Serious Explorations Ford Explorer and Ranger Message Board
#1 Resource for Ford Explorer and Ranger Owners - By Enthusiasts, for Enthusiasts.


Ford Explorer Generation Guide

EF Swag Store 2015 Ford Explorer Forums Elite Membership Chat Room My Posts Reviews Explorer Photo Gallery
Go Back   Ford Explorer and Ranger Forums "Serious Explorations" > Ford Explorer Ranger Repair - Troubleshooting - Modifications & Detailing Forums > 2002 - 2005 Explorer Mountaineer 3rd Generation > Stock 2002 - 2005 Explorers

Notices

Stock 2002 - 2005 Explorers Questions related to non-modified 2002 - 2005 Explorers and Mountaineers. Problem solving, maintenance, TSB, service bulletins, owner reviews, specifications. Sport Trac and Sport use the 1995-2001 forum.

05 exp P2104,2110,2111,2112

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-26-2008, 11:42 AM   #1
High_Order1
near Oak Ridge, TN
2005 Jack Bauer Edition
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 496

Vehicle Specs

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
(Original Poster)
05 exp P2104,2110,2111,2112

(I tried to post this in 'under the hood' somewhere so it would get more attention, but I think it went in the wrong place. As a thread hijack, is a pre or 1st gen can bus = one of the eec pcms? Which category should it have gone into?)



Ok,

So, I am driving with the windows down, and I am singing (it was a great day in tennessee and I was going home). Suddenly, I see a big yellow wrench, the warning chime, the computer says "ENGINE FAILSAFE MODE" and I have no throttle. Just Idle.

I limp it to Auto Zone (Ford wanted $75 to scan me). They give me the following codes:

P2104 - TAC forced idle FMEM mode
P2110 - TAC forced limited RPM
P2111 - TAC stuck open
P2112 - TAC stuck closed

(TAC = Throttle Actuator Control)

So, I do the pinpoint tests in the service DVD, and the throttle position sensor failed two of the four tests. I couldn't do the PID tests, though.

Nobody around here had a new one. No dealership in the region had one. It had to come from atlanta.

So, I yank the throttle body, pull the old TPS off, pop the new one on. Seems fine round town driving.

Next day, it does the same crap on the Interstate. Three times, once in the morning and twice in the hot evening.

I go back to AZ and its' the same set of codes.

SO, now what do I do? Help?


-Shawn
High_Order1 is offline   Reply With Quote
( Join the Elite Explorers )

For only $20 per year you can become an Elite Explorer member. Explorer Forum has probably saved you that much already, and will continue to save you money as you learn how to diagnose and fix problems yourself, and learn which modifications really work without having to experiment on your own. Elite Explorer members can change the forum "styles" to eliminate most ads, including blue underlined links, and no ads on photos. Other benefits include the ability to store 1000 Private Messages, upload photo attachments directly to your posts and to our Photo Gallery and more. Join the Elite Explorers today.


Old 04-26-2008, 12:48 PM   #2
Donner
Natomas/Irvine
01 Sp 03 XLT 4x4s, Scion
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 6,823

Vehicle Specs

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Hi there... What type of vehicle (05 Exp 4dr, ST, 4x4, AWD) are we talking about? What year, engine, etc... thanks!




__________________
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/...d.php?t=240001 For Sale stuff
Donner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2008, 07:38 PM   #3
High_Order1
near Oak Ridge, TN
2005 Jack Bauer Edition
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 496

Vehicle Specs

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
(Original Poster)
Hey -

thanks for responding!

This one is a 2005 explorer 4dr 4wd with the vin code K (flex fuel) 6 cylinder engine. around 80k on the clock.


-Shawn
High_Order1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2008, 07:48 PM   #4
JohnJ
Brick, NJ
'92 Puttied
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 170

Vehicle Specs

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I haven't gotten one of these yet, but just feel like adding my two cents. On Ford trucks with electronically controlled throttle body (not cable operated) I have found that these units fail quite a bit. Luckily, the local Ford dealers keep a supply of reman throttle bodies in stock for sale at about $60 or so with core if memory serves. They're somehow cheaper than a cable operated TB or a MAF. This was a surprise to me. Also, before condemning a throttle body, be sure you haven't got a spread wiring terminal or a wire break right at the terminal. This is also fairly common.
JohnJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2008, 08:09 PM   #5
High_Order1
near Oak Ridge, TN
2005 Jack Bauer Edition
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 496

Vehicle Specs

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
(Original Poster)
NO kidding.

I wished I had known that before I shelled out 75 for the tps alone..... I will check the wiring, too. Is this at the PCM end, the TB end, or both?


-Shawn
High_Order1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2008, 08:46 PM   #6
JohnJ
Brick, NJ
'92 Puttied
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 170

Vehicle Specs

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
At the TB end.
JohnJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2008, 11:44 AM   #7
High_Order1
near Oak Ridge, TN
2005 Jack Bauer Edition
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 496

Vehicle Specs

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
(Original Poster)
hm -


well, the harness appears to be ok. Anybody got anything else?? Its' parked until I can figure this out because I am afraid of wrecking it.



-Shawn
High_Order1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2008, 04:04 PM   #8
REDBOAT
Houston Texas
2005 XLS
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 20

Vehicle Specs

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Shawn, I had similar issues and all the same codes and was frustruated and took it to the dealer to fix. The reflashed the PCM and put in a new throttle body. I was also told the Engine Failsafe Mode was V8 specific but some of the early 05 V6 models had that in their programming.
REDBOAT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2008, 07:59 PM   #9
High_Order1
near Oak Ridge, TN
2005 Jack Bauer Edition
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 496

Vehicle Specs

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
(Original Poster)
Thanks, boat.

Its' looking like it will be one of the two. I did ask a couple of the local dealerships about the reman, one actually laughed at me. 175 new from them. There is a place in minnesota that has some wrecked pulls, but they want $75 plus fairly hefty shipping for what it is.

Doesn't sound like I am escaping this cheaply, huh?


-Shawn
High_Order1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2008, 02:54 PM   #10
High_Order1
near Oak Ridge, TN
2005 Jack Bauer Edition
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 496

Vehicle Specs

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
(Original Poster)
Thumbs down I am about to be sick to my stomach.

Well,

just got in from the dealership.


They say that I have a failing PCM, and they want around a grand to replace it.

They wouldn't even look at the paint problem until I made them, and they didn't write it on the bill.

They said, quote, "We ain't never seen chippin' like that before. It musta had some body work done to it. We can't see no tape lines or anything, but that must be what that is."

I suggest the TSB's about iron contamination, and they stare at me.

The best part is they charged me almost 90 dollars to tell me that. Which included a 7.50 environmental fee.

But I got a free paper floor mat and hang tag out of it, so who screwed who, huh?? lol


Questions at this point:

Can a PCM intermittently fail? And in only one area? I always thought they either worked, or they didn't.

Can I buy a junker and make it work?

Isn't there some vehicle-specific data in there that would have to be overwritten?

Can it be done without crawling back to the dealership?


Oh - and I found a gallon of water in the passenger side rear floorboards today. I park on a hill, and when I rolled backwards to a flat spot, I heard a literal 'slosh' sound, like I had water in a big cooler or something.


I'll be honest with you guys. At this point, I am not really very impressed with this car. It looks great, but it sorta is looking like a grease rack queen.


Can *anyone* offer some help, here?


Thanks,

-Shawn
High_Order1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2008, 10:08 AM   #11
High_Order1
near Oak Ridge, TN
2005 Jack Bauer Edition
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 496

Vehicle Specs

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
(Original Poster)
bump - help?
High_Order1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2008, 11:28 AM   #12
rrgone
Tucson, AZ
'02 XLT
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 705

Vehicle Specs

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Sorry Shawn. I gotta think you're gonna have to get this installed by the dealer. Any other module I would be willing to give it a shot with a used one, but not the PCM. Maybe if you were sure it came from the same model, same engine, made at about the same time in the same plant as yours it would be worth a try... That's just my .02. Good luck man.
rrgone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2008, 06:24 PM   #13
High_Order1
near Oak Ridge, TN
2005 Jack Bauer Edition
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 496

Vehicle Specs

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
(Original Poster)
so.............

noone has any idea how to fix this? I really, really could use some help right now.



-Shawn
High_Order1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2008, 12:34 PM   #14
High_Order1
near Oak Ridge, TN
2005 Jack Bauer Edition
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 496

Vehicle Specs

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
(Original Poster)
Well -

If anyone is keeping track: I could fix this myself, if I had the proper scantool. I don't. I found a couple of places on the net purporting to sell replacement ones, but with the caveat that the PASS and vehicle - specific data has to be punched in by a dealer or someone with that 2 grand tool.

The dealer says it will cost $89 an hour (2 hr's at least), and if the box doesn't have the correct calibration in it it will not work. Period.

I did find out what the part number for the PCM is (a dealership guy took pity on me and looked it up in their database), and I did find the teartag. It is nowhere near the PCM. It is on the door sticker in the lower right corner.

So, that's where that is. It still hasn't moved, and now I am fighting the mice to keep them from building a nest in my 3 year old SUV. *sigh*


-Shawn
High_Order1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2008, 01:26 PM   #15
High_Order1
near Oak Ridge, TN
2005 Jack Bauer Edition
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 496

Vehicle Specs

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
(Original Poster)
two months later -

still broken. I have found a couple of places that will sell me the part, one says he can program it. I finally found the tear tag. It is *totally* hidden by the bracket. It is on the thin rear edge opposite the jacks.

Once I get one that's programmed, I can swap it myself in the parking lot of the locksmith shop, who says they will be able to put my pats data back into it for 30 bucks, making this approximately a 500 dollar problem instead of a 1400 dollar one.

-Shawn
High_Order1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2008, 01:58 PM   #16
REDBOAT
Houston Texas
2005 XLS
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 20

Vehicle Specs

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Wow what a PITA this is turning out to be for you!!! Sure do hope it is the PCM and not some other goofy problem. Please post back once you get it fixed and let us know if the PCM fixed the problem.
REDBOAT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2008, 08:59 AM   #17
rrgone
Tucson, AZ
'02 XLT
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 705

Vehicle Specs

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by High_Order1 View Post
two months later -

still broken. I have found a couple of places that will sell me the part, one says he can program it. I finally found the tear tag. It is *totally* hidden by the bracket. It is on the thin rear edge opposite the jacks.

Once I get one that's programmed, I can swap it myself in the parking lot of the locksmith shop, who says they will be able to put my pats data back into it for 30 bucks, making this approximately a 500 dollar problem instead of a 1400 dollar one.

-Shawn
Shawn, How about an update on this issue?
rrgone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2008, 10:17 AM   #18
High_Order1
near Oak Ridge, TN
2005 Jack Bauer Edition
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 496

Vehicle Specs

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
(Original Poster)
k

Sure...

lessee, I got the pcm in. So I took the old one apart (I have pix somewhere). Couldn't observe anything smoked, and it all was covered in that don't-fix-me-glue so no bench testing.

Limped the vehicle down to the locksmith, took about 5 minutes to swap pcms, the little girl came out with the programmer, and 20 minutes (thanks, anti theft feature in the programmer) that was done. Two more minutes to self program the remaining keys and keyfobs, and drove away.

Never had another pcm related problem since and IIRC, only was out around 350.00.


I did amass quite a bit of pcm data, and had intentions of sharing, but no one really seemed interested, so I just filed it all away.


Main lessons learned =

First - don't trust a simple scan tool. I have determined they are shills for the big box part stores. Sure, you need this part, now you need that part. Kinda like an amputee thinking his (missing) leg hurts, if the pcm is going out, it will tell you all sorts of crazy stuff, and a basic reader won't tell you any different.

It took me a scan tool that let me observe data in real time, and a volt meter to decide that the sensors weren't at fault AFTER buying a couple of them.

Second, don't trust a dealership or mechanic shop. Both told me that I could not NOT repeat NOT solve a pcm problem all by my lonesome, but they could for many many dollars. Not true by a long shot.

Third - that flash scare is a big bunch of hooey. The PCM has to be the physically correct one, but someone with the proper passthrough tool can put whatever they need to in there, including a lot of stuff I didn't think could get altered. Whether they admit to it or not is another thing entirely.

What that means in Shawntalk is that you can potentially scrounge a junkyard looking for a donor pcm, but you will need someone with the passthrough and a motorcraft account. It (for me) was easier to use an online service. I sent them the tear tag data, and my debit card number, and a replacement with warranty arrived on my doorstep.

Lastly, if you are having pcm problems, don't keep driving it. There is a LOT of stuff that is controlled by it. Don't have it go WOT and request reverse at the same time (prolly not possible, but I can't say positively.)

I am sure there were other things, but they are lost to the fog of time.

Now, I am on the oh-crap-now-the-tranny-is-going problem....

Thanks for asking!

-Shawn
High_Order1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2008, 12:09 PM   #19
rrgone
Tucson, AZ
'02 XLT
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 705

Vehicle Specs

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Thank you for the update. It's pretty amazing what a person can do with the internet for research and a good dose of stubborness!

Which online seller did you go to for the replacement PCM? And it was just plug and play except for reprogramming the PATS and making keys?

Glad that it worked out for you.
rrgone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2008, 12:15 PM   #20
DenverExp
Denver, CO
2002 EB Explorer 4.6 V8
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 8

Vehicle Specs

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Very interesting information...thanks for documenting your solution here for us.

Jason
DenverExp is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Suggest this thread to friends:



Join the "Elite Explorers" Today!



Search Explorer Forum


Top of Page

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:40 PM.



US Flag
We Support Our Troops!

Explore the site!


Copyright 2014 - 1996 Rick Horwitz Photography



Ford Motor Company is not involved in the management of this site in any way.



All tips on this site are for use at your own risk and discretion.

Modifying the suspension on any vehicle will cause changes to its handling characteristics.



Vendor Tools vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.