More problems after 0012m upper/lower manafold gasket, Tentioner kit fix

[2000StreetRod]

Nut in the head

What size socket fits that nut. It looks like one of the 4 motor mount nuts if it is large enough.

 

[2000StreetRod]

Engine stand spacers?

I believe you mentioned that two of the 75mm bolts for your engine stand were too short for the guide bushings. But in the photo it looks like there are spacers at those positions. Are the spacers removable or did you purchase longer bolts?

 

[2000StreetRod]

Piston dings & broken guide

The dings in the pistons from the exhaust valves are uniform and due to the timing slip. I believe you measured the camshaft to be 50 degrees off which is 100 degrees of crankshaft timing. The valve damage is much less than I would have expected compared to the damage to the pistons. I doubt that the piston could have passed TDC with that nut wedged between the valve face and its seat.

Your rear guide traction side broke in about the same area as mine. I suspect when it broke the lower section caught the chain causing it to slip and retard the timing. Retarding the camshaft timing reduces the clearance between the closing exhaust valve and the piston rising toward TDC.

 

[cjmedina]

I believe you mentioned that two of the 75mm bolts for your engine stand were too short for the guide bushings. But in the photo it looks like there are spacers at those positions. Are the spacers removable or did you purchase longer bolts?

I had to go back to Homedepot to see if they had longer bolts. They had 100mm. I was able to use the 75mm at the top but where they go through the bottom guide holes the 100mm was a little to long. I knew this when I bought them. So I used 2 spacers.

 

[cjmedina]

The dings in the pistons from the exhaust valves are uniform and due to the timing slip. I believe you measured the camshaft to be 50 degrees off which is 100 degrees of crankshaft timing. The valve damage is much less than I would have expected compared to the damage to the pistons. I doubt that the piston could have passed TDC with that nut wedged between the valve face and its seat.

Your rear guide traction side broke in about the same area as mine. I suspect when it broke the lower section caught the chain causing it to slip and retard the timing. Retarding the camshaft timing reduces the clearance between the closing exhaust valve and the piston rising toward TDC.

The dings in the piston looks to be very slight even though they left an impression in the tops. I don't know if I even need to check the rod bearings. I could sand out the edges so there are no hot spots from ignition.

The nut had to be a recent accident. The only way that could of got there was through the intake. however I don't understand why it never dropped in the cylinder. I did mention that a rocker was laying in the head. that may be why it never dropped in. I will have to get the head replaced or fixed. I have a local machine shop that I can make a deal with.

I'm wondering if I should ask for a deal for both heads. Also do you think I should do a complete engine inspection of front timing cover and oil pan?

Cliff

 

[cjmedina]

Socket size of this Nut

What size socket fits that nut. It looks like one of the 4 motor mount nuts if it is large enough.

An 11mm socket fits this Galvanized nut/washer combo. Where did it come from?

 

[2000StreetRod]

ground strap

An 11mm socket fits this Galvanized nut/washer combo. Where did it come from?

There is a ground strap that goes from the rear of the right head to one of the windshield wiper motor mounting studs. The wiper motor end of the groundstrap is mounted with a nut like that.

 

[bluestream1]

11mm is not a common fastener size. Are you sure that is not an SAE size nut? I have not seen a galvanized nut like that anywhere on my truck.

 

[cjmedina]

Bent Valve?

How could it of hit the piston and leave an impression and not show a mark on the valve?

 

[2000StreetRod]

Assemble the guide pieces

. . . Also do you think I should do a complete engine inspection of front timing cover and oil pan?
Cliff

When you get the lower section of the guide removed I suggest you assemble the pieces to see if any are missing. If there are, you should remove the lower oil pan and check for pieces. Also, check the oil pickup tube screen for fragments. You may find fragments in the pan from the primary tensioner so inspect them carefully. That will influence your decision on removing the front timing cover. A primary tensioner kit from Ford costs $110. The only failed item may be the actual tensioner which only costs $28 but you'll also need the gasket ($9) and dampener bolt ($4).

 

[cjmedina]

I can pull up on the guide and it swivels on the shaft like it should. It looks like it was a clean break but won't know for sure until tomorrow.

Cliff

 

[2000StreetRod]

Compression test

. . . The valves look to be seated, but that is some dink in the piston. . .

As I recall you never performed a compression test with the correct camshaft timing. Too bad. That would have told you if the valves were seating properly. Do you plan to take the head to a shop and have it checked/repaired or are you going to purchase a replacement?

 

[cjmedina]

As I recall you never performed a compression test with the correct camshaft timing. Too bad. That would have told you if the valves were seating properly. Do you plan to take the head to a shop and have it checked/repaired or are you going to purchase a replacement?

I never went any further after I saw the the last valve sitting low thinking of a bent valve at that point I didn't know that a nut was between the edge of the valve and seat causing it. Actually I would have had even more damage if I did the compression check as the nut would of dropped in the cylinder causing the pistons to take a beating.

I still don't know where that nut came from but it must of dropped in the last time I removed the lower intake.

I haven't done any work on it the last few days because it's been raining and unseasonably COLD....So much for Global warming!

Cliff

 

[McSlug]

I wanted to comment on this thread a bit earlier, but it was a bit late anyway.
I saw post with the plastic you used to lock the cam with and I was worried about the thickness. But that was after you broke the cap. Reading further and seeing other things I'm not sure if it was the cause for breakage or not.

StreetRod. I was not confident with what you used either but again I think I was too late to comment. But it worked so I never gave you my opinion.

Before I explain. I am not a mechanic or engineer. My father was a machinist for the air force,(I know little about machining too) this is what I understand from his advise.
I don't believe that the type of plastic either of you used (guessing) had enough give in it, I did think it was a too thick.
I used a piece of PET soda bottle plastic due to its lack of thickness and amount of give or ability to be crushed without shattering. I had my doubts it would hold enough to do the job. But as my father explained and Bobwiersema will attest to this I'm sure. Exceed the tolerance of the cam bearing (we all now know to be between .002 and .004) the cam will not turn.As you know this is not much at all.This is the very same reason why you can't use another cap.

I feel a little guilty for providing the method without the explanation my father gave me as to why it would work and how.

 

[2000StreetRod]

Cam plastic spacer

Thank you McSlug for taking the time to explain the reasons for using the soda bottle material as a spacer. I was probably more concerned about the curvature of the spacer than the thickness. This was a mistake because the plastic will easily conform to the diameter of the camshaft bearing. We don't drink sodas at our house so I don't know their thickness. I measured the thickness of the pill bottle with a micrometer to be 0.030 inches before use and 0.028 inches after. As you point out that is considerably thicker than needed but I don't think it's the reason that Cliff's cap broke. I think it was due to the cam being out of position and the cap bound when tightened. A much safer process is to only remove one cap at a time, insert the plastic and then loosely tighten preventing the camshaft from achieving an angle to the journals. However, in the future I will use thinner and more pliable plastic.

 

[McSlug]

Thank you McSlug for taking the time to explain the reasons for using the soda bottle material as a spacer. I was probably more concerned about the curvature of the spacer than the thickness. This was a mistake because the plastic will easily conform to the diameter of the camshaft bearing. We don't drink sodas at our house so I don't know their thickness. I measured the thickness of the pill bottle with a micrometer to be 0.030 inches before use and 0.028 inches after. As you point out that is considerably thicker than needed but I don't think it's the reason that Cliff's cap broke. I think it was due to the cam being out of position and the cap bound when tightened. A much safer process is to only remove one cap at a time, insert the plastic and then loosely tighten preventing the camshaft from achieving an angle to the journals. However, in the future I will use thinner and more pliable plastic.

No worries mate.
You've been a great help and source of encouragement to me and many others here.
Are you sure about just removing the one cap? That is what I did.
But in hindsight I thought loosening all the caps lightly in sequence then removing one and torquing them down to specs in sequence might be better.

When I did mine I used one on the right cam but I wanted two on the left because I was worried about slippage when tightening the jackshaft. My father assured me one was enough.
I didn't know he put two on. After he went home I kept on working, put everything together, removed one piece of plastic from the cam. Then could not work out how I had managed to seize the engine. I could not turn it at all. Not a millimeter either way. I loosened the cam bearings and it turned. So I thought I had torqued the caps too much. I must have re-torqued those things five or more times. Before I worked it out. I even thought my tension wrench was faulty.

Now after a short think> You are right remove one cap. or the valve spring pressure will lift the cam. Yes?
P.S Sorry CJ for hijacking your thread.

 

[cjmedina]

Cam was not seated squarely

Not a problem McSlug.

I blame the cap breaking as my fault!

I didn't check to see if the cam was sitting squarely front to back.

I think for some reason by loosening all the caps at ounce the front must of lifted slightly and this could of been helped but the fact that the last rocker was laying in the head. "MAYBE THE NUT WAS WEDGED BETWEEN THE VALVE AT THAT POINT CAUSING THE ROCKER TO FALL OUT"???

I didn't even torque the bolts more then 25 in lb's when it cracked. Another reason as Dale pointed out is that even though I tried to be careful the cap may of been binding on one side, but I think it was that the cam was not seated all they way down on the stanchion.

I think by hindsight that making sure the bottle strips are slightly less then needed to go across the curvature AND by installing and then torquing the caps in the uninstall sequence would eliminate the possibility of this happening.

Cliff

 

[McSlug]

That mystery nut looks like it's for the heater hose where it bolts to the firewall.
I just had a quick look and I'm 99% sure. On my vehicle RHD it is directly above the valve cover
Now I'm 100% sure just put an 11mm socket on it

 

[cjmedina]

How to get rusted bolts out?

I've tried every which way to try and turn these bolts out before and after I removed these manifolds. I had to cut them. Now it's time find a way to get the metal out and clean the threads. IF I CAN!

Any Ideas?

 

[janolsson]

HI cliff
If you have enough thread to put two nuts on then do so and lock them together. Then on the other side of the flange angle grind any of the bolt sticking thro down to the level of the flange. This will then heat the bolt some and loosen some of the corrosion. Then shock loosen with impact wrench or ring spanner and 4lb hammer.
I was lucky and didn't need to do this on mine but have used this method on othe projects.
Hope that helps