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Auto Hub Washer Fix With Pictures

Alright read almost every one's post. My hubs are just fried. Mine are just making a grindin noise constant. Sorry just the driver side is. I am puttin new ones on Warn manueal ones. What I am wonderin is in the next two weeks when I have the cash for my new ones I am wonderin can I disasseble my auto ones so I don't have to deal with horrible noise. Please help. I hate havin to turn my stereo up in my X
 



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Stumpy, pull your front wheels and hubs off, then remove the cam assy. with the spring around it from the vehicle. This will disable the hub and stop the noise. You know, my driver's side hub was grinding and clunking and since I did the washer fix and replaced the bearings inside the hubs I haven't had a problem since.

Manual hubs are stronger if you are off-roading, but I like the auto hubs for my purposes.
 






Thanks dude. I fixed them today. I bow in shame but my lug nuts were loose. As for offroading. Yes I do go out alot.
 






Cool, that was a cheap fix. they are few and far between...
 






Yeah I know that. Oh well after the summer I am going full widths. 9" out back and d44 in the front with 36's
 






Auto Hub Washer Fix

I have a '94 EB and have determind that my auto hubs are not engaging properly. I'm going to try the washer fix before I look into getting new autos or switching to manuals. Before I try the fix I just wanted to make sure that it was for the hubs I have because in the original post Bob says he performed the fix on his '97 Ranger.
 






My four wheel just went out (again) yesterday driving up the local canyon to ski. I HAD TO TURN BACK AND MISS A GREAT POWDER DAY!!!!!! Anyway the clicking noise is the new problem. Didn't engage or disengage properly, it was humiliating. I read a post about cleaning all the grease--and there was a lot--out inside the hub, but it didn't fix the problem. Tomorrow I will try the washer idea after some good powder riding--assuming they do a good job plowing the road. However I read the posts on the other sites that bob k gave about it being a leaf spring. How can I just replace this? I would rather replace the bad parts than go for a loop-hole, makeshift type fix. Although so far I have only used altered items to fix my sweet ride e.g. that stop bumper, and other minor interior failures. But if it works it works.
Also...I love this site. I have been a member for awhile now but never had to post anything. This place has all the answers if you just look. Not this though. Well probably. I would look harder but I wanna post something and get some rest so I can get up early and take some laps on the hill. Thanks. -anthony
 






Wooooohoooo It Worked!

Today I did the fix. Got a neighbor to turn down 2 gigantic washers on his lathe and mic them just under 1/8 inch and voila! 4 wheel works great forward and reverse.. still a slight clunk every now and then from the drivers side but other than that I cant complain for the price of the fix! Reverse never worked at all and it clunked and grinded a hell of a lot more before the washers. Now I can wait a little bit before I have to go drop 5 bills on manuals! Thanx for the info!
 






JohnnyRock--The concept is the same for your '94 Explorer though the parts and measurements may be a bit different.

Anmag--I'm not aware of any aftermarket source for the leaf springs (since they appear to be the actual cause of the problem). I wonder if you could bend the leaf springs back to their proper dimensions? I have a spare set of auto hubs that I may try that on.
 






I know this thread is a bit old but non-the-less it's great info !

Question :

Do you think doubling up on at least one of the leaf springs is okay?

I never looked too close at them but I think they are very simple... Spring steel with a bow to it. So, what would it hurt to add another used spring with the original?


For now, I'm going to do the "Beertime9 Washer Fix". :)
 






Er, I am thinking that that is one continous spring. IIRC I tried to bend mine to add some extra "spring" but had to squash it back down to get the hub together again and it didn't really have any effect. Had to use my drillpress as a press to get the thing back together. A bit of a PITA but I still am running my auto hubs, no problems. (I have a new set of manuals for when I have issues again)
 






Bob, I realize the pics are gone.. is there a way you can repost them?
 






Just out of curiosity, my '94 has factory Warn manual locking hubs. Although I like them just fine, I wonder if there is a way convert them to auto locking hubs. I can get a set of good auto hubs on fleaby for about $100 bucks. Could the be retrofitted without a great deal of modification?
 












I am well aware that this thread is many years old, but I came across this thread yesterday, and today set out to find washers locally instead of going to a diesel repair shop, and I did.
I just wanted to share my findings with this forum to make it a little easier to complete this project.

This DIY saved me $200, all for $5.39 in washers at Lowes.
They were in the specialty washers drawer, its purple colored.
P/N: 883573
Below is the image of the washer I bought.
I bought 4 of these and used 2 for each one.
The outside had to be ground down which didn't take long, I stacked all 4 in a vice and ground them all down together.
The inside fits perfectly.
4wd works excellent now.


mj26fCr.jpg

H2prh3D.jpg
 






Good to know, csibbs. My fix is nearly 10 years old and still works perfectly.
 






Er, I am thinking that that is one continous spring. IIRC I tried to bend mine to add some extra "spring" but had to squash it back down to get the hub together again and it didn't really have any effect. Had to use my drillpress as a press to get the thing back together. A bit of a PITA but I still am running my auto hubs, no problems. (I have a new set of manuals for when I have issues again)
Are you saying you tried to make the repair by bending the springs but it didn't work, so you resorted to using the washer fix instead?

I've got a second set of hubs and am trying to decide if I should fuss with the springs. My original washer fix is now 14 years old and is still working well, including lots of aggressive 4x4 in the Rockies.
 






Note: I lost my picture server for the following pictures. Original pictures and write ups are available on my Windows Live SkyDrive Here.

See original discussion at: Auto Hubs working again, cross my fingers. I probably won't have my picture server after 2006, so I recommend you save the pictures now or perhaps a moderator can put this in the tech section and host the pictures on the main server. (Edit: Pictures are rehosted below.)

I took some pictures while performing the "Beertime9 Washer Fix" on the automatic hubs of my '97 Ranger.

Many folks have noticed problems with their auto hubs, but upon disassembly they can find nothing blatantly wrong with the hubs. Symptoms include a popping or loud pinging sound while 4x4 is engaged or a grinding sound when you attempt to engage 4x4. The sounds are an indication that the hub will not engage or stay fully engaged.

Don discovered that the pot metal cam on the spline gear and the plastic ring inside the hub that the pot metal cam rubs against can wear over time. As they wear down, the cam can no longer push the internal hub mechanism in far enough to engage the hub gears. Wear seems to be only about 1/32" to 1/16", but it's enough to prevent the internal hub splines from engaging, which are only about 3/8" wide to begin with. Ford will tell you that there are no serviceable parts inside the hub. However, adding a washer between the pot metal cam and the plastic ring seems to replace the worn material and allow the auto hub to engage properly.

95-99_Ranger_Auto_Hub1.jpg


95-99_Ranger_Auto_Hub2.jpg

Here are a couple schematics of the auto hub, although they don't show the guts of the hub. Notice the "cam assembly". That is not the cam I address below.

Snap_Ring.jpg

When the hub is off, look at the aluminum cam (with the three fingers on it). Measure how much space there is between the top of the cam and the top of the spline gear (blue circle). It's about 1/16" in this picture. Your objective is to add a thick enough washer to bring the cam just about flush with the top of the spline gear. Obviously, you don't want it tight. Give it a little wiggle room so that it won't be under pressure when you reinstall the hub. (The picture below shows this same space circled in blue so that you can more easily see what I'm talking about. Of course, you can only take this measurement while the cam and spline gear are installed.) Start by removing the snap ring. You'll see it at the bottom. It's the only thing holding the spline gear and pot metal cam in. Once you have the snap ring off, turn the hub over and thump it on a wooden or padded surface. The only thing holding the spline gear in now is friction with the center post and crud, so sooner or later, it'll fall out.

Spline_With_Cam2.jpg

This is the internal spline with the cam on top. The screwdriver is pointing to little nubs on the tops of the splines. The nubs prevent the cam from coming off the top. It has to slide off the bottom. The blue circle is to exaggerate the gap you'll be measuring while the cam and spline gear are installed.

Plastic_Ring_Wear2.jpg

If you look down inside the hub with the spline gear removed, you'll see the plastic ring. It is held in place by a round metal snap ring (red circle). This is as far as you can disassemble the hub without a press. To disassemble it further, you have to compress the plastic ring (and subsequently the huge spring at the bottom of the hub) far enough to get the round metal snap ring out. The screwdriver is pointing to the wear on the plastic ring. Can you say "planned obsolescence"??!!. What numbskull at Ford decided to use plastic instead of metal? The blue circle indicates the two sets of teeth that engage the outer teeth on the spline gear. When these two sets of teeth mesh, you're in 4x4. See below for a deeper explanation.

Cam1.jpg

On the bottom surface of the cam, you can see the rounded spot that wore into the plastic ring (blue circle). Although I asked some questions in the original thread about whether or not the little teeth sticking up (red circle) were the result of wear, I'm now convinced that the cam was manufactured this way. I can see no way that a plastic ring wore away 1/4" of metal on the cam.

E-2411A_Washer.jpg

This is the Euclid E-2411A air brake cam bushing that I purchased from a local diesel repair shop for 26 cents. The outer diameter was still a little too wide, so I had to grind it down. It should be no wider than the width of the cam. Preferrably, it should be a smidge smaller so that it doesn't catch on the round metal snap ring. On the left is the original size and on the right is the washer after it was ground down. This washer is about 1/16" thick. I put two of these on each cam. A thickness of 1/8" is what I needed to just about make the top of the cam flush with the top of the spline gear but still allow for some wiggle room (maybe 1/32"). That may be too much or not enough for your situation. I recommend starting with a 1/16" thick washer. If that doesn't work, try different washers. The good news is that if you put a washer on that is too thick, you won't be able to seat the spline gear deep enough in the hub to get the snap ring back on.

Cam_With_Washer2.jpg

The washer takes up the space left by that little bit of wear in the plastic piece. Clean up the inside of of the hub as much as possible and make sure everything has only a LIGHT coating of grease. Put it all back together, making sure that the new washer fits securely between the bottom of the cam and the plastic ring. The cam, new washer, and plastic ring have to move in and out of the hub, so make sure that the washer is not going to catch on anything.

New_Hub_Gap.jpg

Put the hub on the axle. It should sit flush against the rotor. If it doesn't (screwdriver pointing to gap), rotate the axle to allow all the hub guts to settle together. I incorrectly stated before that there should be a gap here and that the cam is under pressure when installed. Not true. Once everything settles together, you should not have to push against the force of the large hub spring in order to make the hub touch the rotor. Put the tire back on and torque the lug nuts.

With both front tires off the ground, turn the front driveshaft to see if the hubs engage properly. If they do, take it out for a drive to see how they perform under load. Go easy and go slow to start with. Test it in drive and reverse. Listen for the auto hubs engaging and disengaging. If they don't engage--and assuming you don't have other problems--your new washer may be too thick or too thin. Try a different washer.

EXTRA STUFF ON HOW THE HUBS WORK

Spline_On_Axle1.jpg

If you're curious about how the auto hubs work, put the internal spline gear and cam on the axle, making sure that the cam fingers fit into the pockets on the cam assembly. This is the disengaged position. The blue circle shows the finger on the cam sitting in the pocket of the cam assembly.

Spline_On_Axle2.jpg

Turn the front axle to simulate going into 4x4. As you turn the axle, you'll notice that the cam rides up on the cam assembly (blue circle). This is the action that compresses the huge spring inside the hubs and makes the inner teeth inside the hub engage the outer teeth on the spline gear (additional blue circles). This is the engaged position.

I hope that helps. Feel free to add your own thoughts or questions.

Bob
 






Note: I lost my picture server for the following pictures. Original pictures and write ups are available on my Windows Live SkyDrive Here.

See original discussion at: Auto Hubs working again, cross my fingers. I probably won't have my picture server after 2006, so I recommend you save the pictures now or perhaps a moderator can put this in the tech section and host the pictures on the main server. (Edit: Pictures are rehosted below.)

I took some pictures while performing the "Beertime9 Washer Fix" on the automatic hubs of my '97 Ranger.

Many folks have noticed problems with their auto hubs, but upon disassembly they can find nothing blatantly wrong with the hubs. Symptoms include a popping or loud pinging sound while 4x4 is engaged or a grinding sound when you attempt to engage 4x4. The sounds are an indication that the hub will not engage or stay fully engaged.

Don discovered that the pot metal cam on the spline gear and the plastic ring inside the hub that the pot metal cam rubs against can wear over time. As they wear down, the cam can no longer push the internal hub mechanism in far enough to engage the hub gears. Wear seems to be only about 1/32" to 1/16", but it's enough to prevent the internal hub splines from engaging, which are only about 3/8" wide to begin with. Ford will tell you that there are no serviceable parts inside the hub. However, adding a washer between the pot metal cam and the plastic ring seems to replace the worn material and allow the auto hub to engage properly.

95-99_Ranger_Auto_Hub1.jpg


95-99_Ranger_Auto_Hub2.jpg

Here are a couple schematics of the auto hub, although they don't show the guts of the hub. Notice the "cam assembly". That is not the cam I address below.

Snap_Ring.jpg

When the hub is off, look at the aluminum cam (with the three fingers on it). Measure how much space there is between the top of the cam and the top of the spline gear (blue circle). It's about 1/16" in this picture. Your objective is to add a thick enough washer to bring the cam just about flush with the top of the spline gear. Obviously, you don't want it tight. Give it a little wiggle room so that it won't be under pressure when you reinstall the hub. (The picture below shows this same space circled in blue so that you can more easily see what I'm talking about. Of course, you can only take this measurement while the cam and spline gear are installed.) Start by removing the snap ring. You'll see it at the bottom. It's the only thing holding the spline gear and pot metal cam in. Once you have the snap ring off, turn the hub over and thump it on a wooden or padded surface. The only thing holding the spline gear in now is friction with the center post and crud, so sooner or later, it'll fall out.

Spline_With_Cam2.jpg

This is the internal spline with the cam on top. The screwdriver is pointing to little nubs on the tops of the splines. The nubs prevent the cam from coming off the top. It has to slide off the bottom. The blue circle is to exaggerate the gap you'll be measuring while the cam and spline gear are installed.

Plastic_Ring_Wear2.jpg

If you look down inside the hub with the spline gear removed, you'll see the plastic ring. It is held in place by a round metal snap ring (red circle). This is as far as you can disassemble the hub without a press. To disassemble it further, you have to compress the plastic ring (and subsequently the huge spring at the bottom of the hub) far enough to get the round metal snap ring out. The screwdriver is pointing to the wear on the plastic ring. Can you say "planned obsolescence"??!!. What numbskull at Ford decided to use plastic instead of metal? The blue circle indicates the two sets of teeth that engage the outer teeth on the spline gear. When these two sets of teeth mesh, you're in 4x4. See below for a deeper explanation.

Cam1.jpg

On the bottom surface of the cam, you can see the rounded spot that wore into the plastic ring (blue circle). Although I asked some questions in the original thread about whether or not the little teeth sticking up (red circle) were the result of wear, I'm now convinced that the cam was manufactured this way. I can see no way that a plastic ring wore away 1/4" of metal on the cam.

E-2411A_Washer.jpg

This is the Euclid E-2411A air brake cam bushing that I purchased from a local diesel repair shop for 26 cents. The outer diameter was still a little too wide, so I had to grind it down. It should be no wider than the width of the cam. Preferrably, it should be a smidge smaller so that it doesn't catch on the round metal snap ring. On the left is the original size and on the right is the washer after it was ground down. This washer is about 1/16" thick. I put two of these on each cam. A thickness of 1/8" is what I needed to just about make the top of the cam flush with the top of the spline gear but still allow for some wiggle room (maybe 1/32"). That may be too much or not enough for your situation. I recommend starting with a 1/16" thick washer. If that doesn't work, try different washers. The good news is that if you put a washer on that is too thick, you won't be able to seat the spline gear deep enough in the hub to get the snap ring back on.

Cam_With_Washer2.jpg

The washer takes up the space left by that little bit of wear in the plastic piece. Clean up the inside of of the hub as much as possible and make sure everything has only a LIGHT coating of grease. Put it all back together, making sure that the new washer fits securely between the bottom of the cam and the plastic ring. The cam, new washer, and plastic ring have to move in and out of the hub, so make sure that the washer is not going to catch on anything.

New_Hub_Gap.jpg

Put the hub on the axle. It should sit flush against the rotor. If it doesn't (screwdriver pointing to gap), rotate the axle to allow all the hub guts to settle together. I incorrectly stated before that there should be a gap here and that the cam is under pressure when installed. Not true. Once everything settles together, you should not have to push against the force of the large hub spring in order to make the hub touch the rotor. Put the tire back on and torque the lug nuts.

With both front tires off the ground, turn the front driveshaft to see if the hubs engage properly. If they do, take it out for a drive to see how they perform under load. Go easy and go slow to start with. Test it in drive and reverse. Listen for the auto hubs engaging and disengaging. If they don't engage--and assuming you don't have other problems--your new washer may be too thick or too thin. Try a different washer.

EXTRA STUFF ON HOW THE HUBS WORK

Spline_On_Axle1.jpg

If you're curious about how the auto hubs work, put the internal spline gear and cam on the axle, making sure that the cam fingers fit into the pockets on the cam assembly. This is the disengaged position. The blue circle shows the finger on the cam sitting in the pocket of the cam assembly.

Spline_On_Axle2.jpg

Turn the front axle to simulate going into 4x4. As you turn the axle, you'll notice that the cam rides up on the cam assembly (blue circle). This is the action that compresses the huge spring inside the hubs and makes the inner teeth inside the hub engage the outer teeth on the spline gear (additional blue circles). This is the engaged position.

I hope that helps. Feel free to add your own thoughts or questions.

Bob
boy I could sure use those pictures today...

I am in the NW "snowmageddon" and when I put the (1992 XLT) Explorer in 4x4, I hear an occasional klunk on the drivers side - I'm guessing its a hub. Funny thing, I was at a junkyard a few years back, and grabbed a couple hub assemblies, threw them in a box - the cashier chuckled and said: "eh - $5 for those"

So now I'l looking for a "how to disassemble the hub" thread. Having said that, I have done the brake and done the disassemble the bearing side of the hub.. I'm wondering about inside the hub cylinder itself.

Thanks!
 



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Auto hub washer fix

The fix for the shiftless hub problem looks like a good one that I will use to fix my own useless hubs but I think the plastic washer is unfairly and incorrectly diagnosed as the problem.

When the internal spline (that is keyed to the hub) is driven by the cam into engagement with the driven spline set it is pushed by a set of 3 leaf springs against the large coil spring. If the mating splines aren't quite lined up the leaf springs compress so as to not crush the cam assembly. as soon as the splines are in aggreement the leaf springs push the splines into engagement.

The internal spline that is keyed to the hub and is driven by the cam to transfer power from the driven axle to the hub is captured between two sets of springs. It's position, both at rest and when driven into engagement to lock the hub into 4 wd, is dependant on the strength of those two sets of springs (the leaf springs attached to the plastic washer and the large coil spring). When the hub gets a few years on it I think the leaf springs are giving in to age. This causes the coil spring to force the internal spline to ride higher in the hub (closer to the wheel) than when new. The result is that the cam movement is no longer sufficient to drive the hub spline (internal spline) far enough to engage the inner/outer spline that is driven by the axle.

The washer that is placed between the cam and the plastic washer makes up for the loss of power in the leaf springs. You are limited in how much washer you can use by the fixed "slop" in the cam assembly. Too much washer and you will need to compress the spring sets. To actually "fix" the problem the added washer would need to be placed between the leaf springs and the internal spline. In this position you could add exactly the amount you need to get the internal spline back to its original relationship to the driven spline set. Of course, if you have the snap-ring removed you might as well replace the offending leaf springs.

The plastic washer is pushed to its upper limit by the springs below it and against the round metal snapring. If the plastic washer wears down it gets thinner but the difference is lost in the springs, until the plastic gets so thin it no longer holds. The cam height relative to the inernal/external spline will be the same no matter how thick the plastic washer is. Aditionally the plastic washer can't be worn down across it's whole width as the cam only rides on a part of it's width. If the plastic ring were wearing it would develop a groove and no longer be flat across it's width.


Add that washer where?
 






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