2001 XLT D44-SAS

azexplorer4by · August 9, 2004

The tubing is know As DOM (drawn over madrel) tubing. It comes in a # of sizes and wall thicknesses I am sure you'll find one that will work. I got some 1" .156 wall from shaperio steel in the midwest to make my steering and track bar using 3/4" heims. So if all else fails they are very reasonable. I got a 20' stick shipped from KC to northern AZ for under $100. But I'm not sure if they have any pieces they'll sell you or if they sell full sticks only. Most places DOM runs $6-$7 a foot. Anyways thats my 2 cents worth. BTW.... the truck looks like its comming along very nicely. Great Job!!

cdsl227 · August 9, 2004

I've tried to get DOM here, but they (in the steel shops) look at me like I'm stupid...they're like what's that?

jasonb · August 9, 2004

if you don't need much, go to some welding shops and ask them for some. i get almost all my steel that way. get their leftovers and you get it for really cheap usually.

when you call places up, call it seamless.

james t · August 9, 2004

cdsl227 said:
I've tried to get DOM here, but they (in the steel shops) look at me like I'm stupid...they're like what's that?

Most people around here get it from the 2 race car fabricators in this area. Both are full on chassis builders (dirt track), and are the only people who keep the stuff in stock. The "big steel place" had no idea what the stuff was.

cdsl227 · August 9, 2004

jasonb said:
if you don't need much, go to some welding shops and ask them for some. i get almost all my steel that way. get their leftovers and you get it for really cheap usually.

when you call places up, call it seamless.

Ididn't even think of a welding shop...I just went to the big steel places here.

Thanks!

I got the same thing from the steel shops here- what's that?

I got some stuff done today.

I used this to cradle the frame- 6" long x 2 1/2" wide x 4" tall x 1/4" plate. I have 2 more the use.

Here they are welded in place.

Here are the Buggy Spring brackets. I have to put on the finishing touches in terms on smoothing them out and cleaning them up a little. I'm thinking of using hitch pins through the cradle to pin them for on-road use.

They're about 15" long x 2 3/4" wide x 3" tall, backed by 15" long x 4" wide x 3/8" plate. 9/16" grade 8 bolts.

This is how she sits when the springs are dead on the frame rails.

Here's the Buggy Spring in place (well close), I have to measure the sides and then weld it in place and put in supports here and there.

I have to build up a support plate for the front where the bolts are. I'm going to get longer bolts tomorrow, the ones I have are a little short. I'm going to box in the top of the bolts so I don't need a wrench up there if I have to do anything.

That's pretty much it, I'm going to try and get some done tomorrow before I go to work.

jasonb · August 10, 2004

you gonna take the body lift out?

cdsl227 · August 10, 2004

jasonb said:
you gonna take the body lift out?

Not right away, I'm going to see how it is first with the BL.

azexplorer4by · August 10, 2004

Hate to mention this but I figure I'd better till its all welded up. That is a great setup but you will want the shackle atleast straight up and down. The Buggy spring will give you a ton of droop, but on the compression stroke of the spring the shackle needs to move. The way you have the shackle is right now gives no movement on compresion and will bind from the get go. A shackle straight up and down is a minimum the best setup is when the shackle is at -10 to -15 degrees from vertical. go check the degree of angle on most any stock leaf spring setup! When it comes to the best shackle placement is all just a trig function, and how you are right now the math won't add up. I would hate for you to get that all together and then hit a big bump and break something in the front end then wreck. Other than that its lookin good!!

cdsl227 · August 10, 2004

azexplorer4by said:
Hate to mention this but I figure I'd better till its all welded up. That is a great setup but you will want the shackle atleast straight up and down. The Buggy spring will give you a ton of droop, but on the compression stroke of the spring the shackle needs to move. The way you have the shackle is right now gives no movement on compresion and will bind from the get go. A shackle straight up and down is a minimum the best setup is when the shackle is at -10 to -15 degrees from vertical. go check the degree of angle on most any stock leaf spring setup! When it comes to the best shackle placement is all just a trig function, and how you are right now the math won't add up. I would hate for you to get that all together and then hit a big bump and break something in the front end then wreck. Other than that its lookin good!!

Thanks for the heads up, but the weight of the truck isn't on them yet, I just got itchy and hung it there with a C-clamp.

The yellow lines on the brace welded to the frame are where the spring eye lines up with the weight of the truck, so I'm figuring that'll give me almost vertical shackle angle. I'm going to go vertical (actually just a hair this way \)because I still have to get the bumper up there and then the springs will settle a little, if you look when it's got the weight on it the springs still have quite a bit of bow to them...

But I am taking any and all advice!

azexplorer4by · August 10, 2004

Believe it or not you actually want to go a little this way (/) on the picture you have there. If you go the other way you will bind as the spring compresses, you might not notice it unless you hit a bump fast and spring tries to compress. You would probally only get a big "pop" as the spring un-binds but over time it will weaken and could break. With the shackle this way (\) the shackle has to move in 2 different archs as the spring compresses and as it changes arches it has to relieve its stored energy. With it having to do this, it is almost certain it will bind as it tries to transition between the 2 different archs. Like I said before I'm not trying to hammer on your setup cause I think it will be a great ride, I just want it to be safe, and work like a dream for ya.

Nick26 · August 10, 2004

azexplorer4by said:
Believe it or not you actually want to go a little this way (/) on the picture you have there. If you go the other way you will bind as the spring compresses, you might not notice it unless you hit a bump fast and spring tries to compress. You would probally only get a big "pop" as the spring un-binds but over time it will weaken and could break. With the shackle this way (\) the shackle has to move in 2 different archs as the spring compresses and as it changes arches it has to relieve its stored energy. With it having to do this, it is almost certain it will bind as it tries to transition between the 2 different archs. Like I said before I'm not trying to hammer on your setup cause I think it will be a great ride, I just want it to be safe, and work like a dream for ya.

I think he is right, besides the closer that buggy spring eye is to the center of the spring the more it will be able to droop down because if you look at it like a triangle when you shorten the opposite side the opposite angle can get narrower.

also I thought when vehicles had leaf springs up front they always put the shackles in front and not in back to avoid problems with weight shift when braking hard, heres a YJ:

azexplorer4by · August 10, 2004

No shackles can go in the rear of the front axle of a vehicle, look at an old chevy 4x4 p/u or blazer. In fact they make shackle reverse kits for most toys and jeeps, putting the shackle in the rear. The shackle type setup in the back is more efficient as it transverses forward because the 2 forces aren't working in opposite directions. Its not that the shackle in the front doesn't work, but the ride is very rough cause the 2 forces are fighting each other instead of working together.

cdsl227 · August 10, 2004

azexplorer4by said:
Believe it or not you actually want to go a little this way (/) on the picture you have there. If you go the other way you will bind as the spring compresses, you might not notice it unless you hit a bump fast and spring tries to compress. You would probally only get a big "pop" as the spring un-binds but over time it will weaken and could break. With the shackle this way (\) the shackle has to move in 2 different archs as the spring compresses and as it changes arches it has to relieve its stored energy. With it having to do this, it is almost certain it will bind as it tries to transition between the 2 different archs. Like I said before I'm not trying to hammer on your setup cause I think it will be a great ride, I just want it to be safe, and work like a dream for ya.

I tack welded it in place today and I see exactly what you're talking about- so tomorrow I'm going to break the tacks and reposition the buggy leaf. I'm going to drop the bumper on it before I put the final welds in place and brace it all.

That bumper weighs about 250lbs. and that's going to push them back further so I'll tack it in place take another X measurement fromt he rear spring mounts to make sure I'm still square and then throw the bumper up there for final fitment.

Then weld the hell out of it all.

Thanks for the info!

james t · August 10, 2004

Ideally, you want the shackle at about 35-40 degree angle, basically like azexplo said. Running them straight will make it ride rough, not flex very well and will eventually bend a leaf.

cdsl227 · August 10, 2004

james t said:
Ideally, you want the shackle at about 35-40 degree angle, basically like azexplo said. Running them straight will make it ride rough, not flex very well and will eventually bend a leaf.

I was trying to keep them at an angle where I wouldn't have to risk them snapping back. I know I could use bump stops to fix that if were to happen, but I was trying not to.

I'm just looking at the amount of arch they have even with the weight of the truck down on them...I'm going to mount the bumper so I have all the weight up front that's going to be there.

I tacked one them in today and I already know I'm going to be cutting the tacks to reposition.

cdsl227 · August 11, 2004

I got the Buggy leafs welded in, they're just tacked in a few places. I'm going to finish off the welds with a LincolnArc 220 welder tomorrow.

This thing is a lot higher than I expected up front and I'm going to have to either put blocks in the rear which I didn't want to do, extended shackles which I didn't want to do either or have the spring shop beef up the rear packs, although I'm nnot sure what they could do since they already have an added full-length leaf and were re-arched when I did the torsion twist.

I still have to add in some support brackets and all, but I wanted to get some of the welding done first then add in brackets.

I think the shackle angle is fine and will increase maybe a hair with the bumper on.

Shackle angle is at just 15 degrees, but then the front as you can see is quite a bit higher than the rear, so when it levels it'll probably be about 25 or so.
Next is shocks and steering.

Nick26 · August 11, 2004

it looks like there are an awful lot of leaves in those front springs, maybe you could take out an overload spring or 2? Also I am probably stating the obvious but I just thought i'd point out that the more angle on the shackle the lower it will be.

cdsl227 · August 11, 2004

They're 7 leaf packs...that's pretty much what everyone is running. I've got the V8 so I need those extra leafs.

I'm pretty sure they're 4" RE Lift springs for the YJ with 2 extra leafs.

I don't think putting more angle in the shackles will do that much for me and if I angle them over more I might run into other problems.

My options are a little limited so I'm figuring the pick the azz up a little. I can live with the front being an inch or so higher than the rear, I kinda like that look, but not the amount it's sitting with now.

azexplorer4by · August 12, 2004

I kind of agree with nick, If I was you I'd see what happens by removing the 2 lower leafs. looking at your pack you have 2 leaf that aren't held in by the clamps, if so they are floating "over loads" as nick said. Right now you look super high, like 11-12" tall or more in front. Some of that is because of how you designed the front mount for the front springs, and your "buggy spring set up in back also helped in this. Since you are so tall removing those 2 floating springs might fix you up nicely, as long as you run a good shock. The removal of the leafs setup I doubt would give you an i'll effect, except give you more articulation..Wahooooooooo, You want that don't you? Anyways since your so tall the weight issue I don't think is any longer an issue. It might just be me, but that is just my opinion!!

The setup looks great now, but damn dude that is HUGE in front!!! Seems toooo tall to me!!! But then again each to their own!!!

Vozar · August 12, 2004

Looking Good. I had a similar problem with the front being a little higher. I put the Warrior shackles back on and i did a 1 inch block and it leveled it out. I wouldnt get any higher than taht though, might be too unstable. Good luck,

Matt

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