Problem With Towing

Problem With Towing - updated Photo

Explorer is in dealer and they can't tell me exactly what is wrong. I need to get this problem fixed and maybe some one here can help.

96 XLT V8 D4 4R70W, 135K miles. I have been towing an RV (5400lbs) for about 15 years with no problems. Recently, after a 90 mile trip towing everything went wrong. When stopped at a traffic light exiting the highway, the truck wanted to stall. After the light changed, there was an extreme loss of power for another 15 miles while traveling to the campground going 45mph. Arriving at the campground, the idle smoothed out and after unhitching and going into town, the power was back and all was fine. On the trip back home days later, the same thing happened again after coming to a stop to exit the highway.

Dealer says EGR set codes but tech does not think that would cause the problem I am having. They want $600 to replace EGR and solenoid but are not certain that will fix the situation and are not really advising to do it since it may not fix it.

Plugs and wires were changed at 70K and new fuel filter and trans flush before the trip. They say fuel pressure is OK and O2 sensors OK.

Any one help me here?

Jay

I would like to know the exact codes-could be as simple as blown out egr hoses or a dpfe, I also wonder if the catalytic converters are clogging.

Another suspect for consideration is the fuel pump and fuel filter. Towing that much weight has to be straining the fuel system. (pun)

If they say they EGR needs replacing, can it be just cleaned? If the cats are bad, would it smell?

Bet the cats are starting to fail. They show their ugly heads when they're hot, like after a cruise down the highway for a while. Then you have a complete loss of power. The EGR code doesn't surprise me. If the exhaust system is backing up, the EGR will flow way to much exhaust gas into the intake and cause a rough running engine and most likely set a code.

Get the cats tested at a muffler shop. Cost me $20, they even let me watch. I have a feeling it's the egr, that will make it run rough and if it's sticking then that would explain the randomness. $600 is STEEP, unless it's rusted bad it ain't a hard job

Before checking the cats though, pull off the DPFE hoses and make sure they are not blown out, as they will bleed off pressure during the cat test if they are leaking.

Got a call back from dealer. They found that the EGR would not hold a vacuum very long. They have to get one from JAX tomorrow. I have read that the EGR on the 5.0L is not easy to get out. I found in my records that it was changed in 2001 at 66k miles. Was $500 back then. I told them I want the part they take out. I will report back what codes were set.


Looks to be no DPFE on this model.

I believe the dpfe is part of the egr, but you def have one. I'd ask a small shop, I wouldn't even pay $100 for it

I believe that the 96 does not use a DPFE, but a position sensor, mounted on top of the EGR. A quick look at the dealer's list price shows the EGR valve (without the sensor) at about $230, though it's available for about half that much from other sources. In any case, I would not spend $500 or $600 to replace it, not matter what - and we aren't even sure it's defective. In fact, 'not holding vacuum' is rare for these devices. If anything, they accummulate a bit of carbon deposits on the seat, which prevents them from opening fully or closing completely. And, in my humble opinion, it's extremely unlikely that any of these EGR problems would cause the severe loss of power.

If I were you, I would buy a vacuum pump (probably about $50 - and it's good for a lot of other uses) and verify that the EGR indeed doesn't hold vacuum before plopping that kind of money. But above all, it seems to me that the dealer is barking up the wrong tree, and the problem is entirely elsewhere.

colintrax said:

I believe the dpfe is part of the egr, but you def have one. I'd ask a small shop, I wouldn't even pay $100 for it

Click to expand...

I agree, if the EGR isn't holding vacuum that means it's not opening correctly. That absolutely would NOT impact engine power in any way. You really wouldn't feel that at all, except for a decrease in MPG.

Got the truck back just now. They replaced three parts.

F63Z-9J459-AA $60.53
F6PZ-9H473-AA $186.39
9G428-ADV $45.06

Codes were set: P0401, P0408,P1408

Total 526 including labor.
Gave me owner advantage reward 13.55

Car is idling like new again. Before there was a miss every once and a while.

We'll see what happens during spring break when we go out again.

One more question: if this acts up again in the future, can it be removed and blocked off with a plate?

All three codes point to some EGR misbehavior. The replaced parts are the EGR valve, the position sensor (no DPFE for this year), and the solenoid vacuum regulator - essentially the entire EGR system, except for the connecting tube. The fact that it idles better shows that the valve wasn't closing when it should have. Let us know if you see any irmprovement in engine power under load.

As for your question, I would not block the EGR system if it malfunctions again. In addition to being illegal (in most jurisdictions), your engine is tuned to to take advantage of the cooler combustion that EGR flow provides. If you block it, you are likely to experience pinging and/or some other misbehavior.

jay1028 said:

Got the truck back just now. They replaced three parts.

F63Z-9J459-AA $60.53
F6PZ-9H473-AA $186.39
9G428-ADV $45.06

Codes were set: P0401, P0408,P1408

Total 526 including labor.
Gave me owner advantage reward 13.55

Car is idling like new again. Before there was a miss every once and a while.

We'll see what happens during spring break when we go out again.

One more question: if this acts up again in the future, can it be removed and blocked off with a plate?

Click to expand...

Photo---update

Got the old part back from dealer. Applied vacuum to EGR and attached ohmmeter to position sensor. No vacuum reads 3.5k. With vacuum 2.3k and slowly rose to 3.5k after about 20 seconds. After more investigation, found the break in the diaphragm. Think they just replaced the entire EGR system when only the EGR valve was necessary. The solenoid checked ok when applied 12v to it and a vacuum.

I was thinking that since the hole is there, the EGR valve would only try to open for a very short time and then the vacuum would bleed off. With the valve closed, I don't see how this affected my idle or my towing problem. If it was stuck open, then I can see how it would affect things, but my idle has totally smoothed out for some reason.

My suspicion would be that in trying to diagnos the issue they probably pulled and cleaned off a number of different connectors, possibly also the spark plugs and wires, and then reset the computer after replacing the EGR. Not to jinx anything, but wait a while and hopefully the issue does not resurface.