Neutral Safety Bypassed / Start Button Added / Previous Owner Funky - HELP

[50guy]

Trying to figure out what a previous owner did with my '99 5.0. Couple weird things going on, I thought I had figured out and it was just a bypassed bad neutral safety switch, but I'm missing something.

First, the truck has a push button start that has been added. The key still needs to be in the ignition and all the way turned (before crank to start) - you hit the push button, and vroom...she fires right up.

Second, the truck will not start turning the key alone. Turning the key to start does nothing. Push button has to be used.
Also, the truck will start in any gear.

So, my thinking was, the previous owner just bypassed the neutral safety switch to be cheap and get going.

So, today, I put in a new neutral safety switch thinking I could lose the push button start, but it didn't work.

The push button is hot wired to battery + on one end and the other is tied into the yellow/blue stripe wire that is under the master cylinder.

What the heck did they do? Any ideas? I would love to ditch this push button hack, have a working neutral safety switch, and start with the key.

 

[tripog]

just trace the wires from the push to start button back, chances are theres an extra relay that triggers the starter when the button is pushed. or if they were cheap they just cut the wire from the lock cylinder and wired in the button in its place. the starter circuit is pretty simple and if they didnt bypass security and the key it should be pretty easy to spot whats wrong.

heres is a basic diagram for common push to start installations that still require the key.

 

[Mbrooks420]

I’d bet the ignition switch was just bad. What they’ve done to the factory wiring is anyone’s guess. I’d trace out all the added wiring and try and remove it.

 

[50guy]

The only extra wiring is the aftermarket push button start. 12+ to battery and other tied into that yellow/blue stripe wire.

Seems weird that a bad ignition switch would cause it to start in gear too. I'm going to order a new switch though and then I can inspect if they cut any wires by the ignition, but I didn't see anything out of order there, when I removed the cover under the steering column to take a peek.

 

[Mbrooks420]

Does the yellow/blue wire being powered it out the need for the neutral safety switch? That’s the only way I can see it making the neutral safety switch Null.

 

[50guy]

I'm not sure I totally understand your question. But with the new neutral safety switch installed, I undid the yellow/blue wire and it would not start with the factory ignition and key.

 

[Mbrooks420]

I assume this is because the ignition switch is bad, which is why they installed the push button start in the first place. If the push button powers directly from 12vdc to the starter relay coil it would probably cut the neutral safety switch out of the circuit.

 

[50guy]

Cool. 10-4. I'll have a spare neutral safety switch now. I'll report back after I swap out the ignition switch. Thank you!

I assume this is because the ignition switch is bad, which is why they installed the push button start in the first place. If the push button powers directly from 12vdc to the starter relay coil it would probably cut the neutral safety switch out of the circuit.

 

[50guy]

Swapping the relay with a good one didn't do it. Looks like I'm chasing wires next.

 

[Turdle]

these should help you
I would double check your wiring before replacing anything, it would kind of suck buying and replacing the lock cylinder needing to get new keys/program them and find out it still wont start with the key, not to mention then your door keys will be different too. you may have to replace it but i would rather track down a cut wire than deal with two different keys.

This issue will not involve the ignition lock and keys, rather, the ignition switch which is moved by the ignition lock. it is inside the steering column. The ignition lock has a cam on the end which pushes a sliding rod to actuate the ignition switch.

Ignition "switch" and ignition "lock" are 2 different animals.


looks like this

 

[tripog]

This issue will not involve the ignition lock and keys, rather, the ignition switch which is moved by the ignition lock. it is inside the steering column. The ignition lock has a cam on the end which pushes a sliding rod to actuate the ignition switch.

Ignition "switch" and ignition "lock" are 2 different animals.


looks like this

Ah yeah I misread this thread but either way point still stands, you shouldn't blindly replace parts. If someone cut into the wiring as half ass as he explained they probably screwed something up, maybe they didn't and maybe they did for some reason go through the trouble of wiring the button in instead of replacing a faulty switch but who knows. The main point is if things were tested before hand he wouldn't of bought the neutral safety switch that wasn't needed.

 

[50guy]

I shouldn't have replaced a neutral safety switch without checking the relay first, but that was my dumb move. I'm not seeing the forest through the trees with this one right now and I'm missing something simple.

When I check voltage at the battery junction box for the starter relay (with vehicle off). I have 12+ at terminal 30 and - ground at 87 and 86.
A normal Bosch relay will be - on 85. What am I missing here? The starter is always grounded to block, but again, I'm chasing my tail with something simple here. Help!

Should I be looking to the ignition switch wiring at this point? Nothing looks hacked into by the battery junction fuse box.

 

[tripog]

I shouldn't have replaced a neutral safety switch without checking the relay first, but that was my dumb move. I'm not seeing the forest through the trees with this one right now and I'm missing something simple.

When I check voltage at the battery junction box for the starter relay (with vehicle off). I have 12+ at terminal 30 and - ground at 87 and 86.
A normal Bosch relay will be - on 85. What am I missing here? The starter is always grounded to block, but again, I'm chasing my tail with something simple here. Help!

Should I be looking to the ignition switch wiring at this point? Nothing looks hacked into by the battery junction fuse box.

i didnt realize posting pictures on here reduced the resolution so im having a hard time reading the picture i posted and i cant look at the original right now but you should check to see if at the relay you get voltage when trying to start the vehicle with the key at what i think is terminal 85.
if you dont get voltage there yeah i would hop to testing the switch. I was just hoping it was something dumb like they cut the wire when trying to splice in that push button start and you could save some money.

 

[50guy]

Unless I'm getting a bad connection, I'm not getting juice at 85 at start. Going to get the test light out and start checking the switch connections at start.

 

[tripog]

Unless I'm getting a bad connection, I'm not getting juice at 85 at start. Going to get the test light out and start checking the switch connections at start.

That's too bad, but at least you're figuring it out

 

[donalds]

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog...l-switch+&+relay,ignition+starter+switch,4700

 

[Turdle]

Ok, it is possible the ignition lock turns enough to engage the "on, but not bump the internal rod further to the spring action "start" inside the switch. Thread below shows how to remove the lock easily if you have a key

1996 Ignition Lock Cylinder replace

and it happened in our truck. ( thread below) You might just install the key, turn to on, then look up in the column for a hole. Stick a wire up into the hole to depress the lock ball and see if your lock is broken.

How to: - Ignition Switch broken, How to fix lock to use original keys

^^ instructions and part number for lock you can key yourself to your keys if needed.

 

[50guy]

I don’t think it’s the ignition switch, I get power at my test light on fuse 24 when cranking.
My reverse lights work so I’m sure the NSS is set correctly. What the DTR? Think it is either this or something with the clutch pedal switch and wiring between ignition switch and the relay pigtail.

 

[tripog]

I don’t think it’s the ignition switch, I get power at my test light on fuse 24 when cranking.
My reverse lights work so I’m sure the NSS is set correctly. What the DTR? Think it is either this or something with the clutch pedal switch and wiring between ignswitch and the relay pigtail.

Basically your park neutral switch
Your clutch pedal? Is yours a standard?

Either way you have the wiring diagram so just continue down the path until you lose voltage and then back track with continuity tests till you find one open.
Check the pink wire at the park safety switch and see if there's voltage there. If there is voltage there check the tan red wire leaving the park safety switch going to the starter relay if it's there and not at pin 85 on the relay measure the continuity of the wire. And so on so forth. And obviously make sure the fuse is good.

 

[50guy]

Found a hacked wire between #24 and the Battery Junction relay. She lives! Thanks for all the help and the wiring diagram. That was huge!