Nail in tire question

[koda2000]

I’ve never used cement on a plug, and don’t think I’ve ever had one leak, even with thin skinned ATV tires I raced on, including jumping 30-40ft doubles.

The idea of the cement is not to hold the plug in (though it my act as a bit of a lubricant when inserting it). The cement is to seal water/moisture out of the tire's cords/belts.

 

[Mbrooks420]

If it holds the air in, I assume it keeps the water out. It’s probably less of an issue for me since I don’t ever keep tires very long. 2 years for me is a great run for tires.

 

[imp]

The idea of the cement is not to hold the plug in (though it my act as a bit of a lubricant when inserting it). The cement is to seal water/moisture out of the tire's cords/belts.

@koda2000
Occasionally, a plugs is torn in two while inserting it, if the size difference is great between the puncture wound and the plug cross-section. The cement definitely aids in reducing rubber to rubber friction, but even so, I've had one break even with cement.

Another thought came to me. Steel-belted tires sometimes have a strand or two of wire torn in the puncturing process. Such torn ends have been known to destroy a plug in use.

BTW, I have a slight problem with this: "The cement is to seal water/moisture out of the tire's cords/belts." If this is so, what seals moisture/water (or anything else) out of the puncture in the caseswhere the tire is removed from the rim, and a patch applied inside of it? imp

 

[Indispensable Explorer]

BTW, I have a slight problem with this: "The cement is to seal water/moisture out of the tire's cords/belts." If this is so, what seals moisture/water (or anything else) out of the puncture in the caseswhere the tire is removed from the rim, and a patch applied inside of it?

Patch repairs still use a plug and cement.

 

[imp]

Patch repairs still use a plug and cement.

@Indispensable Explorer
I have never heard of use of a plug and patch both. If it were done, the plug would have to be inserted first, then that portion of it protruding inside of the tire would need to be carefully removed before the patch was applied. Not a bad idea, though but I've never seen it done. imp

 

[Mbrooks420]

@Indispensable Explorer
I have never heard of use of a plug and patch both. If it were done, the plug would have to be inserted first, then that portion of it protruding inside of the tire would need to be carefully removed before the patch was applied. Not a bad idea, though but I've never seen it done. imp

I think he’s referring to the patches that have a plug attached to them?

 

[imp]

I think he’s referring to the patches that have a plug attached to them?

@Mbrooks420
Now that's also a new one on me! Got a brand name,or picture? imp

 

[Mbrooks420]

Patch and Plug Combo Lead-Wire 1/8 Inch

 

[shucker1]

I absolutely agree, but wonder.....who the hell is out there shaving down tires for a living?

We had one of those tire shaving machines back in the Western Auto Days.

What a disaster....

Most of the guys didn't know how to set it up right. After running a tire they would end up with a GIANT pile of rubber dust and a bald tire....

That machine didn't last long around the shop....

 

[imp]

Patch and Plug Combo Lead-Wire 1/8 Inch

@Mbrooks420
I stand corrected and amazed! Thank you. Obviously, coming from the "dark ages" of automotive lore, I am not up on recent stuff! imp

 

[imp]

We had one of those tire shaving machines back in the Western Auto Days.

What a disaster....

Most of the guys didn't know how to set it up right. After running a tire they would end up with a GIANT pile of rubber dust and a bald tire....

That machine didn't last long around the shop....

@shucker1
My Grandpa worked for Firestone in Chicago for many years. He ran a machine which abraded the big truck tires so they could be re-treaded. He worked like a dog........a real sweathouse.

Glad to hear from you. Thought I had scared or driven you off with my last tainted and rude remark......imp

 

[delexploder]

That's what i was referring to in my earlier post , those plug patches have been around at least 25 years , thats how long ago i saw them for the first time , they work really well

 

[shucker1]

Thought I had scared or driven you off with my last tainted and rude remark......imp

Nah.

 

[Mbrooks420]

@Mbrooks420
I stand corrected and amazed! Thank you. Obviously, coming from the "dark ages" of automotive lore, I am not up on recent stuff! imp

I heard them mentioned here. I’ve never seen or used them myself.

 

[Austin Healey]

Re slightly different size diameters on rear axle: That shouldn't cause any harm -- to the transfer case or anything else.

The wheel with the smaller tire will rotate a bit faster than the larger one. But wheels rotate at different speeds all the time -- in a turn, the outside tire has to rotate faster than the inside tire because it's covering a longer distance. That's why God invented the differential.

Note that "space saver" spare tires are considerably smaller than the full-sized ones, and can be safely used on either front or rear axles. Many years ago, a guy drove the "One Lap of America" race using a space saver on one wheel, just to show it could be done.

I also agree re plug and patch, but definitely put the repaired tire on a rear wheel. In the (unlikely) event that the repair fails, you'll still have full steering control. Also, different sized tires on the front wouldn't cause differential problems, but could affect steering/handling somewhat.

 

[Mbrooks420]

I’d much rather have the failed tire on the front.

Different sized tires on the rear will beat up the limited slip, if you have one.

Onèsiphore Pecqueur invented the differential.

 

[CDW6212R]

Re slightly different size diameters on rear axle: That shouldn't cause any harm -- to the transfer case or anything else.

The wheel with the smaller tire will rotate a bit faster than the larger one. But wheels rotate at different speeds all the time -- in a turn, the outside tire has to rotate faster than the inside tire because it's covering a longer distance. That's why God invented the differential.

Note that "space saver" spare tires are considerably smaller than the full-sized ones, and can be safely used on either front or rear axles. Many years ago, a guy drove the "One Lap of America" race using a space saver on one wheel, just to show it could be done.

I also agree re plug and patch, but definitely put the repaired tire on a rear wheel. In the (unlikely) event that the repair fails, you'll still have full steering control. Also, different sized tires on the front wouldn't cause differential problems, but could affect steering/handling somewhat.

Different sized front/rear tires will wear out(destroy) the AWD transfer cases. They are made to resist different drive shaft speeds, by increasing forces(wear) inside the viscous clutch. It won't ruin one in a mile, or a few, but don't push your luck. You can feel the binding of the AWD and drive shafts, axles, the whole set of parts, with one tire not close to the same size as others. A space saver tire is far different in size, those will kill an AWD very fast. Don't do it, the cost and labor of an AWD TC is much more than a set of new tires.

 

[imp]

Different sized front/rear tires will wear out(destroy) the AWD transfer cases. They are made to resist different drive shaft speeds, by increasing forces(wear) inside the viscous clutch. It won't ruin one in a mile, or a few, but don't push your luck. You can feel the binding of the AWD and drive shafts, axles, the whole set of parts, with one tire not close to the same size as others. A space saver tire is far different in size, those will kill an AWD very fast. Don't do it, the cost and labor of an AWD TC is much more than a set of new tires.

@CDW6212R
This discussion got me thinking, what the hell is the REAL difference in size between the car's tires and a Mexican spare: went out and measured them!

'94 carries the baby spare in trunk: 23 inches diameter. Car's tires 24 1/2", difference of 6%. Is that a lot? Comparatively, yes. Let's say the car can turn a "tight" turn of 40 feet diameter. If the "track" is 60" (I measured it), the inner wheel is turning 33% SLOWER than the outer wheel! A hell of a big difference! But, we don't drive tight circles for a long time, or that often. Still, parking lot maneuvering often involves "lock to lock" steering.

So: "Different sized front/rear tires will wear out(destroy) the AWD transfer cases." I believe the viscous clutch feeds torque to ONLY the front wheels, hence the "bias" effect between front and rear: the difference is used up as heat. So, different sized tires on EITHER rear or front, but not both, have no effect on the clutch. The front & rear differentials take care of different wheel speeds, hard on limited-slip, clutch-type differentials, no problem at all for Torsen or True-Trac. Now how about somebody figuring out what happens if I put a 6% smaller tire on BOTH front and rear, with AWD using the viscous clutch? imp

 

[CDW6212R]

I think you've worded that wrong. If the tires were mismatched equally front to back, the two drive shafts would be running at the same speed. That wouldn't bother the AWD. Having just one tire sized wrong at either end makes the drive shafts run at different speeds, and the viscous clutch fights that. I never bought the 65/35 power variable garbage, the VC isn't sophisticated enough to do anything like that.

I just received a new viscous clutch last week, so I can rebuild my currently locked up AWD TC. The VC is actually very small, the size of any small clutch drum of an automatic trans. It weighs over 10lbs, I think it's a simple device which just resists very strongly any change in the two speeds(front and rear). An LS differential will wear out any clutches it has if a small spare is used, but that won't disable the diff. The VC can't take excessive speed differentiation for long. My 98 had black fluid when I got it at 159k, changed three times and it's always been too dark. Now it's locked up, it ruined my front differential last month. So I'll get it out in the next month or so and see what other damage might be in there. The VC is a sealed unit, when it leaks the TC fluid becomes black.

 

[Mbrooks420]

The viscous coupling is fairly sensitive. I can tell if I have a low tire by the way it sounds.