Buying a New Cat - Advice?

BuffaloXplorer · February 24, 2005

Has anyone replaced their dual cats with a Magnaflow/Carsound direct-fit unit? I've got the v6....

I think i'm going to bite the bullet and buy a high-flow cat(s) to replace my "seemingly" clogged units. The graph from my rear o2 sensor is showing that the cats are not doing their thing anymore (see here), and my mileage is horrible, and the X just doesn't seem to have any kick - it just seems like there is a clog in the system somewhere. I've got a flowmaster cat-back, and i'm KKM'd & BBK'd in front of the engine - so that leaves the Cat as a possible restrictor.

After reading some of the posts re replacing the cats, i'm at a fork in the road and need some advice:

Should i spend the money ( $50 +/- ) and have them tested first?

Should i invest $60 in ONE new high flow universal cat? (plus $50 or so to install).

Or should i invest in a Magnaflow/CarSound direct fit (#23313) - which i cannot seem to find anywhere, nor do i know the price it would go for (guessing $150 and possibly a DIY project - i'm relatively capable).

Let me know what your thoughts and/or experiences are.

Thanks - Chris

BuffaloXplorer · February 24, 2005

Well, after numerous calls to local muffler shops, i found one that can test the cats - and for FREE to boot! It's the best/most reputable shop around. UNfortunately, it's the same shop that was gonna charge me $350 to install my flowmaster si/so with 2.5" mandrel-bent piping (i cheaped out with a stock exhaust pipe for $125). Utimately, i'm looking for info on my cats, not to have the work done, so free is the right price for me!

I found one other that was going to drill -fore & aft- and set up temp sensors for $65.

Glacier991 · February 24, 2005

and here I was gonna recommend a shorthair, they shed less.

BBQ_HotDogs · February 24, 2005

Personally, I would not test them if you have to pay for it. That is what you get when you do an emissions test. If you are having problems, then buy new ones and get a new exhaust. But do not go without cats for sure. Did you by any chance price new factory cats? I sold my 2 1/2 catback exhaust to a member here and he had it installed and it sounded great. But I don't know if the larger exhaust pipes and muffler helped on his gas mileage or not. Haven't seen him or heard from him since the install. But my advice is, replace it all and go with larger exhaust also if you are running an aftermarket intake and not the factory intake. If you are running the factory intake, then stay with factory exhaust if possible.

Just my 0.02 cents worth.

BuffaloXplorer · February 25, 2005

Glacier991 said:
and here I was gonna recommend a shorthair, they shed less.

Yeah, after the fact i realized that the thread title was going to restrict my chances of getting an informed reply

I HATE :fire: cats!

BBQ_HotDogs said:
Personally, I would not test them if you have to pay for it. That is what you get when you do an emissions test. If you are having problems, then buy new ones and get a new exhaust. But do not go without cats for sure. Did you by any chance price new factory cats? I sold my 2 1/2 catback exhaust to a member here and he had it installed and it sounded great. But I don't know if the larger exhaust pipes and muffler helped on his gas mileage or not. Haven't seen him or heard from him since the install. But my advice is, replace it all and go with larger exhaust also if you are running an aftermarket intake and not the factory intake. If you are running the factory intake, then stay with factory exhaust if possible.

Just my 0.02 cents worth.

Well, as i mentioned, the cat-test is going to be free :thumbsup:

so i'm going to go with that (possibly this afternoon), just so i know if it is dead or not. We don't have full-blown emissions testing here in Upstate NY :thumbsup:

, just a CEL scan, and my inspection isn't until November anyway, so if i had to pay to find out their condition i would've just put the money towards new cat(s) anyway.

I don't need (nor can i afford) a new exhaust...overall, i'm

with my flowmaster, even with the restricted OEM piping (think the muffler was 2.25" In/Out - down to 2" piping). I know it's not optimal, but it's better than OEM. I had a custom Ravin dual-catback installed before this, but the muffler crapped out on me within 1 1/2 years and i gave up on the duals.

From what i can find online, OEM cats look like they're in the $200-250 range plus install, but if i can get away with a single universal for $50 and another $50 for install then i'm good - or a High-flow direct-fit that i could install myself for $150, i'd be happy.

Thanks for the input.

CDW6212R · February 25, 2005

I would prefer two high flowing aftermarket cats, versus the stock four cats.
I will eventually make two cat pipes, using the largest three inch cats that I can find. Magnaflow has a huge variety of sizes. I've seen different aftermarket cats. Most of the differences are in the inlet/outlet pipes. Meaning that the catalytic material is the same size.

I'll build two 2.5" cat pipes with smoother inlet/outlet pipes than the 3" cats come with.

Having them replaced for about $100 each is a fair deal, for higher flowing cats. Good luck,
DonW

Savage Wolf · February 25, 2005

far as I understand a cat cant be tested while installed (except to see if its plugged/not flowing) but thats old info so I could be wrong
as for $350 for a 2.5 install, thats what I paided for a install of my 40 delta flowmaster and highflow cat w/ 2.5 pipe ($350 includes the price of the cat and flowmaster) but that was years ago also, my new y-pipe install cost +/-$500

(just the y-pipe)

BuffaloXplorer · February 26, 2005

CDW6212R said:
I would prefer two high flowing aftermarket cats, versus the stock four cats....
....Having them replaced for about $100 each is a fair deal, for higher flowing cats. Good luck,
DonW

I've only got 2 cats - v6

From what i've read here and there, you can test the temp at the front & rear of the cats - if it's hotter in the rear than the front you're ok, as the conversion of the gasses produces a lot of heat. A poorly performing cat will not do this

(?)

j602 · February 26, 2005

I replaced both my stock cats with one high flow Magnaflow/Carsound unit. Got it off ebay for about $70 shipped. Noticeable increase in sound volume/quality and performance. The installation ran me about $100 because of the need for new piping in place of the first cat. Here is the cat you need:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...tem=7950579552&category=33629&sspagename=WD1V
Or here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7955665853&category=33629

BuffaloXplorer · February 26, 2005

sweet deal - yeah, i saw those on eBay too...didn't get a chance to have the cats tested yesterday or today, but plan to early next week.

How much louder would it be with NO cat? I'm broke, but if the cat is bad and i can't scrounge up enough cash for a new one installed, i might just have a straight pipe installed until my inspection time...

j602 · February 26, 2005

I assume it would be a good bit louder. On mine it was a about a 10% increase in sound over both cats. Husky has a sound clip of his exhaust which consists of a Super 40 and test pipe in place of cats. It's loud but sounds great.

BuffaloXplorer · February 26, 2005

don't think the wife would appreciate it if it get's any louder...but then again, if i can get another 2 mpg out of it that'll shut her up

Billy177 · February 26, 2005

i was under the impression that the graph is suposed to look like that since we don't have an airpump

BuffaloXplorer · February 28, 2005

Billy177 said:
i was under the impression that the graph is suposed to look like that since we don't have an airpump

I know nothing about what the sensors should graph, but going off the advice from Glacier & Eneurb, it should not fluctuate like that. The pre-cat sensors do just that, while the rear shouldn't (?). Not sure how an airpump (or lack thereof) changes things, but i'm just going off others' advice.

Billy177 · February 28, 2005

i am probrally wrong but I thought out engines would run a little rich then a little lean and so on. the point to the lean part is to allow oxygen to the catalytic converter for it to function correctly.

BuffaloXplorer · March 1, 2005

i agree with your input...but ultimately after the "conversion" it shouldn't be lean or rich anymore and (guessing here) when it hits the post-cat sensor there should be very little that is "sensed" by the sensor to make it fluctuate the way the pre-cat sensors do.

It's a stretch here, as i know very little about engines, but the more i talk about it, the more i (think) i understand the system (or the more i believe my own BS - not sure which).

Billy177 · March 1, 2005

my bad, I misread and thought they all were pre cat readings, which wouldent make any sense but i don't know how but that is what i originally thought.

what actual gas mileage are you getting? I would suspect with the conversion package, tv's vcr's subwoofers and warmups you would be getting around 12-13.

but it is not unheard of cats to go after 9 years of use and probrally 100k plus miles

BuffaloXplorer · March 1, 2005

153k and 10mpg (primarily city) w/winter blend fuel. I've recently been smiled upon from above and was granted 13mpg (strictly) hwy

Rarely do i reach the 200mi mark before i refuel, most times needing 17-18g for 180 miles. Right now i'm showing 130 miles @ 3/8 tank, with that last 3/8 dropping with each short trip.

I know the warmups kill me, but i've gone a tankful without preheating it and got nothing better. I've done all scheduled (& non-scheduled) maintenance to no avail. Each thing i do, i cross my fingers, hoping i'll see SOME mileage result, but it never happens.

Come hell or high-water, i'll be at the muffler shop this afternoon getting this thing tested...i'm actually DREADING hearing "...nope, it's fine". I still LOVE making repairs & dumping $$$$$ into the X, b/c each time i think i've found the culprit that'll send me to 13/16mpg...but i'm always saddened and i end up at square one...twiddling my fingers, thinking "what else could it be"

BuffaloXplorer · March 1, 2005

:fire: Well, i just got back from MufflerMan and the cat is alive and well :fire: Backpressure was fine and the temp at the front and rear of the cats was where it should be. Stupid M*&^%$ F%$#@! Explorer...

There goes the dead cat as a possible culprit for my mileage issues...

Billy177 · March 1, 2005

when was the last time you cleaned your maf?

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