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Tuning my 347 with rear mount turbo

Discussion in 'EEC V' started by Dono, January 29, 2016.

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    1. vroomzoomboom

      vroomzoomboom Elite Canuck STOCK SUCKS! Elite Explorer

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      did you want to look at my logs and tunes for your start up? i have noticed now that i found that massive crack in the mount it starts way better with very minimal surging
       
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    3. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

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      No, I'm absolutely sure its just my motor.
      Iv'e read and read. Iv'e tried all kinds of different techniques.
      I did email and speak with Don Lasota about the issue, and he said that some motor combinations are like that.
      Its just so finicky.
      Its a small thing, but a bit irritating just the same.
       
    4. Turdle

      Turdle I bake stuff Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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      Forgive my lack of attention, but are you still using the returnless fuel system, and if so the stock fuel damper? ( regulator looking thingy on fuel rails)
       
    5. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

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      Yup. stock fuel rails and fuel damper still attached (Hooked directly to manifold vacuum now). A 340 pump in returnless config and 6an fuel line from pump to fuel rails.
      No fuel starvation issues. One day I'll move to bigger rails just because..
       
    6. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

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      Im still struggling with exhaust smell and problems starting when the motors warm.

      I still think the issue is that I have the wrong 60lb injector file in my tune.

      I add the correct injector file, and it's like my narrow band o2's quit working.

      I asked Don Lasota for help. His best guess at this point is that my maf needs to me closer to my throttle body. So, I'm hoping to complete this project next weekend.

      I'm at a loss as to why a change of injector file causes this issue, so I'm more than willing to try anything.

      I'm thinking the wrong injector file is behind my issues. My motor is still doing great though. The rest is small stuff.
       
      Last edited: August 11, 2017
    7. vroomzoomboom

      vroomzoomboom Elite Canuck STOCK SUCKS! Elite Explorer

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      cant remember. did you ever copy anything from my tune and try it?
       
    8. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

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      No, not this. I tried applying the ford racing 60#v2 injector file, and it would seem like the narrow band 02s wouldn't read and I get results completely different than what my wide band would be telling me.

      Don Lasota sent me a different file with the correct injectors for my truck (the ones I couldn't get to work) and the results were the same as mine.

      Don sent me another file with all learning shut off so he could see the maf and make sure the computer wasn't defaulting to load with failed maf table. His best guess is that the maf is too far away causing issues. The maf is under my truck, as I felt having it there in a nice long straight run just after the intercooler straightening the air would be an ideal spot. We will find out if its a problem, or not, after I move it.

      Any way I look at it, its probably better for the maf sensor to be under the hood.
       
    9. 4pointslow

      4pointslow Explorer Torture Tester Elite Explorer

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      If the injector data is way different from the one you are using you could end up with a way rich or lean mixture when trying to switch back to the correct one.
      A misfire caused by a rich or lean mixture will cause lots of O2 in the exhaust (from either type of misfire).
      So the misfire could cause what looks like a lean condition when it really is rich. That would sure make it hard to tune the MAF transfer function.

      It will be cool if moving the maf closer fixes the problem, but if it doesn't let me know.
      The other thing I am thinking is do you know for sure what injectors you really have, have you been able to get the part number off them?
      Just wondering because it is critical to get the right injector data entered into the tune or nothing seems to work right sometimes.
       
    10. vroomzoomboom

      vroomzoomboom Elite Canuck STOCK SUCKS! Elite Explorer

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      another thing don, when was the last time you rest your wideband?
       
    11. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

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      Tim, with the correct injector data, the narrow band o2's just don't seem to work. Its really weird. I haven't calibrated my wideband for a while, but this is a different issue.

      4point, I'm 99.99% sure I have the Siemens Deka 63lbs/hr EV6 Injector Part #108191. I'm sure these are the ford racing 60#v2 value file. I'm out of town till tomorrow evening, so ill try to remove that other .01% doubt I have on the injector part number then.
       
    12. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

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      I have to wonder if I ended up with knock off china style injectors. that would make sense to me as to why I'm struggling with this.
      They did come from Henson performance, and I trust hi completely, but I'm not absolutely sure if he was sold knock offs without knowing.
       
    13. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

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      Ok, I can clearly see the part numbers 108191 and C283A02281

      The 108191 part number is the injector I thought I had.
      4Point, can you confirm that I use the value file "Ford Racing 60# [M-9593-LU60] v2"? They sure look the same.

      injector parrt number.jpg
       
      Last edited: August 13, 2017
    14. 4pointslow

      4pointslow Explorer Torture Tester Elite Explorer

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      108191 is the Seimens Deka 60 lb injector.
      What you need to do next is find the datasheet from them and compare it to the numbers you see in the tune when you add the value file.
      Take a stock tune, load the value file and compare the low and high slope numbers to the datasheet numbers.
      One of my threads has the injector data sheet posted with errors circled, email me if you have questions about the errors.
      Also look and see if the battery comp is changed with those value files.
      There may be one more thing that is changed in the tune but I forget what it was.
       
    15. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

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      Last night, while re-reading 4pointslows thread about injector sizing, I suddenly had a light bulb go on.

      The Siemens deka 60# sct injector data is scaled for a 40 psi return style fuel system. My fuel system is returnless at 65(62?) psi.
      Vroomzoomboom has also seen how even having fuel pressure off by a couple of psi really messes with tuning.

      What took me so long to clue in to the issue? No idea. My hair is blonde? Ok, its getting more grey than blonde. Seniors moment?
      I'm in luck though, I have a guy far smarter than myself holding my hand and teaching me.

      The plan is to re-scale the ford racing Lu60v2 injector data that sct provided from the 40psi fuel pressure to the 62psi pressure I have.
      I will have to experiment a bit, and try getting an accurate fuel pressure reading as returnless data all points at using 65psi, while I'm pretty sure my truck is supposed to be 62psi. will 3psi make a difference? Not sure, as I'm sure the will be no issue tuning the maf curve either way.

      I sure wish I had brought that sct dongle with me. I am out of town with some free time in the hotel tonight, and would love to be comparing value files and doing some math to make my sophisticated wild assed guesses on the injector scaling and have a tune built and ready to try tomorrow.
       
    16. CDW6212R

      CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

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      Very good, you have a good path to go at now. That should help.
       
    17. vroomzoomboom

      vroomzoomboom Elite Canuck STOCK SUCKS! Elite Explorer

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      i have a thought, not sure it would work. could turn my laptop on, and you can log into it remotely and take a look. or would you need your tune for it?
       
    18. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

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      It could work, but I'll be home tomorrow. its 11:00 in your time zone.
      Thanks for the offer Tim, I know you need to get up and moving early. that, and cut/paste thru teamviewer is a pain in the arse.

      This can wait a day, lol.
       
    19. 4pointslow

      4pointslow Explorer Torture Tester Elite Explorer

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      You should try to get a quality Snap On Fuel pressure gauge and see what pressure you really have and then use that in the formula for compensation.
      I looked up the fuel pressure spec for your truck and found a useless answer, it says 30-65
      LOL. That's bullcrap.
       
    20. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

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      Lol, so they are saying to push the Schrader valve, and if gas spurts out its all good. Lol
       
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    21. CDW6212R

      CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

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      That's a good idea to verify the accurate pressure, it will help the tune to be better.

      My 99 used to run about 60-62psi when I got it, throwing a CEL rarely. I kept checking it from knowing the lean code was often the intake o-ring gaskets. The SOHC ran great 99% of the time, then after good year I got a hiccup at high speed and the CEL again. The next time I checked the fuel pressure, it was around 58psi, in park at any rpm. I pulled the tank and found the pump rubber hose barely split at one hose clamp. The PCM was detecting the slight pressure loss, the lean condition. A few psi can make a difference, I think close to 65psi is the intended level(for the PCM programming).
       
    22. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

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      I just created a scaled 62pis injector file and a 65psi injector file.
      They are loaded in my tuner.

      I am comparing my scaling against generic 60's at 39psi and generics at the 65psi.
      The break point in my scaling looks odd. Lets see what happens.

      I'll try them tomorrow.
       
    23. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

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      Ok, coming along here.
      For some reason, when I would add the value file of the lu60v2's to my tune, the minimum pulse width would actually move over 1 decimal place. Looking back at it, thats huge. No wonder my truck would run so rich with these injectors, minimum pulse width was dumping all kinds of fuel in to the motor. 4pointslow pointed out that that value needs to stay at whatever the factory tune has. Ah, ok I say, that makes perfect sense.

      I scaled the breakpoint, high slope, and low slope using the scaling formula that is in 4pointslows injector thread. I scaled them at 62psi. Have I checked my fuel pressure? Nope. I can always re-scale again. On first check without driving, this works great.

      Current working injector scaling.
      upload_2017-8-19_14-0-37.png

      Here's what the injectors for the lu60v2's look when I import the value file in to it. Notice the deciimal place on the minimum. No wonder I couldn't tune the maf curve, lol.

      upload_2017-8-19_14-7-56.png


      Why does that value file change minimum pulse width so drastically? No idea.

      Thanks for the help 4pointslow!

      Now back to moving my maf sensor from under my truck to just before the throttle body, where it probably should be. More pics to come.
       
    24. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

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      I haven't gone for a drive yet, but initial log looks good. The maf numbers have a bit of a ripple, but I think they are pretty good.
      The honey comb might be more trick than actually straightening the , but what the heck.

      I was worried about the pcv air intake port causing turbulence just after the maf, so I ground the fitting down. Its so close to the maf, I'm not sure if the maf is actually metering the pcv air, but I did the best I could with the limited space I had.

      I'll need to re-scale the maf slightly with the injector data being corrected, and the maf moved. I'm happy with the results so far.

      dj pressure sensor and honeycomb for straightening air.jpg

      dj maf and housing with pcv port added.jpg

      dj completed maf.jpg
       
    25. 4pointslow

      4pointslow Explorer Torture Tester Elite Explorer

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      Looks good!
      Nice work!
      Make sure that honeycomb stays where you put it. You don't want that going into the throttle plate and holding it open.

      The minimum pulsewidth could be lowered below stock too if you needed to.
      The symptom that could happen if it is too low is the feel of the engine stalling during deceleration, but may not actually stall.
      I guess it is kind of used to keep the engine running on decel if that makes sense.
       
    26. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

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      yea, that honeycomb thing fits super tight. Thats also why I actually half installed it in the pipe before the maf pipe. Even if it does start to come out of the pipe its in, there's no way it will get started in the next pipe. I guess even if it did, it would get stopped by the maf. Thanks for yet another tip on that minimum pulse width. It slowly helps me understand whats going on, and why something is in the tune.
       

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