Recommendations on new subwoofers

[2kv8]

The time to replace my JL Audio 12w3 subs is getting near. The foam surrounds are starting to crack from the years of use. And being 13 years old I think thats pretty good that they held up this long. Anyway I can't decide which direction to go on purchasing new subs. I know what I do want is a decent sub that sounds best in a slot ported enclosure and I am not looking to spend more than $400 for both subs. If memory serves me right the enclosure is 1.5 to 1.75 cu. for each sub. Right now I have an MTX 251D mono block amp running the JL's and they sound great. The amp puts out about 250 to 300 watts max. I am going to use this amp to run the new subs. I have looked at Kicker, MTX, JBL, JL, RE, Polk, Fosgate and Kenwood. Any input would be great.

 

[2kv8]

Here are a couple of subs I think would work pretty well for me.
Kicker Comp VR http://www.crutchfield.com/p_2067C12...22.html?tp=111
JL 12w1 http://www.crutchfield.com/p_13612W1...-4.html?tp=111

Right now I am leaning toward the Comp VR 12 because it's buy one get one free, they offer a dual 2 ohm voice coil like I have right now with the old JL's and the recommended air space for a vented enclosure is 1.75 to 2.25 cubes per sub. The box I have right now is 1.75 cubes or maybe a little bigger per sub.

Anyone have or had experience with the comp vr subs. I had an old Kicker comp in my car when I was back in high school and I loved it.

 

[2kv8]

Here are a couple of subs I think would work pretty well for me.
Kicker Comp VR http://www.crutchfield.com/p_2067C12VR2/Kicker-CompVR-07CVR122.html?tp=111
JL 12w1 http://www.crutchfield.com/p_13612W1V24/JL-Audio-12W1v2-4.html?tp=111
Right now I am leaning toward the Comp VR 12 because it's buy one get one free, they offer a dual 2 ohm voice coil like I have right now with the old JL's and the recommended air space for a vented enclosure is 1.75 to 2.25 cubes per sub. The box I have right now is 1.75 cubes or maybe a little bigger per sub.

Anyone have or had experience with the comp vr subs. I had an old Kicker comp in my car when I was back in high school and I loved it.

 

[PandorasCustoms]

The VR subs are pretty slick. I persoanlly have always suggested and gone with Kicker equipment.
Granted when ported, most of their subs are designed for SPL and when sealed they are for SQ.

Depending on what you are looking for, you could get some good BOOM out of them.

 

[jschatz]

I had a pair in my old blazer and was happy with them. Not as happy with the tens I have in my truck now.

 

[bilbo99]

Take a good look at Image and Arc Audio subs. The IDQ is a very formidable SQL sub. The Arc version I believe is still very close to the IDQ. Someone correct me if I am out of date on that.

http://www.imagedynamicsusa.com/products.php?Family_Id=3

Another option is Elemental Designs. They make a whole array of subs.

http://www.edesignaudio.com/index.php?cPath=1_21

 

[2kv8]

Well I went ahead and bought the Kicker Comp VR subs. I couldn't pass up the price so I guess I'll see how they sound when I get them in. Plus this summer I think I am going to redo my sub box and amp rack so I will build the box to suit the Kickers. I'll get some pics up when I do.

 

[bilbo99]

Let us know on how they redesigned CompVR's sound. Would love to have a 15" or 2 12's and I plan on doing so. Just picked up an Alpine MRP-M1000 (600x1@4ohm,1000x1@2ohm) and I plan to try a A/B system where my Elemental Designs E10O SQ sub stuffed into a q-logic stealth box in factory location and can handle 600 watts @ its wired 4ohms can be run most of the time to please the "Better Half" who is bass intolerant. On the times when I am going my own way, traveling to a family members house alone (I have 5 brothers) I can hoist some bigger, less confined subwoofer, probably ported, so I can bang my way to my destination. Of course the stealth sub would be off. I need to work out the switching. Will probably look to Parts Express for some hardware for the manual disconnect and connect. When I am done partying on wheels I can unload the beast and "switch back" or "re-connect" the Elemental sub in some semi elegant way.

Like my earlier post suggested, I am an fan of Image or Arc sub but if the Comp VR has some musicality to it then I will reconsider. Kicker's last Comp VR was let "musical" and didn't bring out the complex bass structures in a lot of songs. The older VR "got it on" and banged pretty well but just was just more of a thumper than the Image IDQ. Let me know if the version is more able to be "musical". I know that sounds like BS or magic pixey dust but I a/b'd the older VR vs an Image IDQ and the Image hit just as hard but displayed much more tonal quality. It was able to quickly jump between low frequency notes with ease, The Comp VR, in this comparison, came across as an SPL sub and when thrown a more musical low frequency passage it got a bit muddy. That was just my opinion and I don't have golder ears.

If you don't mind, let us know where ya got them and how much you paid.

Did you see and/or consider the Comp VX, that I just noticed on WoofersEtc, that would be a good sub to hear about. Sounds like a beefier, more vigorous CompVR but at a price more like the IDQ. Maybe the CompVR is more is the Image ID class. Both great subs.

Sorry, not trying to thread jack you. Really want your opinion of these. The W3 was in the IDQ class so your comparison to the W3's you ran to the new CompVR will be really interesting. Congrats on your new subs.

Bilbo

Well I went ahead and bought the Kicker Comp VR subs. I couldn't pass up the price so I guess I'll see how they sound when I get them in. Plus this summer I think I am going to redo my sub box and amp rack so I will build the box to suit the Kickers. I'll get some pics up when I do.

 

[PandorasCustoms]

Good to hear.
You never really mentioned what kind of sound you are going for. SPL or SQ?
You got 2 - 12s correct?

Any reason why you went Dual 2 Ohm VC?
I guess it is to run a 2 Ohm load to the AMP?

 

[PandorasCustoms]

Did you see and/or consider the Comp VX, that I just noticed on WoofersEtc, that would be a good sub to hear about. Sounds like a beefier, more vigorous CompVR but at a price more like the IDQ.

The CVX is going to be an SPL type of sub. It is supposed to have the eqivalent of the L7 square speaker, but it is going to be used in the round features. The 2010 model has really been beefed up this time around. The only real benefit to it, is that with the square subs, you pretty much have to maintain RMS power ALL the time in order maintain SQ or the appropriate SPL. With the rounded off subs, a watt drop will not have such a detrimental effect on the sound.

 

[2kv8]

Good to hear.
You never really mentioned what kind of sound you are going for. SPL or SQ?
You got 2 - 12s correct?

Any reason why you went Dual 2 Ohm VC?
I guess it is to run a 2 Ohm load to the AMP?

Basically I would like a little of both. Yes I order 2 12's. If I remember correctly the sub box I currently have for the JL's is tuned to about 32HZ. And you are correct about the 2 ohm load. I have a mono block MTX amp that is running DVC 2 ohm JL's now and it works very well. The Kickers can handle up to 800 watts max and 50-400 rms so I have the option later to upgrade my amp to a bigger power one.

If you don't mind, let us know where ya got them and how much you paid.

Did you see and/or consider the Comp VX, that I just noticed on WoofersEtc, that would be a good sub to hear about. Sounds like a beefier, more vigorous CompVR but at a price more like the IDQ. Maybe the CompVR is more is the Image ID class. Both great subs.

Sorry, not trying to thread jack you. Really want your opinion of these. The W3 was in the IDQ class so your comparison to the W3's you ran to the new CompVR will be really interesting. Congrats on your new subs.

Bilbo

I bought the subs from crutchfield.com and paid $149.99 shipped for both because it was buy one get one free.

I did look at the VX but the reasons I stayed with the VR is 1; because of the price (I had to budget myself) and 2; the VX seemed to be a bit of overkill for my setup meaning the VX takes 750 watts rms and 1500 watts max where the VR takes 50-400 watts rms and 800 watts max to run efficiently.

To answer the question about going from the W3's to the Comp VR is this, the W3's I have right now were bought my Junior year of high school back in '96 making them 14 years old and the W3 subs from 14 years ago is a bit different from the current 2010 models. I don't need a sub that can handle 1000 watts when in reality I am not going to be putting anything close to that on the speaker. Right now the amp puts out about 300 watts max and 150 to 200 rms.

 

[PandorasCustoms]

At 32hz, it is going to be tough getting a TON of boom with only 100 watts per Speaker. Not to be rude, but you may have been better with the regualr COMPS. The CVR should be pushed to the full 300watt RMS when ported at 1.75 cu' enclosure.

Check out the tech Specs on Page #3

Is the amp 1 channel at 150watts RMS? Because that seems like some incredibly tiny amp (I didn't even know you could buy a monoblock that small). Not trying to be a basher, but trying to see if I can help.
I think most times when you under power a ported enclosure it doesn't work out right. I don't have enough experience with them, as I have always preferred sealed, especially in custom locations, and have only done maybe 10 or so ported boxes. All pushing beyond the actual RMS rating of the speaker.

 

[2kv8]

At 32hz, it is going to be tough getting a TON of boom with only 100 watts per Speaker. Not to be rude, but you may have been better with the regualr COMPS. The CVR should be pushed to the full 300watt RMS when ported at 1.75 cu' enclosure.

Check out the tech Specs on Page #3

Is the amp 1 channel at 150watts RMS? Because that seems like some incredibly tiny amp (I didn't even know you could buy a monoblock that small). Not trying to be a basher, but trying to see if I can help.
I think most times when you under power a ported enclosure it doesn't work out right. I don't have enough experience with them, as I have always preferred sealed, especially in custom locations, and have only done maybe 10 or so ported boxes. All pushing beyond the actual RMS rating of the speaker.

The subs in there now are rated the same as the Kickers. Like I said I am going to be redoing the box some time soon and I am going to replace the amp later on when funds allow me to. The amp is an MTX 251d mono block http://www.lightav.com/car/mtx/ampd2003.html. I now it doesn't sound like alot of power but trust me this is a pretty powerful amp for its size and it pushes the JL's just fine. I talk to a tech a crutchfield about what I was going to use and the type of box they are going in and he said I should get the same sound from the Kickers as I do with the JL's. I do know that subs in a ported box generally take less power to run the subs effectively than it does in a sealed box. With a sealed box it takes more power to control the cone due to the pressure from inside the box pushing on the back of the woofer. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[PandorasCustoms]

Yeah, the old MTX amps were some of the better ones. I have no doubt that it will play and sound nice. I am sorry if I came off as "scratchy", but just trying to help. One thing I have always hated about car audio, is you can have two speakers with almost identical makeups and they can sound a lot different.
You will certainly have to let me know how it goes.

Also, do you know what voltage your alternator generally runs at?
B/c if it is at the 14.4v, then 250RMS should be fine.

 

[2kv8]

Yeah, the old MTX amps were some of the better ones. I have no doubt that it will play and sound nice. I am sorry if I came off as "scratchy", but just trying to help. One thing I have always hated about car audio, is you can have two speakers with almost identical makeups and they can sound a lot different.
You will certainly have to let me know how it goes.

Also, do you know what voltage your alternator generally runs at?
B/c if it is at the 14.4v, then 250RMS should be fine.

As a matter of fact I just happen to an a volt meter to the center console so I could keep an eye on it while driving and the meter says 14.4 although I have seen it drop to 13.9 at night with the headlights on.

I was looking at a few amps made by JBL and I think I may have found a couple of possible replacements. The reason for JBL is that I have a JBL Grand Touring 4 channel running my mids and highs and would like to get a mono block to match for appearance purposes when I redo the box/amp rack. Anyway here are the possible replacements. Let me know what you think of them.

This one matches my 4 channel perfectly.http://www.woofersetc.com/p235/GTO6011II--JBL-600-Watt-Mono-Amplifier.htm

And this one. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330409367057&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT

 

[PandorasCustoms]

That GTO601.1 is a good match for your setup.
It allows for you run both right near that 300 RMS range.
That should give you plenty of boom. And, it is a class D amp, so the AMPerage draw is a little less per watt than the Class A/B amps.

I would personally avoid that other Ebay auction like the Plaugue. It is listed as refurbished, and you only get a 14day window to exchange it. I have never trusted used electronics. They are just a gamble. Because anything could fry at any time depending on how the previous user had it. Yeah, it is factory reworked but if two parts in it were close to failing, and only one did, the "factory" is only going to swap the bad part. Leaving you with a newly repaired about to fail unit.

If you are willing to break away from a JBL amp, I know an online retailer who sells soundstream at a great price.
STL1.600D

That AMP there would be perfect for those two speakers. I personally have loved Soundstream's products, and the seller is great. Really good guy to work with. I have ordered several things from him in the past, and I actually picked up my PCX-1000D from him too. He also offers warranties on all of the purchases. Most are as long as, if not longer than the standard manufacturer's warranty. (2 years for that amplifier in the link)

Plus it is almost $100 cheaper than that JBL on the Woofersetc site...

 

[2kv8]

That GTO601.1 is a good match for your setup.
It allows for you run both right near that 300 RMS range.
That should give you plenty of boom. And, it is a class D amp, so the AMPerage draw is a little less per watt than the Class A/B amps.

I would personally avoid that other Ebay auction like the Plaugue. It is listed as refurbished, and you only get a 14day window to exchange it. I have never trusted used electronics. They are just a gamble. Because anything could fry at any time depending on how the previous user had it. Yeah, it is factory reworked but if two parts in it were close to failing, and only one did, the "factory" is only going to swap the bad part. Leaving you with a newly repaired about to fail unit.

If you are willing to break away from a JBL amp, I know an online retailer who sells soundstream at a great price.
STL1.600D

That AMP there would be perfect for those two speakers. I personally have loved Soundstream's products, and the seller is great. Really good guy to work with. I have ordered several things from him in the past, and I actually picked up my PCX-1000D from him too. He also offers warranties on all of the purchases. Most are as long as, if not longer than the standard manufacturer's warranty. (2 years for that amplifier in the link)

Plus it is almost $100 cheaper than that JBL on the Woofersetc site...

Thanks. That amp looks pretty good to me. I like it better than the JBL by far. I may go with that one. I just wanted the JBL to match my 4 channel.

BTW, would you or anyone be able to design a ported (dual or single ports) box for the Comp VR subs? The only reason I have the box that is in there now is because I called JL and had them email me build specs for that particular sub. I am not really sure how to figure every thing up and don't want to waste a day building a box only for it to sound like a limp d*** hitting a snare drum.

Here is what kicker sent me when I asked them to give me some specs on a box for 2 12" VR's. http://www.kicker.com/sites/default/files/CompVRTechManual.pdf

They said they don't have the software to design a dual sub enclosure for me. Enclosure specs for 1 12" starts on page 25.

 

[PandorasCustoms]

Well, I would love to help, but would actually like to take a step back from this one. I could help with some measurements and ideas, but without actually being there, it is tough to make a design. All of mine have been custom built and hence have never really been the cookie cutter square style. I always use the space that would otherwise be wasted by molding the boxes to fit around wheel wells and angles right against seats.

And, since my XP is a 1st gen, I wouldn't be able to get the exact same measurement styles as you would need.

Actually, Ima send you a PM regarding this now...

 

[PandorasCustoms]

Well, now I am kind of putting my foot in my mouth. I almost turned down a fellow XP owner in need of help.

I went ahead re-read the data again on the Kicker Tech sheet (I was just scanning through it the first time), and if you are going to use a design from their sheet. Then, you want to build one almost identical to Page# 25.

Box Internal VB = 1.75 cu'
Port VB = .38 cu'
Tuning Freq = 40hz
(Note, as it says on the tech sheet, you will want the Subsonic Filter set to 25hz for this to work at full power)

Now, it doesn't have to be all the same dimensions, you just essentially need to make sure that the cu' of the Box and the cu' of the port remain the same in any of the designs you make. And, one thing I have always done, is keep the inside opening of the port furthest away from the woofer as possible.

Now, I sent you a PM, and if you want to, I have no problem trying to help you with a little creative designing.

 

[2kv8]

Well, now I am kind of putting my foot in my mouth. I almost turned down a fellow XP owner in need of help.

I went ahead re-read the data again on the Kicker Tech sheet (I was just scanning through it the first time), and if you are going to use a design from their sheet. Then, you want to build one almost identical to Page# 25.

Box Internal VB = 1.75 cu'
Port VB = .38 cu'
Tuning Freq = 40hz
(Note, as it says on the tech sheet, you will want the Subsonic Filter set to 25hz for this to work at full power)

Now, it doesn't have to be all the same dimensions, you just essentially need to make sure that the cu' of the Box and the cu' of the port remain the same in any of the designs you make. And, one thing I have always done, is keep the inside opening of the port furthest away from the woofer as possible.

Now, I sent you a PM, and if you want to, I have no problem trying to help you with a little creative designing.

Awesome, I really appreciate the help.