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bagged sport trac

If you lower your truck, it's obvious you're going to hit more often, it's just a draw you take. Cutting them lessens the happenings of it obviously. I know probably about once a week I go over a dip a little too fast, the front end tops out and then slams the airdam to the ground for a few seconds. I've started to drive extremely cautious on roads like those, so I'm getting better. :p
 



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Wow, the meat of this thread was uncalled for and silly. I guess the opinions of a lowered X seems to be if you like the lowered look and handling you learn to adjust to it. You know it going in that the ride will be harsh if you push it. If you're not into the lowered thing, don't do it.
 






well I don't have a bagged Sport Trac but I do own a bagged vehicle..

When I dropped the truck 3/4 the truck rode really rough.. Most of it was do to the fact I put stiffer shocks since all I did was put drop i-beams (still had stock springs). The rear was a pain in the but since I never notched it I slapped axle all day long..

Now its bagged the truck drives a lot better than when it was static dropped. The rear rides pretty much like stock if not better.. You will lose some cornering just cause the better ride is usually with the least amount of pressure in the bags. Properly setup you can get your Ex to ride better than stock.. Whatever you do make sure you run a 4 link in the rear, and if you are going to use conveluted bag sin the rear you will need to go to a leveraged bag system.

Pics of the ranger here

Pic of the ranger and my 04 Explorer

and for those that wanted to see a bagged Sport Trac

DSC02509.jpg


DSC02510.jpg


DSC01941.jpg


23.jpg
 












Unreal paint jobs! WOW! :eek:

Just so you know, lo xplorer, modifying your bumpstop does not change the harsh ride AT ALL. It just prevents it from bottoming out. Cutting them some and with the right set of shocks will help a lot at this (bottoming out).
 






X~FACTOR said:
Just so you know, lo xplorer, modifying your bumpstop does not change the harsh ride AT ALL. It just prevents it from bottoming out. Cutting them some and with the right set of shocks will help a lot at this (bottoming out).

Didn't help me a bit.....
 






Hi all:

If after lowering the Ex, you don't hit the bump stops, why would the ride be any different? The spring rate doesn't change, so if you don't change shocks and don't run out of suspension travel, what's the cause of the bad ride?

Regards,
John.
 






The harsh ride is the slamming ( bottoming out ) against the frame at the slightest irruglarity in the road.
 






I seem to think aldive's results are unique. I have a hard time believing that the very slightest irregularities in the road causes slamming on the frame. It doesn't make sense for so many people to lower if thats the case. Maybe the weight, age, stereo, or something has to do with it. But, I am not lowered yet and could be completely wrong. :p
 






I have never ridden in any lowered truck that didn't bottom out. I pur up with it for a long time, falsely hoping that it was my imagination. Anyone who rode with me hayed it.
 






well you can eliminate the bottoming out of the frame by notching the frame. That will give you a couple of inches of travel..

My problem when I lowered the ranger the suspension was stiffer because I changed the shocks from stock to a stiffer shock. If you didn't change the springs and changed your shocks that probably why your ride is stiffer.. except for bottoming out.. Like I said that can be fixed with a notch plate and a plasma cutter in about 30 minutes..
 






This is just my opinion, but I think a big problem with the TT drop is the fact that we are taking so much preload off of the bars thus lowering the spring rate too much. Typical lowering springs are usually higher rate than factory or even rising rate. Our torsion bars suspensions end up at a lower rate and are required to operate with reduced travel. A good shock helps but it is really only controlling the action of the spring. We need more damn spring to control the bottoming as far as I am concerned. Cut or shorter bumpstops give us a little more travel but still don't prevent bottoming. The lower you go, the more the rate drops, thus probably the reason EE only goes 1 3/8". They use softer stops to try to "cushion" the bottoming, so I think they would even admit it is a problem.

I'm reaching here, but I don't even think a higher rate torsion bar would be the answer. The problem comes from a given amount of spring rate dictating the height of the vehicles ride. You don't lower a car with softer springs of the same height, but that is really what we are doing when we lower an X. I keep thinking V8 bars on a V6 would be the ticket, but it would just sit higher for a given amount of preload. To get the desired amount of drop, the rate would end up being the same IMO. The whole design works against us since the weight of the vehicle can't be isolated from the desired amount of drop for a given spring rate. I hope that made some sort of sense?

Now, if we could run a higher rate coil setup, life would be good. :)

Oh, to add to the ST conversation, Sport Trac bodys are said to be mounted on stiffer polyurethane bushings than regular Explorers, which might give then a little bit harsher ride when lowered.
 






98X5.0 said:
This is just my opinion, but I think a big problem with the TT drop is the fact that we are taking so much preload off of the bars thus lowering the spring rate too much. Typical lowering springs are usually higher rate than factory or even rising rate. Our torsion bars suspensions end up at a lower rate and are required to operate with reduced travel.

you don't lower the spring rate of a torsion bar by adjusting the bolt, the rod still has the same stiffness as it would at stock. all you are mearly doing is adjusting the range of the suspension. like at stock say the range is +-3 inches, that number will never change no matter what. All you are really doing with a torsion twist is moving it down or up.... nothing to do with spring rate. The only slight exception is the direction of force on the arm. If we compared the arm being parallel to the ground and taking an impact as oposed it being at a 30 degree angle(extreme) the distance from the end of the arm to the mounting on the cross member is longer when its parallel to the ground there for giving it more leverage and therefore making less of an impact... its tough to explain over this... maybe i can try and draw a picture.
 






98X5.0 said:
This is just my opinion, but I think a big problem with the TT drop is the fact that we are taking so much preload off of the bars thus lowering the spring rate too much. Typical lowering springs are usually higher rate than factory or even rising rate. Our torsion bars suspensions end up at a lower rate and are required to operate with reduced travel. A good shock helps but it is really only controlling the action of the spring. We need more damn spring to control the bottoming as far as I am concerned. Cut or shorter bumpstops give us a little more travel but still don't prevent bottoming. The lower you go, the more the rate drops, thus probably the reason EE only goes 1 3/8". They use softer stops to try to "cushion" the bottoming, so I think they would even admit it is a problem.

I'm reaching here, but I don't even think a higher rate torsion bar would be the answer. The problem comes from a given amount of spring rate dictating the height of the vehicles ride. You don't lower a car with softer springs of the same height, but that is really what we are doing when we lower an X. I keep thinking V8 bars on a V6 would be the ticket, but it would just sit higher for a given amount of preload. To get the desired amount of drop, the rate would end up being the same IMO. The whole design works against us since the weight of the vehicle can't be isolated from the desired amount of drop for a given spring rate. I hope that made some sort of sense?

Now, if we could run a higher rate coil setup, life would be good. :)

Oh, to add to the ST conversation, Sport Trac bodys are said to be mounted on stiffer polyurethane bushings than regular Explorers, which might give then a little bit harsher ride when lowered.
They are a bit differant than the normal Ex 99% of the experts on this site are used to,it has been said by the pros that they are identical, it just is not so, the geometry may be close to the same, the same tweeks one makes to a sport, have entire differant results on a trac.
 






spindlecone said:
They are a bit differant than the normal Ex 99% of the experts on this site are used to,it has been said by the pros that they are identical, it just is not so, the geometry may be close to the same, the same tweeks one makes to a sport, have entire differant results on a trac.

Honestly, show me/us some proof. I've followed you in this thread, and none of your comments have absolutely no backing at all. Show me some write-ups or logs of professionals you speak of, and these tweaks you're talking about. I'm extremely open to all of this because I do not own a ST and probably never will, I don't mind learning at all.

Take pictures and specification sheets of both vehicles and show me the comparisons where the ST is different than the X... I'll be waiting.
 






NusenseSD said:
well you can eliminate the bottoming out of the frame by notching the frame. That will give you a couple of inches of travel..
....That can't be good for crash protection...and maybe even illegal in some areas :eek:
 






Hi all:

Nick26 said:
you don't lower the spring rate of a torsion bar by adjusting the bolt, the rod still has the same stiffness as it would at stock. all you are mearly doing is adjusting the range of the suspension. like at stock say the range is +-3 inches, that number will never change no matter what. All you are really doing with a torsion twist is moving it down or up.... nothing to do with spring rate...

Exactly my point. I am not questioning the experience of those who have done the TT mod (I have not done it yet). I am just wondering why people say it rides worse, but that it isn't bottoming out. How can this be? The spring rate doesn't change, just the static ride height of the suspension within its travel. Either it really is bottoming out, or it doesn't ride worse, or there is something else going on that hasn't been explained (like changing shocks or wheels). Not trying to start something, just trying to learn.

Regards,
John.
 






the_tool_man said:
Exactly my point. I am not questioning the experience of those who have done the TT mod (I have not done it yet). I am just wondering why people say it rides worse, but that it isn't bottoming out. How can this be? The spring rate doesn't change, just the static ride height of the suspension within its travel. Either it really is bottoming out, or it doesn't ride worse, or there is something else going on that hasn't been explained (like changing shocks or wheels). Not trying to start something, just trying to learn.

well by lowering it 2 inches say, you are compressing the shock an extra 2 inches more than normal so that will be tighter than at regular height, if you corrected it with the right height shocks and cut the bumpstops then there shouldn't be anything to make the ride worse.
 






spindlecone said:
They are a bit differant than the normal Ex 99% of the experts on this site are used to,it has been said by the pros that they are identical, it just is not so, the geometry may be close to the same, the same tweeks one makes to a sport, have entire differant results on a trac.

once and for all, Where are you getting this from? names? places? :rolleyes:
 



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Hi Nick26:

Nick26 said:
well by lowering it 2 inches say, you are compressing the shock an extra 2 inches more than normal so that will be tighter than at regular height, if you corrected it with the right height shocks and cut the bumpstops then there shouldn't be anything to make the ride worse.

Shocks don't get tighter as the ride height is lowered. They are designed to damp out unwanted wheel motion, so they respond to suspension movement, not position like springs do. As long as the shocks don't run out of travel, they should be fine. Maybe that's it, though. It seems unlikely that they would if the stock suspension travel is retained, but maybe they're bottoming out.

Regards,
John.
 






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