E15 Fuel in our future? | Page 3 | Ford Explorer Forums - Serious Explorations

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E15 Fuel in our future?

This is in some ways the same as the use of "Dry Gas" during the winter. It pulls the water out of the fuel but also dries out rubber gas lines and causes them to crack, split and leak. As I've mentioned previously, there are just so many takes as to what the consequences could be to your vehicle.
 



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Your fuel lines will be fine. Vehicles made to run on e-85 use the same fuel lines as every other car they make. It is only REALLY old cars where you need to worry about the alcohol deteriorating the fuel lines. Auto manufacturers are just protecting themselves from liability, since they don't test those things, if they say something is ok and it is not, they would have a lot of lawsuits, EVEN though they would just be going off the EPA studies.

Auto manufacturers tell you that you shouldn't do a lot of things with cars that are perfectly fine. That is because they don't test the vehicles with all of those things done.
 






Your fuel lines will be fine. Vehicles made to run on e-85 use the same fuel lines as every other car they make. It is only REALLY old cars where you need to worry about the alcohol deteriorating the fuel lines. Auto manufacturers are just protecting themselves from liability, since they don't test those things, if they say something is ok and it is not, they would have a lot of lawsuits, EVEN though they would just be going off the EPA studies.

Auto manufacturers tell you that you shouldn't do a lot of things with cars that are perfectly fine. That is because they don't test the vehicles with all of those things done.

WRONG!!! go and look up the fuel line parts for an E85 and 'regular' vehicle. flex fuel vehicles have fuel lines that are manufactured with ethanol resistant fluorinated polymers (cost). Also, aluminum and zinc die cast intake parts are especially suceptible to corrosion from ethanol. Thus flex fuel vehicle need to use fuel metering components that will withstand the corrosive properties of ethanol.
 






Like I said, your cars will run up to e-20 without any issue.

Stop listening to this ! No where does it say, from Ford or otherwise, that any 5th generation Explorer, will not have issues and you are ok to use E-20.
This is just plain BS............best regards Plum
 






Find, a South Dakota resident, probably has a pretty good incentive for ethanol. Look at what corn prices have done for the economies in farm country (SD included). It's been a tremendous windfall, at the expense of others.
 






Well didn't this type of issue arise when we went to unleaded fuel? As I recall, it would be the end of cars that were engineered for lead in fuel ..... something about the lead seating the rings. There wasn't an issue when it came about, even though there were lead additives marketed for these vehicles that could be added to a tank of fuel.
 






WRONG!!! go and look up the fuel line parts for an E85 and 'regular' vehicle. flex fuel vehicles have fuel lines that are manufactured with ethanol resistant fluorinated polymers (cost). Also, aluminum and zinc die cast intake parts are especially suceptible to corrosion from ethanol. Thus flex fuel vehicle need to use fuel metering components that will withstand the corrosive properties of ethanol.

There is no difference in the rubber fuel lines. The parts are different for a couple reasons. 1 E-85 vehicles run higher fuel pressures and volumes. 2 the routing is different to accommodate the sensors.

I ran e-85 for years in a turbocharged 92 escort to no ill effects. LOTS of people tune their high performance cars to run e-85 because it is a cheap, high octane fuel, which means they can tune more aggressively. It is REALLY big in the Subaru community. I looked up all of this stuff at the time because I was still concerned about all the old wive's tales like the one you are repeating. I found out they weren't any more true then than they are now.

Stop listening to this ! No where does it say, from Ford or otherwise, that any 5th generation Explorer, will not have issues and you are ok to use E-20.
This is just plain BS............best regards Plum

No, like I said, Ford doesn't say you can. Ford doesn't do emissions testings for blends above 10% ethanol or fuel economy testing. The EPA and several other organizations however do. Ford won't tell you to do anything they haven't tested for, there are liability issues.

Find, a South Dakota resident, probably has a pretty good incentive for ethanol. Look at what corn prices have done for the economies in farm country (SD included). It's been a tremendous windfall, at the expense of others.

You wanna bet? Ethanol has not had any significant impact on corn prices or our economies. Anyway, I work in academics, so... My job is safe with or without corn prices. Besides, REALLY high corn prices don't actually do much to help the farmer either. Higher corn prices means higher feed prices, and as you know, livestock is another huge industry here. Higher corn prices also means higher seed prices, and higher prices of other things made with ethanol, including some fertilizers, herbicides and pesticides. You may think that per bushel prices going through the roof means a farmer rolling naked in a pile of money, but it doesn't. Besides, the reason for such high prices in the last year were droughts. Higher demand for more and more corn/soybeans actually means we have to use more expensive farming techniques just to meet demand. If you don't make every acre insanely productive, you will just end up broke and bankrupt, and your farm land will eventually go to some corporate farm. The farming techniques needed to make land productive enough to afford the farming techniques require more fertilizers, pesticides, herbicides, fungicides, irrigation, and far more strict planting and harvest schedules.

Considering the HUGE surplus we produce of food crops every year and have to sell to foreign countries, you have nothing to worry about when it comes to part of our corn and soybean production being shifted towards biofuels. If nothing else, we'll sell a little less to China.

Besides, as we are using more and more biofuels, we are always looking at cheaper and better sources for biofuel, like algae or switchgrass.

Either way, believe it or not, I am not some government or farmer shill that is behind a giant conspiracy to separate your cash from your wallet...

Also, in this state, ethanol free fuel is available EVERYWHERE.

Well didn't this type of issue arise when we went to unleaded fuel? As I recall, it would be the end of cars that were engineered for lead in fuel ..... something about the lead seating the rings. There wasn't an issue when it came about, even though there were lead additives marketed for these vehicles that could be added to a tank of fuel.

Pretty much sums up the whole argument. Auto manufacturers and most of the public said that lead free fuel would cause a laundry list of issues. Improper sealing, drying out fuel lines, power loss, cats sleeping with dogs, the end of the horseless carriage, global thermonuclear war, you name it and someone was saying lead free fuel would cause it. Every single time the government even hints at some new standard or requirement for cars, there is a horde of "experts" on the subject who have heard that the change is going to cause the end of civilization as we know it.

Yet the 48 F-3 pickup my grandpa gave me kept on running just fine.
 






Well didn't this type of issue arise when we went to unleaded fuel? As I recall, it would be the end of cars that were engineered for lead in fuel ..... something about the lead seating the rings. There wasn't an issue when it came about, even though there were lead additives marketed for these vehicles that could be added to a tank of fuel.
From what I've been able to gather about this issue is that the concern isn't about whether or not the vehicle can run on E15 but about the corrosive nature of the fuel with the added alcohol content and its affects on fuel lines and the delivery system itself. The specs for these items would have to be changed by the manufacturer like they did for the E85 vehicles.

Peter
 






You wanna bet? Ethanol has not had any significant impact on corn prices or our economies.

It depends on whose analysis you believe......
 






Im no scientist nor do I have a wall full of degrees but I can tell you since Delaware was one of the first places to mandate blended fuel that in the two shops I work out of and the several others I deal with fuel related problems have been the result. Ethinal attracts moisture and its pretty humid here. And the corrosive thing yea its true. And as far as the old issue of unleaded in a leaded motor well I've had to fix plenty of motors that were rebuilt without hardened valve seats and after a 1000 miles or so BOOM! So like I said its real and the general opinion around here is its the ( gooberments) way of sayin **** or get off the pot. They dont want old cars on the road period!
 






Del, I'm going to respectfully disagree. I never saw those types of issues in my years as a mechanic, and ethanol has been in the Dakotas for quite some time.

Ethanol is not corrosive. It has a neutral PH, similar to gasoline. Corrosive suggests an acid. It is however a great solvent, just like gasoline, but that doesn't make any difference to fuel delivery components. It is also quite polar, which means it conducts or generates electric fields better than gasoline, which can lead to corrosion just like running a DC current through any metal in the presence of water... but... government works faster than that ever will. You are talking about INCREDIBLY small inductive currents and fairly pure water. You are 100% correct though, ethanol pulls water out of stuff, like any alcohol. So it can cause shorter fuel filter life or, in EXTREME cases, increased wear of components like injectors. Increasing the ethanol content of fuel by a small amount will not change any of these things, nor will it make any of them worse. The differences are only really pronounced when you go to VERY high ethanol contents like with e-85.

It depends on whose analysis you believe......

I meant the economy of farm states.
 






Im not trying to suggest its like an accid but I can tell you around here and keep in mind the moisture in this region we have found everything from tank to intake most commonly pumps filters fuel rails and lines rotting from inside out. Now I will say and im sure its common knowlage that any thing carbureted will have major problems unless rebuilt with ethinal compatable kits . It eats through rubber.
 






Yeah, carburated cars have a lot more problems because of the rubbers used in low pressure fuel lines, since it can saturate the lower quality rubber. Alcohol molecules are small enough to fit between the rubber molecules in the lower grade rubber, especially when the rubber gets to be old, but then again, when rubber gets old enough, the gasoline will saturate it too. Like I said, ethanol is much more of a problem for MUCH older cars. Any fuel injected car or even TBI car is already using a much more durable rubber for fuel lines, since it needs to withstand higher pressures.
 






Im no scientist nor do I have a wall full of degrees but I can tell you since Delaware was one of the first places to mandate blended fuel that in the two shops I work out of and the several others I deal with fuel related problems have been the result. Ethinal attracts moisture and its pretty humid here. And the corrosive thing yea its true. And as far as the old issue of unleaded in a leaded motor well I've had to fix plenty of motors that were rebuilt without hardened valve seats and after a 1000 miles or so BOOM! So like I said its real and the general opinion around here is its the ( gooberments) way of sayin **** or get off the pot. They dont want old cars on the road period!
Yea, but we're not even talking old cars any longer. They are saying most cars out there will be affected ..... and mine is a 2012! Growing up, I saw many "old" cars on the road that had surpassed their life span ......... Now adays, you just don't any longer. It just seems that this would have an impact on any car on the road today ...... even 2012's and 2013's !!!!!!! :mad:
 






Yea, but we're not even talking old cars any longer. They are saying most cars out there will be affected ..... and mine is a 2012! Growing up, I saw many "old" cars on the road that had surpassed their life span ......... Now adays, you just don't any longer. It just seems that this would have an impact on any car on the road today ...... even 2012's and 2013's !!!!!!! :mad:

I remember back when people figured on the life expectancy of a car being under 100k miles, and they were happy if they got over 100k.

Now days, cars are expected to have a life expectancy of 200k+
 






I remember back when people figured on the life expectancy of a car being under 100k miles, and they were happy if they got over 100k.

Now days, cars are expected to have a life expectancy of 200k+
Well the concensous was that in years past, the engine would die before the body gave way ...... That has flipped in the other direction now....... Unless E15 does them in !!! :fire:
 












Woah, lets chill out.

Ethanol can eat rubber, it attracts moisture, and it makes less energy (so lower mpg/less power).

But your 2012, 2013, 20 whatever will be fine. If my 97 explorer and 91 ranger are fine, your brand new car will be fine. The explorer likes a bottle of HEET water remover every once in awhile, which is probably the ethanols fault. But seriously, that costs me $15 a year if that. I'm more pissed about the lower mpg. But then again, I'm pissed about the cost of gas in the first place.

Bodies don't rut out in the south, so motors are the first to die here. The new plastic bodies can't rot, so the motor will die first regardless of where you live. Honestly, does it matter? You mean to tell me you bought a brand new car and you're gonna drive it till it dies? It'll be good for 300,000 miles if you take decent care of it. How many miles you drive in year.....


Now the dirt bike, lawn mower, weed eater, ect really don't like ethanol. Those tanks let water in easier, which lets the gas go bad. And we want all the power we can get from our toys, I don't want any power loss in my dirt bike. Not that I need everything it makes I hardly ever hold it wide open, but I want it there. If I want higher octane I'll go to race gas. Never needed it, 13:1 compression burns 93 octane fine. Whatever I get next might just need race gas, I've been looking at a KTM 150. So I'll be bumping up compression, spark, ect :D
 






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