Solved - Exploring Forced Induction: The Fluid MotorUnion Ford Explorer Turbo Build Thread! | Page 7 | Ford Explorer Forums - Serious Explorations

  • Register Today It's free!

Solved Exploring Forced Induction: The Fluid MotorUnion Ford Explorer Turbo Build Thread!

Prefix for threads that contain problems that have been resolved, and there is an answer within the thread.
Probably right. I don't think the stock bottom end on a 4700 pound vehicle can handle more than that range. Especially if it has a 6r80 with no trans tuning or valve body work.

Mine makes 400 to the rollers at 5psi so his should be higher...until it dies!


Well the stock 4.6 bottom end in these trucks can only take about 450rwhp before they give up the ghost. Most keep it to less than 400 just to play it safe. So as long as the power is kept within check then all should be well. I don't have much experience with the newer Explorers with the 6 speed auto transmissions. Can they not be tuned yet? I just assumed that by now the TCM would have been able to be accessed to allow full recalibration. With the newer electronic transmissions it is not nearly as necessary to modify the valve body to allow for more durability with added power since there is an absolute vast amount of settings that can be modified in the tune to modify the way clutches are applied to allow for holding more power. But on the flip side of that coin, if the transmission is not tuned correctly then it can also grenade at power levels much lower than its hardware would have otherwise been able to hold. Now of course once you exceed the hardware limitations then now matter how good the tune is you will still break. That was one of the main reasons why I ditched the 5R55W transmission in my 2003 Explorer and went with a standalone controlled built 4R70W so that it could take some very serious abuse. I am curious to see what the limitation of the hardware is for the Ford 6 speed transmissions in the Explorers.
 



Join the Elite Explorers for $20 each year.
Elite Explorer members see no advertisements, no banner ads, no double underlined links,.
Add an avatar, upload photo attachments, and more!
.





You've waited patiently for it, now here it is -- dyno footage of Scott's twin-turbocharged Ford Explorer.

explorer_dyno.jpg


The following video has been created to showcase the new sound and fury behind what started out as a stock 2006 Ford Explorer with the 4.6L Modular V8 motor. What started as an idea for a rear-mount turbo kit turned into an in-bay, twin-turbo setup that carved new pathways for those looking for forced induction solutions on the Explorer. As it hadn't been done before, there was a great amount of research and design effort that went into this build, and we're happy that the tuning is basically finished at this point. A few small hiccups sprouted up along the way, but we remained determined to knock those gremlins out, which we eventually did. From there, all it was was a matter of refining the tune to get everything where we wanted it. The second the car was making the sound and power we wanted, we grabbed the Handycam, and this is the result.

Final power numbers are right around 314 all wheel horsepower, which is 6 under the awhp rating for a Lamborghini Gallardo. Not too shabby for an automatic transmission and a composite intake manifold. You may notice the power is a bit under the 400 awhp rating; we kept the tune a bit more mild, as it's a daily driver and he wasn't in a hunt for the maximum allowable power. And for those of you who noticed that only the rear wheels are moving even though it's all-wheel drive, our Dyno Dynamics dyno was not working well with the Explorer's AWD system, so we ran it through the rear. Even though the front wheels are disconnected, the engine's power still goes through the transfer case, so the loss is closer to an AWD car than a RWD car, hence our description of 'awhp.' Enjoy the video and the corresponding dyno graph!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kn8fy0Xd2g8

explorerdynograph.jpg
 






Isn't that a 4.6L modular V8? 3 valve?

That's decent power. I don't think you're really pushing it until you're closer to 450rwhp.

I think it looks amazing and the quality of your work is some of the best I've ever scene.

I also think that your rolling blog with every detail is amazing in both content and verbage!

I think you left a lot of power on the table though.

As we have asked a billion times, what's the cost on something like this?
 






Any possibility of getting it to the track for some numbers?
 






I do believe he meant 4.6 3v. Also, all though the numbers seem on the low side, track numbers will tell the true story.

Great job and I'm sure the owner is thrilled to have one of the only 4th gen twin turbo Explorers around. Hopefully more vids to come!
 






Well...a stock STA does the 1/4 in 15.9 and supercharged ones do it around 13.5-13.6, with about 86whp more than this TT4.6.

They also have a 6R80 but the trans tuning is dog **** do that is where this thing would have a snowballs chance in beating it.

Because of my monkey turd trans, even after tuning, I can only reach 4.6 sec 0-60mph and a 60' of 2.3 sec.

Not calling him out for a tree but 86whp is a massive difference.
 






Dynoing through the AWD T-case or not, which doesn't rob THAT much power, low 300's at the wheels for HP and TQ is disappointing considering the depth of the project. You must be running single digit spark timing advance and an extremely fat WOT AFR with such low numbers. I understand that the truck isn't meant to be some sort of full on dragracing vehicle but that is EXTREMELY ultra-conservative considering that the stock 4.6 3v bottom end can take an additional 75-100rwhp all day long. To do justice to the fabrication that this project required I suggest turning the wick up a bit.
 






Sorry to take past the holidays to get back to you guys! It got a little hectic at the shop for various reasons. But we do appreciate all the kind words from you guys up to this point! That being said, let's address this comment:

Dynoing through the AWD T-case or not, which doesn't rob THAT much power, low 300's at the wheels for HP and TQ is disappointing considering the depth of the project. You must be running single digit spark timing advance and an extremely fat WOT AFR with such low numbers. I understand that the truck isn't meant to be some sort of full on dragracing vehicle but that is EXTREMELY ultra-conservative considering that the stock 4.6 3v bottom end can take an additional 75-100rwhp all day long. To do justice to the fabrication that this project required I suggest turning the wick up a bit.

To answer your first couple assumptions regarding the tune, we're in the double digits for timing, and high 11's for the AFR. The tune would take further advances in timing, but during road tests it would occasionally start to pull timing again.

While we do appreciate the kind words about the fabrication, we feel the power is at a point where it's safe and reliable as a DD, and we're saying this as the people who created the kit from scratch and sat with it on the dyno and the road with our laptop.

First, the power may actually be higher than the dyno shows, since Dyno Dynamics dynos tend to read on the lower end of the scale. However, dynamometer theory discussions can go on for days, so I won't get too far into it. Some people just choose to eschew dyno results completely, and we can't blame 'em -- not only are they different from brand to brand, but tuners also have methods of tweaking the systems to make it look like vehicles are producing more power than they actually are. Evidence of its speed on the track is a different story, but we can't attest as to whether the owner will put his grocery getter on the strip for some numbers.

We DID increase timing and boost to where the Explorer was producing ~360 whp (7 psi), but that's when the known unknown came into play regarding the safe functionality of the vehicle -- the transmission. At 360 whp (7 psi), the transmission began acting up. There would be a long pause of confusion in-between shifts, followed by a nice strong thud as the TCM finally figured out what was happening. That's not exactly something we were comfortable in giving back to the owner.

And sadly, SCT told us the TCM is still off limits for tuning/tweaking, as SCT have yet to come up with a solution to allow that. They told us going into the build that the trans may exhibit issues as power rose well above OEM levels, but we didn't experience one bit of that finicky b.s. until we cranked the power up to 360whp or so. Whether it's isolated to just Scott's Explorer's transmission remains to be seen, but any more power than we currently have on there will risk grenading the transmission, judging by how it responds to even just 7 psi.

You seem to have a lot of knowledge of both tuning and expected power gains for blown Ford motors. Do you happen to own a shop? Merely curious.
 






Yeah, not all that excited about the exact HP from the dyno - lets get some 1/4 mile / 0-60 times ;)

As for the trans, that is a real bummer. I am planning one of two options for my truck - install the Saleen Series VI S/C I have in the garage or swap in a 5.4L 3V engine. I was hoping SCT would have figured something out for the trans at this point. The trans is the single biggest enjoyment inhibitor on these trucks. The shift points / responsiveness just plan suck!

Any chance of letting the cat out of the bag and telling us what this system ran (or would run to duplicate)???
 






Sorry to take past the holidays to get back to you guys! It got a little hectic at the shop for various reasons. But we do appreciate all the kind words from you guys up to this point! That being said, let's address this comment:



To answer your first couple assumptions regarding the tune, we're in the double digits for timing, and high 11's for the AFR. The tune would take further advances in timing, but during road tests it would occasionally start to pull timing again.

While we do appreciate the kind words about the fabrication, we feel the power is at a point where it's safe and reliable as a DD, and we're saying this as the people who created the kit from scratch and sat with it on the dyno and the road with our laptop.

First, the power may actually be higher than the dyno shows, since Dyno Dynamics dynos tend to read on the lower end of the scale. However, dynamometer theory discussions can go on for days, so I won't get too far into it. Some people just choose to eschew dyno results completely, and we can't blame 'em -- not only are they different from brand to brand, but tuners also have methods of tweaking the systems to make it look like vehicles are producing more power than they actually are. Evidence of its speed on the track is a different story, but we can't attest as to whether the owner will put his grocery getter on the strip for some numbers.

We DID increase timing and boost to where the Explorer was producing ~360 whp (7 psi), but that's when the known unknown came into play regarding the safe functionality of the vehicle -- the transmission. At 360 whp (7 psi), the transmission began acting up. There would be a long pause of confusion in-between shifts, followed by a nice strong thud as the TCM finally figured out what was happening. That's not exactly something we were comfortable in giving back to the owner.

And sadly, SCT told us the TCM is still off limits for tuning/tweaking, as SCT have yet to come up with a solution to allow that. They told us going into the build that the trans may exhibit issues as power rose well above OEM levels, but we didn't experience one bit of that finicky b.s. until we cranked the power up to 360whp or so. Whether it's isolated to just Scott's Explorer's transmission remains to be seen, but any more power than we currently have on there will risk grenading the transmission, judging by how it responds to even just 7 psi.

You seem to have a lot of knowledge of both tuning and expected power gains for blown Ford motors. Do you happen to own a shop? Merely curious.


Do you know why it was pulling timing? Were you logging any KR during your pulls or was it clipping the spark from another table such as IAT or ECT? Was it pulling spark at WOT or part throttle cruise, or both? If you did log KR did your baseline pulls show this too, where it could possibly be false knock being logged; or did any logged KR go away once spark was pulled in the tune? In some vehicles I have tuned the knock sensors were hyper-sensitized which caused a massive timing pull even if no real knock was occurring. I have tuned some vehicles that turned out to be so finicky with spark advance that I ended up logging spark source during the pulls so I knew exactly where the spark was being commanded from so I could tell what was clipping it. Most of the time it is pretty easy to tell what is clipping the spark but certain vehicles really like to fight it.

I used to run a performance vehicle business a while back dealing with a little bit of everything but military service obligations ended up getting in the way so much that I had to close things down. I have been in this game for a while, mainly centering around Ford and GM vehicles, but have branched out on occasion to doing FI on motorcycles and other somewhat interesting projects.

Best of luck with the project. It will have allot of potential once all the kinks are ironed out! :thumbsup:
 






Too bad nobody can figure out the trans on these trucks, it's the only thing holding back, the stock trans is so lazy even stock nevermind when adding power lol.
 






Any updates? Ex back with owner?
 






cool video. I wonder when the owner of explorer will take it to the track.
 






Great fab work, absolutely beautiful, but 314HP... that's depressing:(

"Your ET / MPH computed from your vehicle weight of 4500 pounds and HP of 314 is 14.15 seconds and MPH of 94.70 MPH.
 






awesome keep up good work
 






i love that dyno, i always wanted any AWD dyno dynamics dyno for my shop. you have some really sweet fab work on that truck. if you need any advice just ask rocket, my advice is to usally go the radical route. FYI the composite intake quote i keep seeing is kinda funny i dont see them as a down fall i guess as much. i love the one on my subaru and i saw one go 7.60 in a full weight f body two weeks ago.
 






Sure would like to know if the owner has his Ex back and how it is running. Re: FMU's work, it Is Radical. Cant say I saw many American vehicles at their shop, but there was a Regal GN there. Always wanted a GN and sure would like to see what they did with that too. As I stated briefly, I saw the lifted BMW X5 driving thru the suburbs. Was able to track it down and snap a few pics. Never seen anything like it.
 












turbo's :)
 



Join the Elite Explorers for $20 each year.
Elite Explorer members see no advertisements, no banner ads, no double underlined links,.
Add an avatar, upload photo attachments, and more!
.





lbk mik8, havent stayed current, is Troll's Explorer still around?

FMU, any updates on the Ex??
 






Back
Top