Replacing steel brake lines

[96eb96]

Yes, I am replacing all brake (hard lines). All lines are rusted but some are in better shape then others. Regardless, the entire hydraulic brake system was flagged in MD inspection to replace.



The lines and fittings from the ABS closer to the hood and master cylinder are in good shape. Once they go below the master cylinder they are rusted ( and what was flagged in inspection.) So I will have to remove the lines to the ABS as well.

Will this introduce air to the system regardless of keeping the reservoir filled? Confused. There is 1 line from the ABS control module direct to the master cylinder. Then 4 go down towards the left caliper and spread out from there.

I was going to bleed and replace one section at a time starting—rear axle, rear left/right hoses—then passenger front line, left hose, then right and hose, then 4 lines going up to ABS, then master line to ABS using a vacuum hand pump bleeder.

How can I do this without introducing air into the ABS module?

I plan on starting this weekend and don't want to damage the ABS. I did read in the Haynes the ABS warning when bleeding but only on 96 and earlier.

If you can plug the outlets at the ABS fittings as soon as you remove the line you won't get air in the ABS system. I don't know what the 98 has but you can get M10 or M12 brake fittings (I guess that is what the internal thread is??)that adapt to standard lines. You can probably fabricate some sort of plug with a short piece of line. The trick is to keep fluid in the master cyl at all times.

But again, even if the fluid runs out (which I've done many cars) you shouldn't really have an issue if you do a full bleed. You will never damage the ABS like this, in the worst case a dealer will charge you an hr of labor to rebleed the system. You can also activate the ABS a few times then rebleed if the pedal is spongy.

What would happen if it failed on the road and the system went dry? Then you couldn't prevent it.

 

[scottnh1970]

i replaced my rear brake lines because i had a bad ABS valve. but i also had a difficult time getting good flares so i cut my lines too short.

so i replaced my lines. luckly they came with their own fittings brand new but there werent the same size as the MC. so i reused the ones to the MC and joined them with a double end type

i didnt bother jacking my car up i just laid an old sleeping bag to do the job.

i am still a noob at this but it has worked. so you might just have to do more but the work is the same

i just "gravity" bled the brakes and i had to use an assortment of tools

1. ratchets

2 open wrenches and flare nut wrenches

3. PB blaster

4 MOST IMPORTANTLY! Double Flaring tool THEY MUST BE DOUBLE FLARED! i got mine at CSK for 24 USD but now i see them at HF that do double flare

anyhow if you have any questions i will try to help. i know your generation of ploder is differnet but this video might help

Great video, thanks. And thanks for the help too. I will be posting again on the progress.

 

[scottnh1970]

Ok. So I finally got the new section of steel and hoses complete on the rear. Now starting on the front which is a lot bigger job then the rear. I wanted to check the front rotors and pads since I have noticed pulsing only when I apply the brakes (and previous owner didnt know the last time a brake job was performed). So I checked and every thing looked ok. Plenty of meat left on the pads and rotors look straight and no groves. The only thing I notice was some small straight line marks on the rotor. So what else could be causing the pulsing?

 

[marragtop]

Normally the pulsation is caused due to warped rotors which you can't really see. I suggest either turning or replacing the rotors.

 

[scottnh1970]

I'll try that thanks.

 

[scottnh1970]

New dilemma. In replacing all of my lines, I now pulled off the lines to the ABS and the ends look to be some kind of bubble flare, not double. Is this correct? If the correct term is "bubble" flare, how do I make one? I have only made doubles at this point. It looks to be "bubble to the ABS unit and double to the brake line connection.

Anyone?

 

[thumper477]

Heres a trick that I was taught by an oldtimer many years ago.When you open up the brake system all the fluid will gravity bleed out of the master,the abs unit,and the lines.To prevent this unhook the battery and take a stick and jam the brake pedal down about halfway.This will block the ports in the master and no fluid will escape.Makes it much easier to bleed and you won't have brake fluid dripping in your face when working under the car.

 

[96eb96]

New dilemma. In replacing all of my lines, I now pulled off the lines to the ABS and the ends look to be some kind of bubble flare, not double. Is this correct? If the correct term is "bubble" flare, how do I make one? I have only made doubles at this point. It looks to be "bubble to the ABS unit and double to the brake line connection.

Anyone?

My 96 had all inverted flares. You may have an ISO bubble flare, you need a special tool to make those OR you can buy adapters at advance auto/Napa.etc. The trick is finding out the nut pitch and size, it is most likely 10mm or 12mm with a 1mm fine pitch thread.

example:
http://www.agscompany.com/products.php?line=4&category=10&subcat=21&product=91

http://www.agscompany.com/products.php?line=4&category=10&subcat=21&product=158

I'm guessing that you have those sizes in the ABS unit, those are the most common.

Do not force the wrong thread. Bring the fitting and make sure the threads match!!!

The other option is short lengths of brake lines sold with the correct nuts, but you need a union. If you can use the conversion nuts that is the best solution. My 96 had them from the factory.

 

[scottnh1970]

My 96 had all inverted flares. You may have an ISO bubble flare, you need a special tool to make those OR you can buy adapters at advance auto/Napa.etc. The trick is finding out the nut pitch and size, it is most likely 10mm or 12mm with a 1mm fine pitch thread.

example:
http://www.agscompany.com/products.php?line=4&category=10&subcat=21&product=91

http://www.agscompany.com/products.php?line=4&category=10&subcat=21&product=158

I'm guessing that you have those sizes in the ABS unit, those are the most common.

Do not force the wrong thread. Bring the fitting and make sure the threads match!!!

The other option is short lengths of brake lines sold with the correct nuts, but you need a union. If you can use the conversion nuts that is the best solution. My 96 had them from the factory.

I was looking for those nuts everywhere. Was going to go to the dealer or a junk yard. Thanks for the find! I did see a video about making a "bubble" flare with the double flare tool kit by reversing the holder. I may try that as well since I already cut the lines.

Any idea where I can get the 2 nuts that go into the master cylinder from the ABS? I cut those as well (may drill out the tubes in them) and reuse them but wanted new ones since they are rusty.

 

[scottnh1970]

I ended up cleaning up, polishing down and reusing the 2 master cylinder nuts since no one (including the dealer) has them. Now a new problem. The caliper bracket bolts (passenger side). I removed both rotors (after hitting them for 10 min with a hammer and PB blaster)—man they were rusted on. The drive side caliper bracket bolts came off after PB blaster and hammering the ratchet down. The passenger side I have to pull up on the ratchet to loosen and they won't budge. I noticed the driver side bolts had red lock-tight so I'm assuming the passenger does too. I have torched them, hammered on top, soaked them in PB, but still wont come off. Can I use an impact wrench or will that tear off the tops?

any help?

 

[96eb96]

I ended up cleaning up, polishing down and reusing the 2 master cylinder nuts since no one (including the dealer) has them. Now a new problem. The caliper bracket bolts (passenger side). I removed both rotors (after hitting them for 10 min with a hammer and PB blaster)—man they were rusted on. The drive side caliper bracket bolts came off after PB blaster and hammering the ratchet down. The passenger side I have to pull up on the ratchet to loosen and they won't budge. I noticed the driver side bolts had red lock-tight so I'm assuming the passenger does too. I have torched them, hammered on top, soaked them in PB, but still wont come off. Can I use an impact wrench or will that tear off the tops?

any help?

The front caliper bracket bolts are very strong and an impact wont hurt them. Either that or a very long breaker bar. I broke a good 15mm socket on those, so good luck there!

 

[scottnh1970]

The front caliper bracket bolts are very strong and an impact wont hurt them. Either that or a very long breaker bar. I broke a good 15mm socket on those, so good luck there!

Thanks for responding.
I went ahead...took the chance...heated them up once again with a torch, then held my breath and used an impact wrench. They came of after a few hits of the wrench. These bolts had the "red" lock tight on them—insane! New rotors are on now. Now running the front steel brake line to the passenger side. It's a *****! No way can't run the exact same route. Getting under the truck tonight and seeing how I'm going to bend the line on the fly—it's very tight for one long line and no space. Any tricks I can use to route it?

 

[96eb96]

Thanks for responding.
I went ahead...took the chance...heated them up once again with a torch, then held my breath and used an impact wrench. They came of after a few hits of the wrench. These bolts had the "red" lock tight on them—insane! New rotors are on now. Now running the front steel brake line to the passenger side. It's a *****! No way can't run the exact same route. Getting under the truck tonight and seeing how I'm going to bend the line on the fly—it's very tight for one long line and no space. Any tricks I can use to route it?

Forget trying to make an exact stock line, even pros wouldn't bother. Remember the factory puts it in before the engine is installed. I have sorta a straight run going from the driver side to the lower frame, it is fastened to some solid landmarks. I used a union around the lower clip to join two sections(but with a spool of line it may be possible (but hard) to make a single run). As long as the line won't chafe against anything and has some support, its fine.

The rest of the run to the wheel has to go "up and around" if I recall correctly. Try to trace the line and make a model out of wire. I suggest cutting the old line around the lower subframe clip, I don't think its possible to get it out otherwise. This is where I joined the two sections.

Now you see why shops hate this job? One shop owner told me he sometimes loses money on these jobs, because if tech never did that car he could run into a few extra hours above the estimate.

 

[scottnh1970]

Your weren't kidding. I removed the original line last weekend, but took pictures for reference. I didn't think of cutting and joining at the lower cross-member. I'd rather try and keep one line (if I can) since I have a long spool—just hard bending it without effecting (bending) other sections. If I do cut, I'm assuming I can just double flare at the union? Can I use zip-ties to anchor at varies point near the driver side? I will reuse the factor holder on the lower cross-member and near the passenger upper point.

 

[scottnh1970]

Finally finished! I was able to run one single line on the front. Lines all done! Now I'm in the bleeding process. Bled the rears no problem, now moved to the front only to find out that both front bleeders are rusted shut! I've almost stripped them after PB blaster. Can I heat them up a bit to get loose (may damage the caliper). Can I drill them out? If I have to replace, is there a way without losing all the fluid again? The rears took 2 hrs to bleed so I don't want to do it again.

 

[marragtop]

You can try bleeding the fronts where the flex line attaches to the caliper. If the calipers stayed full of fluid, that will work.

 

[scottnh1970]

You can try bleeding the fronts where the flex line attaches to the caliper. If the calipers stayed full of fluid, that will work.

I put new lines on. So I just loosen the flex nut and let the fluid bleed from there? How can I check for air bubbles that way? I've been using a hand pump and a clear tube on the bleeders for the rear.

 

[96eb96]

Finally finished! I was able to run one single line on the front. Lines all done! Now I'm in the bleeding process. Bled the rears no problem, now moved to the front only to find out that both front bleeders are rusted shut! I've almost stripped them after PB blaster. Can I heat them up a bit to get loose (may damage the caliper). Can I drill them out? If I have to replace, is there a way without losing all the fluid again? The rears took 2 hrs to bleed so I don't want to do it again.

Great that you finished. Yes you can use zip ties, I've used many along the way. You noticed that the clips are really made for the spring covered brake lines so the new lines don't exactly fit. Zip ties are perfect.

Getting off frozen bleeders is tricky. You can heat the caliper around the screw, calipers are made to take heat. I wouldn't get it red hot though. Get a tight fitting 6-point SOCKET on the bleeder (hammer it on if necessary). Do not use open end wrenches. I don't even suggest flare wrenches.

Then use an impact type motion on the ratchet. Give it some nice hits with your hand. An impact screwdriver with an attachment may work too. I either use that or a small air impact wrench on low pressure. I let it click for a minute or so. Don't use gorilla forces on the screw or it will break off.

If you replace the calipers you shouldn't have to re bleed the back. Just don't let the master run dry.

Drilling is an absolute last resort. Honestly I would replace a caliper that I had to drill out. Then again, for all the trouble you put into this job why not just buy two reman calipers? I bet its under $100 for the pair if you call around.

 

[scottnh1970]

Great that you finished. Yes you can use zip ties, I've used many along the way. You noticed that the clips are really made for the spring covered brake lines so the new lines don't exactly fit. Zip ties are perfect.

Getting off frozen bleeders is tricky. You can heat the caliper around the screw, calipers are made to take heat. I wouldn't get it red hot though. Get a tight fitting 6-point SOCKET on the bleeder (hammer it on if necessary). Do not use open end wrenches. I don't even suggest flare wrenches.

Then use an impact type motion on the ratchet. Give it some nice hits with your hand. An impact screwdriver with an attachment may work too. I either use that or a small air impact wrench on low pressure. I let it click for a minute or so. Don't use gorilla forces on the screw or it will break off.

If you replace the calipers you shouldn't have to re bleed the back. Just don't let the master run dry.

Drilling is an absolute last resort. Honestly I would replace a caliper that I had to drill out. Then again, for all the trouble you put into this job why not just buy two reman calipers? I bet its under $100 for the pair if you call around.

96eb96,

Thanks for the great advice.
Your right, they are under $100 at AdvancedAuto so I will probably just replace them in the end, but first will try tonight to see if they come loose—with your suggestion. I will post pictures once I'm done with everything and if the brakes actually work. It has been quite an experience for my first X project. Next, is to replace the shocks and all of the suspension bushings and components (they have never been with 230,000 miles on them). I'm hoping that will be more enjoyable, but I've learned a lot.

 

[96eb96]

Oh, change the brake hoses too, especially the front. I had one lock up a caliper on a high mileage car recently. All that flexing causes them to deteriorate and act as a check valve.They are cheap at NAPA, a bit less if you have an AAA card.

I think it was under $30 out the door for the 2 front.

If you had a shop do one hose and bleed the system you would be out about $200. Definitely worth to do at this point. At this point it would be prudent to change these out for anyone doing a brake job on these trucks.