken on it. Any help appreciated.

 

[john cris]

After removing that face plate and the radio here is what I did:
To get the upper air box out I had to cut both plenums, and the center support for the radio. Make sure you cut that center support back far enough so it is out of the way enough to get the upper air box out. I just used some foil tape to put the plenums back together and I used a small piece of bar stock to put the center support back together. You will need a right angle drill to make that work. I think JB weld might also work. I hope the pic's help.

 

[gtyates]

Thanks, the images are helpful. Do you have any images that show the actuator arm attached? I am hopeful that mine is only partially broken and I can rig up a way to reconnect the actuator. It is working, I can hear it move. Anything else you have available is greatly appreciated!

 

[gary ds]

After removing that face plate and the radio here is what I did:
To get the upper air box out I had to cut both plenums, and the center support for the radio. Make sure you cut that center support back far enough so it is out of the way enough to get the upper air box out. I just used some foil tape to put the plenums back together and I used a small piece of bar stock to put the center support back together. You will need a right angle drill to make that work. I think JB weld might also work. I hope the pic's help.

View attachment 95770

View attachment 95771

View attachment 95772

I have the same damage, same 2003 xlt; so I can pull the air box out the front of the dash by cutting and get to the broken flapper door arm? Do you have a picture of the air box removed? Did you get another flapper door or repair? The pics do help, thank you.

 

[john cris]

gt , Unfortunately I don't have a picture of the actuator arm attached. But their is another similar arm on the air box that you can look at as a reference. I had a hard time figuring out exactly how the arm should be reinstalled until I realized the other arm is the same, just a bit larger. That plastic arm that connects the vacuum pot/motor is not available for purchase that I could find. As you said, short of buying a whole air box assembly it is just not available. I was not willing to spend several hundred dollars on a new air box to get this fixed . After I spent several hours repairing that broken arm I thought maybe an online 3D printing service may have been able to help. I did not pursue that angle but may do so in the future.
Gary,
I don't have a picture of the air box removed but you can definitely get it out by cutting those plenums and the support bracket. It's important that you're careful where you make your cuts. The flapper door was undamaged and needed no repair. Once you get it apart you'll see what I mean. Repairing that arm was tricky though.
good luck guys
John Cris

 

[gtyates]

Again, your answers are very helpful. One last question. The actuator is to the left of the plenum shown in your images, correct? Assuming so, there is no way to get to the actuator without either cutting or removing the plenum?

 

[john cris]

Yes the defrost door actuator (yellow vacuum hose) is on the left. The pic's don't show it at all. There was no way I could see to get that upper air box otta there without cutting like I did. I toyed with removing the dash for quite awhile and actually began removing a lot of stuff and just got to a point where I realized how much longer it was going to take to get that damn dash off. You know how it goes, once you've done it, the next time it goes twice as fast. You also begin to see short cuts you could have taken. I used a write-up from this forum to guide me in taking the dash apart, even still it was daunting. After the fact the cuts I had to make seem to make the job fairly easy. The actual repair of that arm was the tricky part. Also, I had that dash ,center console and instrument cluster completely removed in an attempt to see the vacuum pot/motor and the damaged arm. What a waste of time. If I had just made those cuts to begin with this repair would have gone much quicker. So I posted here cuz I've gotten so much help from this forum and want to give back at least a little bit. I can't emphasize enough how it may be worth it to look at having that arm "3D printed". If you get to that arm and find it irreparable check out the 3D thing. Let me know and we may be able to split costs
JCris

 

[gtyates]

I have watched a couple of youtube videos that seem to indicate if we remove the instrument cluster we can get to the defroster actuator to see if the arm is possibly repairable. Has anyone tried this?

Remove cluster: https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/...=5a9c7934dacab370d6105cd555859c0e&action=view

Repair acutator arm: https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/...=96387215fa5187358b2a6bc1cd9fc90a&action=view

 

[john cris]

yeah if you remove the cluster you will be able to see it but you won't be able to remove that vac pot/motor. there are 2 screws holding it in place, one is easy to get too, the other isn't. EVEN IF somehow you could finagle it off you would still not be able to do the repair

 

[gtyates]

Today I had some free time to look at this defroster actuator. By removing the instrument cluster you can get to it. I had watched the video of the person that placed a screw in the actuator arm and I honestly did not understand why until I was able to watch it operate. Basically as the actuator is closing it does pull the flap door arm down too far and it actually pulls the arm partially out. Bad design. The actuator is probably mounted about 1/2" too low vs. the flap door location. I can't find a way to do the screw modification without removing the actuator. After watching the video of the actuator, and then watching my own, the problem is obvious. However, for me, until the flap breaks totally and we lose either the defroster or the heater, it will stay like it is. Basically what I am experiencing is the heater/defroster are always on blend. I was able to very gently bend the actuator arm towards the air box and that has helped a little, but t will have to stay as is for now.. To my surprise the plastic arm is not broken and is still attached to the actuator.

 

[john cris]

I think your actuator arm has broken similar to mine. The tip of that arm has broken. Take another look at the first couple of pic's I posted and you will see.

 

[gtyates]

John Chris, I am afraid you are correct. One more question. Since you have installed the air box and a new arm, my question is does the arm simply press into the box or did it come already installed with the new air box that you installed? What has prompted this question is that the actuator is pulling the arm out when the actuator is closing, so I am curious if that arm is designed to pull out/push in. You are best to answer since you have installed this item. Assuming I have to replace this air box, the next issue will be finding the part to purchase.. What a stupid design!!!

 

[john cris]

gt,
The arm is pressed into the flapper. The shape of it clips it in place and prevents it from rotating. That arm is not available anywhere so you are stuck buying a new air box assembly or finding a used arm in a junkyard. I was able to repair the arm as I could not find one that wasn't already damaged in a local junkyard. You really need to pull the upper air box to see exactly what I'm talking about.

 

[gtyates]

John Chris, your answers have been very helpful. Your images, plus pulling my radio and instrument cluster have given me a good idea of how this works. What were you able to do to repair it, and did it work? And related, is the tip that breaks off solid plastic or hollow? I am thinking that if it is solid maybe a long screw of some sort can be run through the arm and re-attach the broken tip? Like you, I am trying to save a $1000 repair cost... This truck will be for my 16 year old son, and obviously I want the defroster working properly, but I don't want to spend that much to get it fixed. I am not ambitious or brave enough to take the entire dash out... I have seen the air box for sale a few places for around $275-$300. For me this is so frustrating because otherwise our Explorer has been very reliable. Only major repair has been the rear wheel bearings, another overly expensive repair due to design.. We have around 125k miles on ours, it is 4x4, leather, moonroof, and a great vehicle for a 16 year old to finish off...

 

[john cris]

I understand completely. Looking back I wish I'd taken some pic's of what I did but......
To answer your questions: yes my repair did work and has for several weeks now and the tip of that arm is a solid piece. Before I try and relate exactly what I did to repair this I want to reiterate , the best solution might still be having a 3D printing service make one for you. I have no idea what this would cost but if you were to pursue this I may be willing to split cost with you. I think our costs could be reduced or even eliminated (over time) by having several of these parts made up and just offering them up for sale online. Who knows?
Alright, here is what I did:
The shape of that tip does 2 things, it holds the arm in place and prevents it from rotating in the flapper. After looking at this several times I decided any type of glue would not last very long, and I damn sure only wanted to do this once haha. So, I chose to replace the tip with an aluminum dowel. The base of the plastic where it breaks off is 5/16 " diameter. I used a handle from a small utility knife I to make a replacement tip. Aluminum is easy to shape and the handle was 5/16". (see Picture) . You will need to drill a hole down the center of the arm to press the aluminum piece into it. This was tricky cuz if the drill walks you end up with a broken part and no way to repair it. I drilled a small pilot hole down the center and followed with a larger bit until I reached 5/16". A sharp bit is crucial as well as drilling slowly. If the bit grabs the part may crack and then your screwed. Honestly I think I was just lucky during this step as I did this with a handheld drill and it grabbed a few times during drilling. I held the part in my hand to do this which allowed me to release the part quickly when it began to grab. I hope that makes sense. Once you get the arm drilled out the aluminum rod needs to be cut to length. You can figure that length by how deep the tip of the rod needs to go into the flapper. It was approximately 1/2". The tip of the rod then needs to be shaped so it fits into the flapper. I used a hand file for this. The plastic tip is shaped like a "T" and filing that rod into that shape was problematic. I decided to just file it enough to just get the rod to seat all the way down into the flapper. If you get to this point you will see what I mean. After you have a rod that is cut to length and shaped properly you will need to install it permanently in the plastic arm. Glue might work for this but I chose to pin it using a small piece of wire, I used a coat hanger. I pinned it in 2 spots, near the flapper and also on the other end. You need to be sure that pin doesn't stick out as that will impede rotation. The last part is assembly of the vacuum pot/motor and new arm into the upper air box. With the air box sitting on the center console and vacuum line ( yellow tubing) hooked up I turned on the key to the ignition position, to give power to the heater and then I put the selector knob for the heater in the defrost position. This will push the control arm on the vacuum pot out into a position so that the flapper is rotated into the open position for defrost. Somehow you need to mark that spot so you know where to pin the flapper. I did not pay attention to this the first time and the flapper was not rotating properly. It's important that you get this spot right cuz if it's off you end up putting to much pressure on your repaired part and it may fail. And after all this work that would lead to a LOT of cursing . This was all done with a part that was over 15 years old. I inspected the part under a magnifying glass for any cracks especially in the area that attaches to the vacuum pot/motor as that seemed to be a common spot for failure.
Again, looking back on this I wish I'd had this 3D printed. In order to get this "printed" I would need a complete part for the printing service to program. I don't have that option now as I've modified mine. I may just go down to the local junkyard today and have a look around . That is of course your other option, cuz if you have the time you may be able to find one that isn't broken. Clearly this was a lot of work and the long term reliability is probably questionable. But I'm retired and apparently have to much time on my hands. lol
The picture shows the utility knife handle I sacrificed for this. The smooth section on the right hand side is what I used.
I do intend to got to the junkyard today and see if I can find anything

 

[john cris]

I understand completely. Looking back I wish I'd taken some pic's of what I did but......
To answer your questions: yes my repair did work and has for several weeks now and the tip of that arm is a solid piece. Before I try and relate exactly what I did to repair this I want to reiterate , the best solution might still be having a 3D printing service make one for you. I have no idea what this would cost but if you were to pursue this I may be willing to split cost with you. I think our costs could be reduced or even eliminated (over time) by having several of these parts made up and just offering them up for sale online. Who knows?
Alright, here is what I did:
The shape of that tip does 2 things, it holds the arm in place and prevents it from rotating in the flapper. After looking at this several times I decided any type of glue would not last very long, and I damn sure only wanted to do this once haha. So, I chose to replace the tip with an aluminum dowel. The base of the plastic where it breaks off is 5/16 " diameter. I used a handle from a small utility knife I to make a replacement tip. Aluminum is easy to shape and the handle was 5/16". (see Picture) . You will need to drill a hole down the center of the arm to press the aluminum piece into it. This was tricky cuz if the drill walks you end up with a broken part and no way to repair it. I drilled a small pilot hole down the center and followed with a larger bit until I reached 5/16". A sharp bit is crucial as well as drilling slowly. If the bit grabs the part may crack and then your screwed. Honestly I think I was just lucky during this step as I did this with a handheld drill and it grabbed a few times during drilling. I held the part in my hand to do this which allowed me to release the part quickly when it began to grab. I hope that makes sense. Once you get the arm drilled out the aluminum rod needs to be cut to length. You can figure that length by how deep the tip of the rod needs to go into the flapper. It was approximately 1/2". The tip of the rod then needs to be shaped so it fits into the flapper. I used a hand file for this. The plastic tip is shaped like a "T" and filing that rod into that shape was problematic. I decided to just file it enough to just get the rod to seat all the way down into the flapper. If you get to this point you will see what I mean. After you have a rod that is cut to length and shaped properly you will need to install it permanently in the plastic arm. Glue might work for this but I chose to pin it using a small piece of wire, I used a coat hanger. I pinned it in 2 spots, near the flapper and also on the other end. You need to be sure that pin doesn't stick out as that will impede rotation. The last part is assembly of the vacuum pot/motor and new arm into the upper air box. With the air box sitting on the center console and vacuum line ( yellow tubing) hooked up I turned on the key to the ignition position, to give power to the heater and then I put the selector knob for the heater in the defrost position. This will push the control arm on the vacuum pot out into a position so that the flapper is rotated into the open position for defrost. Somehow you need to mark that spot so you know where to pin the flapper. I did not pay attention to this the first time and the flapper was not rotating properly. It's important that you get this spot right cuz if it's off you end up putting to much pressure on your repaired part and it may fail. And after all this work that would lead to a LOT of cursing . This was all done with a part that was over 15 years old. I inspected the part under a magnifying glass for any cracks especially in the area that attaches to the vacuum pot/motor as that seemed to be a common spot for failure.
Again, looking back on this I wish I'd had this 3D printed. In order to get this "printed" I would need a complete part for the printing service to program. I don't have that option now as I've modified mine. I may just go down to the local junkyard today and have a look around . That is of course your other option, cuz if you have the time you may be able to find one that isn't broken. Clearly this was a lot of work and the long term reliability is probably questionable. But I'm retired and apparently have to much time on my hands. lol
The picture shows the utility knife handle I sacrificed for this. The smooth section on the right hand side is what I used.
I do intend to got to the junkyard today and see if I can find anything

View attachment 95864

 

[gtyates]

John Chris, I applaud your efforts to make the defroster work. The 3D printing idea is not a bad one. Finding an intact part to replicate is probably the problem.. Fortunately for us the defroster vent is stuck open, so we do have the ability to clear the front window, just can't use heater only to warm up the feet on a cold day because when the heater door opens when selecting "heat" and with the defroster door stuck open we only get a mix of heat/defrost. But I am smart enough to know having a working defroster is probably a short-term thing, as I suspect at some point the door will flop closed and then we will have to do something! I love my 3 Fords, especially my Sport Trac, but design issues like this that lead to extremely expensive repairs are starting to make me re-think my next purchase.. I will probably bite the bullet and have the entire air box replaced at some point. I have a private mechanic that I can get to do the work at a more reasonable cost than the Ford dealer, but it will still not be a cheap repair.. This is still the perfect vehicle for my 16 year old son to drive for a little while, and other than this issue the truck is in excellent condition. We have owned it since 2008 when it had 30k miles on it. It has 123k now.

 

[Number Twelve]

I suspect at some point the door will flop closed and then we will have to do something!

I put the flap in the dash vent position and ran a screw into the pivot point so it can never move again.
I have heat, cool, and defrost sufficient for Florida.
It's almost always A/C here, the heater blows well out the floor vents, and I rarely need defrost.
When I do need defrost, it works just fine with a very diminished (compared to the original design) air flow.