Headlights

[C420sailor]

If you guys really want to **** on people about lights, please go after the guys who run those daylight white off-road LED lightbars on public roads. They’re far worse than any bulb you could put in a stock housing, by an order of magnitude.

Total pieces of ****, those people.

I’ve had good results with aftermarket housings, high quality incandescent bulbs, and proper aiming. Night and day over poorly aimed, thoroughly yellowed and oxidized lights.

 

[J_C]

^ I agree, the light bars are the worst. Around here, most people seem to recognize that they can't run those on public roads, except out on the back roads, so it is less often a problem, while those who have the LED drop-in bulbs are running them everywhere, every night. Plus the LED drop-ins have gotten brighter than they used to be, at least when new before they start to suffer degradation.

There are some states (more and more I suspect) that will fail a vehicle on the vehicle inspection if it has the wrong bulb installed (for example Virginia linked below) but there are no inspections here. For a long time I was glad there weren't any, just avoiding the hassle of having it done if nothing else (and fraud at shops that fail people trying to drum up repair profits) , but this has created an opportunity for more shenanigans in vehicle alternations than in states that have the inspections.

Title 19. Public Safety

law.lis.virginia.gov

LED light bar, LED headlight, mis-aimed headlight, or this guy, if blinding people they are all part of the same problem.

 

[239]

How much are you willing to spend time and money wise? You can get modern led bulbs that have the led chips placed exactly where a halogen filament would be so you don’t blind other people. My parents vehicles have them and they never get flashed since the led bulbs produce a clear cutoff line. Morimoto 2-Stroke 3.0 bulbs are a good example. Combined with some new headlight assemblies and you should be ok if the pattern on the wall has a good cutoff. The image below shows the morimoto led bulb compared to a halogen.

I went with an hid projector retrofit on my truck in 2018. I spent around $500 on the kit, including the cost of new headlights. Plus a couple weekends to get everything together. But I’m happy with the results.

 

[J_C]

How much are you willing to spend time and money wise? You can get modern led bulbs that have the led chips placed exactly where a halogen filament would be so you don’t blind other people. My parents vehicles have them and they never get flashed since the led bulbs produce a clear cutoff line.

No. What you have pictured is very clearly projecting more, colder color temperature light into the other lane and further ahead, is unquestionably more blinding.

Again, that I don't flash people is only a sign that I recognize the screwed up bulbs don't go any dimmer so there is no point.

What if I did flash your parents and they didn't have a way to turn their headlights down, then should I force them to stop? Of course I wouldn't, just playing devil's advocate here... It's not acceptable to break the law and blind people then suggest it's fine because nobody caused a confrontation about it.

 

[239]

No. What you have pictured is very clearly projecting more, colder color temperature light into the other lane and further ahead, is unquestionably more blinding.

Again, that I don't flash people is only a sign that I recognize the screwed up bulbs don't go any dimmer so there is no point.

What if I did flash your parents and they didn't have a way to turn their headlights down, then should I force them to stop? Of course I wouldn't, just playing devil's advocate here... It's not acceptable to break the law and blind people then suggest it's fine because nobody caused a confrontation about it.

It’s not anymore blinding than the halogen. Just a different color temperature. Both bulbs produce a small amount of light above the cutoff, that’s just the nature of a reflector headlight.

A simple test with a lux meter will prove that the bulbs are similar to the halogens. They do produce more light sure, that’s the point of led bulbs. But as long as the light is below the cutoff it’s completely legal.

If you’re referring to my hid projectors, also no. Here is a very simple picture that shows what a “cutoff line” is. It keeps the light below other drivers. Notice how the beam pattern is lower on the left side, out of consideration for oncoming traffic.

Obviously if “colder” temperature headlights weren’t legal, manufacturers wouldn’t be switching to them in a mass.

 

[J_C]

It’s not anymore blinding than the halogen. Just a different color temperature. Both bulbs produce a small amount of light above the cutoff, that’s just the nature of a reflector headlight.

A simple test with a lux meter will prove that the bulbs are similar to the halogens. They do produce more light sure, that’s the point of led bulbs. But as long as the light is below the cutoff it’s completely legal.

Those are aimed fairly low but it doesn't address side-scatter. Besides, it is not relevant whether a lux meter registered the same, because even at the exact same lux, the colder color temperature is more glaring. This is due to the human eye sensitivity to different wavelengths.

It is not legal. See my prior posts. You can't put an LED bulb in an incan housing and be legal. There is no kind of self-analysis of differences that matters, it's illegal from the get-go, but in fact, your pictures show it is more blinding. Even if that vehicle is driven far enough back to not cast directly into a vehicle head of it, it is still too bright, and can still never pass a vehicle going the opposite direction, nor drive by pedestrians, etc.

Surely you did not think it merely a matter of the top-cutoff to address that? What about the reflection off the road when wet, icy, snowy, etc?

However, they are still illegal even if so dim you can't tell if they're turned on.

 

[239]

Those are aimed fairly low but it doesn't address side-scatter. Besides, it is not relevant whether a lux meter registered the same, because even at the exact same lux, the colder color temperature is more glaring. This is due to the human eye sensitivity to different wavelengths.

It is not legal. See my prior posts. You can't put an LED bulb in an incan housing and be legal. There is no kind of self-analysis of differences that matters, it's illegal from the get-go, but in fact, your pictures show it is more blinding. Even if that vehicle is driven far enough back to not cast into a vehicle head of it, it can still never pass a vehicle going the opposite direction, nor drive by pedestrians, etc.

I've passed countless vehicles going the other way (google sloped cutoff line), pedestrians, even police officers and I've never had an issue. Like I said, there are legal options to retrofit headlights. People who research and take time to retrofit should not be grouped in with those who use generic led bulbs in reflector housings. But that’s pretty much my point.

 

[J_C]

^ You should contact NHTSA, providing the make/model/link to your housings, and to the bulbs, and ask them if that's legal. If you research it, from unbiased sources, not LED bulb sellers or those just repeating their marketing lies, you will find this out on your own.

You should also ask other people if it is harder to see when your headlights shine at them, except based on those pictures, there is no question about it. You're just telling me you blind huge numbers of people and then didn't get Rambo on you so you think they don't mind.

You want to state anecdotal things, that nobody forced you to stop as some evidence it isn't a problem. It very clearly is based on your picture. That someone else has worse headlights, is not a consolation. It's like robbing a bank and only getting $1000 instead of $5000? Not a lesser offense, still illegal.

Everyone who makes effort to modify their headlights and results in blinding people more on public roads should be grouped together as part of the problem. The other part of the problem is two-fold, 1) The lack of enforcement and penalties for sellers (like ebay and amazon), and 2) the lack of enforcement on roads. Owners should be ticketed, then vehicle impounded since it can't be driven off like that, unless the owner can swap in the appropriate bulbs within the few minutes the LEO can wait (less time than waiting for a tow truck to haul it off).

This is why we have laws, that some people think they have to be forced by others to stop, won't voluntarily do it on their own.

 

[Chris_A.]

^ You should contact NHTSA, providing the make/model/link to your housings, and to the bulbs, and ask them if that's legal. If you research it, from unbiased sources, not LED bulb sellers or those just repeating their marketing lies, you will find this out on your own.

You should also ask other people if it is harder to see when your headlights shine at them, except based on those pictures, there is no question about it. You're just telling me you blind huge numbers of people and then didn't get Rambo on you so you think they don't mind.

You want to state anecdotal things, that nobody forced you to stop as some evidence it isn't a problem. It very clearly is based on your picture. That someone else has worse headlights, is not a consolation. It's like robbing a bank and only getting $1000 instead of $5000? Not a lesser offense, still illegal.

Everyone who makes effort to modify their headlights and results in blinding people more on public roads should be grouped together as part of the problem. The other part of the problem is two-fold, 1) The lack of enforcement and penalties for sellers (like ebay and amazon), and 2) the lack of enforcement on roads. Owners should be ticketed, then vehicle impounded since it can't be driven off like that, unless the owner can swap in the appropriate bulbs within the few minutes the LEO can wait (less time than waiting for a tow truck to haul it off).

This is why we have laws, that some people think they have to be forced by others to stop, won't voluntarily do it on their own.

I concur. Please, understand that we do not drive perfect straight lines. We drive curves. We drive hills. You cannot increase light without blinding oncoming traffic. I lump OEMs with all of the other offenders. The differential between natural light and the frequency/spectrum of the light is the basis of the problem. The human eye cannot react to the change without being blinded. This is because of the human eye design.
Many drive with "driving" lights on. This is a moving violation. Why? Because of the 55w light limit. Same with "brights" that use 2 filament at the same time. Police can stop and ticket you and you have to prove them wrong. Relay mod on headlights is the same thing. You as an individual can do this; BUT, you are responsible for the results. Hence, the tickets.

 

[masospaghetti]

^ You should contact NHTSA, providing the make/model/link to your housings, and to the bulbs, and ask them if that's legal. If you research it, from unbiased sources, not LED bulb sellers or those just repeating their marketing lies, you will find this out on your own.

You should also ask other people if it is harder to see when your headlights shine at them, except based on those pictures, there is no question about it. You're just telling me you blind huge numbers of people and then didn't get Rambo on you so you think they don't mind.

You want to state anecdotal things, that nobody forced you to stop as some evidence it isn't a problem. It very clearly is based on your picture. That someone else has worse headlights, is not a consolation. It's like robbing a bank and only getting $1000 instead of $5000? Not a lesser offense, still illegal.

Everyone who makes effort to modify their headlights and results in blinding people more on public roads should be grouped together as part of the problem. The other part of the problem is two-fold, 1) The lack of enforcement and penalties for sellers (like ebay and amazon), and 2) the lack of enforcement on roads. Owners should be ticketed, then vehicle impounded since it can't be driven off like that, unless the owner can swap in the appropriate bulbs within the few minutes the LEO can wait (less time than waiting for a tow truck to haul it off).

This is why we have laws, that some people think they have to be forced by others to stop, won't voluntarily do it on their own.

Yep, x2 agree with J_C.

The light emitting elements of a LED "bulb" aren't located exactly the same as a halogen, so you don't get the same beam pattern. Result is more scatter and blinded drivers. LEDs are getting closer but they aren't there yet (and the fact there are no DOT certified ones is a good indication of this). Just because you don't get pulled over doesn't mean its fine.

Current LED drop-in replacements also have a poor track record for longevity (despite their claims of 100,000 hour lifespan or whatever) and consume almost as much power as the original halogen.

I've found that the stock housings in most vehicles (including Explorers) that are in good condition with good halogens have plenty of illumination for safe driving. Yes yes...they don't look as cool as blue LEDs - but be kind to your fellow drivers. Besides, nobody around you is thinking about how cool your headlights are, they just think you are a jerk.

 

[C420sailor]

Virginia tests aim and headlight output. Mine failed due to inadequate output—housing was too oxidized. I never thought much of it, just figured that old headlights sucked.

I sanded, wet sanded, polished, buffed, and waxed those puppies. They were crystal, glistening clear. The light output was absolutely night and day—far better than I thought possible, and more than adequate for night driving.

 

[masospaghetti]

Virginia tests aim and headlight output. Mine failed due to inadequate output—housing was too oxidized. I never thought much of it, just figured that old headlights sucked.

I sanded, wet sanded, polished, buffed, and waxed those puppies. They were crystal, glistening clear. The light output was absolutely night and day—far better than I thought possible, and more than adequate for night driving.

You can also try adding the headlight coating such as Meguiar's. It provides some UV protection, but it also surprisingly provides significantly better clarity then without. Maybe it fills the small scratches and voids in the housing.

 

[J_C]

Besides, nobody around you is thinking about how cool your headlights are, they just think you are a jerk.

Heh, I forgot to add that!

Some people put a purpose specific coating on a refinished lens, but many of those need mechanically abraded away to strip them off when they degrade. Instead, 2-3 times a year I put on ??? Turtle Wax Synthetic polishing wax sealant something... meant for paint, but not necessarily modern clear-coat paints since it does polish a little. For example I've used it before to put a near mirror shine on unanodized aluminum.

It also makes ice come off easier. Washes off with dish detergent or anything else that'll strip polymer sealants off.

 

[guy goodenough]

Someone has die to collect that 50 mill.

Gonna continue to be an outlaw with those LEDs?

I have a 94 ranger. I installed led lights. I had to adjust the headlights down to stop getting people from flashing at me. They are still better than regular lights

 

[Mbrooks420]

They probably still also suck for other people.

 

[Mr. Alligator]

We are NOT going to have an agreement on the LED modifications ...

This much seems clear: (1) the LED modifications result in greater light output and often make it easier for the individual with the modifications to see; (2) these LED modifications are not legal; and (3) these LED modifications make it harder for all other drivers to see.

These LED modifications might be similar to taking off your catalytic converters. Removal of catalytic converters “makes my truck run better”, “saves money on replacement costs”, ”less maintenance”, “better mileage”, “one less source of trouble”, “sounds cool”, etc. Further, most could also argue that, although it is contrary to law, they have never gotten a ticket for the removal, and have never been pulled out of their truck and beat for removal, or that no one has even complained.

The people doing these modifications may have advantages, but everyone else bears the cost. Sometimes infinitely small, but VERY real. This is classic tragedy of the commons. Individual users, acting independently according to their own self-interest, behave contrary to the common good of all users by spoiling the shared resource (air quality, or the ability of everyone to see clearly at night), through their collective action.

Drive safely and respect others.

 

[drdoom]

Whoever thinks blue headlamps look good is a total Skippy. Worthless & unsafe bling.