Section525's Hydro Assist

[IZwack]

Tom, it was the other way around. It wouldnt turn left at all when not moving.

Thats strange cauz I'm getting that symptom with mine right now (using a Toyota IFS box with the stock 2nd gen pump). Most people have said its the steering box.

 

[mynameisaric]

subscribing

 

[IZwack]

Any updates on this piece?

 

[redranger4.0]

No more street time huh:

Hes only doing assist, not full hydro.

 

[Dignan]

Hes only doing assist, not full hydro.

Is full hydro a lot stronger or better off-road? or is it less hassle to do just full hydro instead of the assist? I have thought about doing hydro on mine when I do the SAS, but I want to be street-legal at least for going to the trails, if not for driving around town. Which means hydro-assist for me, but I am curious to know the advantages of full hydro.

 

[Rick]

its hard to turn the wheel with the front being locked in (has a full spool).

With hydro assist you will be able to steer a spool as easy as turning an open diff Puts a ton of strain on everything when you do that. I have accidently left my front locker engaged on the trail and never noticed until I tried to engage the axle for an obstacle, only to find it had already been engaged

 

[IZwack]

Hey Rick, are you using the stock pump?

 

[tdavis]

Full hydro is normally NOT street legal.

Assist is street legal, and in some cases desireable.. IE, you put too large a tire on for the steering box to push/pull.

In some cases, you have to upgrade or modify the powersteering pump. It may not flow enough fluid, or have enough pressure for both a ram and the box.

In some cases, you also need to increase the reservoir size because of heat and fluid movement.

On the zuk, I had to double the size of the reservoir, shim up the pressure relief spring in the power steering pump, and drill out the pump restrictor to get a good response from the system. I also added a very large finned cooler, so I know when I'm getting on it hard, the heat build up is held in check.

 

[Dignan]

Full hydro is normally NOT street legal.

Assist is street legal, and in some cases desireable.. IE, you put too large a tire on for the steering box to push/pull.

In some cases, you have to upgrade or modify the powersteering pump. It may not flow enough fluid, or have enough pressure for both a ram and the box.

In some cases, you also need to increase the reservoir size because of heat and fluid movement.

On the zuk, I had to double the size of the reservoir, shim up the pressure relief spring in the power steering pump, and drill out the pump restrictor to get a good response from the system. I also added a very large finned cooler, so I know when I'm getting on it hard, the heat build up is held in check.

I know that full hydro is illegal for street use, but I'm just wondering if it would be beneficial for off highway, I imagine that most people do it just to have less to go wrong by eliminatining the steering box. Is that right? If so, is the steering actually better on the assist system because you have both, or does the ram render the box basically useless, except for the fact that it is street-legal?

 

[mynameisaric]

problem with full hydro is if you lose a line/fluid leak.. or anything like that, you lose all steering capability. that is why it is illegal for street use. with a traditional box, you have a manual connection to the tie rod to turn the tires, even if you lose steering pressure.

 

[redranger4.0]

problem with full hydro is if you lose a line/fluid leak.. or anything like that, you lose all steering capability. that is why it is illegal for street use. with a traditional box, you have a manual connection to the tie rod to turn the tires, even if you lose steering pressure.

This isnt 100% correct. Ever drive a forklift? It all depends on the Orbital valve you use. For example a forklift orbital will allow you to turn the wheel with out the motor on. If you buy your parts from a 4x4 shop who knows what they are doing, such as POS on pirate. The orbital will allow you to steer the vehicle with out the motor on. It is hard, but have you ever tryed to steer a vehicle with no power steering and aired down 38's? it sucks either way.

 

[mynameisaric]

i didn't know that. thanks for correcting me. and i have steered a forklift, and they don't like to turn at idle unless they are electric. so if there is this orbital valve deal, then why is full hydro "illegal". or is it just considered illegal like beadlocks are illegal?

 

[redranger4.0]

Also Full hydro isnt illegal, its a gray area. I have yet to know anyone who has been able to find an actual law that says its illegal. I think I once saw a law for a particular county, that said there had to mechanical linkage, but other then that ive never seen anything that says you cant, or that you can. is it smart to run full hydro on your DD? No, but as far as I know there isnt a clear cut law that says you cant.

 

[mynameisaric]

so it is like the beadlock issue basically. i have heard the mechanical linkage deal before too. Assist sounds good enough for me.

section525: you need to get to work on this before we hijack your thread some more.

 

[section525]

That's what it's here for. There isn't much hydro tech on this site so I thought I'd get a project together! :

I'll swing by the shop in a few minutes to see what's going on.

 

[mynameisaric]

you, stic-o, jefe and the other second gen SAS are my inspiration. keep it up

 

[Dignan]

Also Full hydro isnt illegal, its a gray area. I have yet to know anyone who has been able to find an actual law that says its illegal. I think I once saw a law for a particular county, that said there had to mechanical linkage, but other then that ive never seen anything that says you cant, or that you can. is it smart to run full hydro on your DD? No, but as far as I know there isnt a clear cut law that says you cant.

Hmm, I checked into it a little. Here in Utah the Safety Inspection Manual says some stuff about checking the pitman arm and stuff, but it doesn't really say that if its not there to reject the car. So I would think that as long as the other stuff, like no play in the steering wheel and such was ok, it would pass. Now, that being said, just passing the inspection doesn't mean it is legal. We get people in my court all the time with tint issues or mud flap issues or something like that, and they say, "well the inspection place passed it". Sorry, that's not a defense. It would have been nice if they let you know, but you still can't have limo tint on your windshield. So, with that in mind I decided to look in the book for Utah State Traffice Code. I didn't see anything about steering in there at all, and I've never seen a ticket for it at the court either.

I might have overlooked it in the code, that is a big boring book, but I think it sounds like it would be ok. If I can't find it, I bet most of the officers don't know either, even if there is a law about it.

I think I will still go with the assist, but it is something to think about. I have a while before I get to that decision.

Is the first generation explorer's power steering pump good for either conversion?

 

[colindo94]

What is needed to do hydro assist on a first gen with the stock steering box. It seems like I've heard of people using a first gen box, but I could be wrong. I'm intrested to see what it takes to do this when I'm done with the sas.

 

[Dignan]

What is needed to do hydro assist on a first gen with the stock steering box. It seems like I've heard of people using a first gen box, but I could be wrong. I'm intrested to see what it takes to do this when I'm done with the sas.

I'm still interested in this subject. Does anyone have an answer for this? Is the first generation's explorer P/S pump junk or decent? Mine has a leak and whines when it gets low, but it turns my wheels. It would be great if I rebuilt it, but I don't want to bother with that if I'm going to end up replacing it after the SAS to get hydro-assist.

 

[Dignan]

Any updates on this piece?

Hey Rick, are you using the stock pump?

What is needed to do hydro assist on a first gen with the stock steering box. It seems like I've heard of people using a first gen box, but I could be wrong. I'm intrested to see what it takes to do this when I'm done with the sas.

Hey, if anyone is still following this thread, I'd love to hear more about it. I don't know a lot about this hydro stuff, but it is very interesting and I want to learn more about it, especially with how it pertains to Explorers since that is the vehicle I will likely try a hydro-steering project on first.