92 Eddie B..delay in starting up

[luvmyjaithyn]

Hello!!!

I would like to thank you in advance for trying to understand my issue as I have no idea what I'm talking about....lol.

I have a 92 Explorer, 4x4, EB edition. I brought it used about a year ago, it has about 90,000 miles on it. My issue started about 2 months ago. It was taking to long to start or crank over. Now the problem is worse and it actually takes a few tries to get it started. I have had the spark plugs/wires changed last month and a new starter this month. I went to an Autozone and altho the kid was confusing, he said the starter, alternator and battery tested fine. What confused me was he said my battery is reading old but still "good". I just asked if it needed to be replaced and he said no.

I'm at witts end and scared the next time I try to start this truck, it will not. She drives fine after she's on...but I have to give her a little gas for her to crank over. I'm stuck on getting a diagnostic test or go start to replacing the battery. I've concluded that it might be battery related due to the check engine and battery light only coming on after she dies (from trying to crank over).

Please help and sorry so long!!

 

[MrShorty]

My first thought with a "long" start like that is a fuel delivery problem.

What does the fuel pressure come up to when the key is first turned on? How long cranking does it take for the pressure to come up to spec (40ish psi)? Is the situation improved if you cycle the key on and off a few times (to build up pressure) before starting?

 

[luvmyjaithyn]

Thank you for trying to assist me!!

The two theories I've been told is the battery or the fuel pump. Everyone wants me to just get these things done and hope for the best. I already did that with the starter so I'm leary to keep just trying random suggestions...lol. It's hard to check because she seems to act just fine once someone tries to look at her, but that is after I've been driving her for about 30mins to a hour. But early in the morning she plays "hard to start". It usually takes about 2-3 attempts to crank over and stay on. I'm not sure how to answer your questions as I only know about items I've had to fix.

Fuel related.....No gas smell. Gas runs out as normal. She is silent as can be once in motion. I read somewhere that if the battery is low, that your headlights and inside light will dim when you are starting it and that is the case. I had Autozone test the battery and he said it is "good". Do you know if this dim lights theory is true?

Thanks again for your help...I'm sorry I can't be more detailed on answers to your questions but I def will ask someone to get me those answers for you ASAP. : )

 

[luvmyjaithyn]

**update**

I think using the gas was an illusion to me. I started her up this morning without using any gas and making sure the lights were off/radio off. She stalled a tad but came on the first try. I don't know if the new starter requires more power or if it's even the battery but I'm going to switch the battery out today. Doesnt hurt to have a new battery...and much cheaper than mechanic giving me random parts to fix (the most expensive at that). One guy even said..."worse case scenario...you'll have a new blah, blah". Well that's not helping me at this moment..hahahaha.

I appreciate the help and will update this post later today. Let's pray it's not the fuel pump altho I will get that changed in a few months (just to be up to date on when all major parts were installed).

**Love the truck to death as if I had her since I started driving...lol. Hope she lasts at least another 2 years. Cheap parts and no truck payment is also a bonus.

 

[Joe Dirt]

I really lean towards a fuel delivery problem, not battery. If you have enough battery to crank it over that long, it isn't a battery issue I don't think. My truck will start up perfectly in the morning and when warm if I start it within 1/2 hour of turning it off. If I start it when warm and it's been sitting longer than 1/2 hour, I will need to crank it for 5-7 seconds to get it to start. Once started, it runs great.

One of my buddies had the same problem, and it ended up being the fuel pump going out. I lean that way, either pump or sending unit, but I don't think battery- mine is new...

 

[Verno]

Ok, here is some useful info to clarify some of your questions:
1. Diming lights when starting. Your battery is a reserve of electricity. The largest drain is the starter when it is turning the engine over. Since the battery (new or old) only has so many amps of current, the lights will dim while the starter is engaged. Once the motor is running the alternator recharges the battery back to its full state. If you think the battery may be weakening with age, have a load test done. Not sure what type of test the "kid" at Autozone performed.
2. As stated already, if the battery has enough to crank the engine over until you get it started then you do not need to replace it, unless you just want a more powerful battery - then make sure you get one with more COLD CRANKING AMPS.
3. When you turn the key from off to run/on do you hear the fuel pump whine? This is where it primes the lines (builds up fuel pressure.)
4. This is a fuel injected engine, you should not pump the gas pedal until after the engine has started.
All your symptoms point toward fuel pressure/fuel delivery. Try turning key on for 3-5 seconds then off, then on again for 3-5 seconds before you attempt to start. If it fires right up, then you have proven it is fuel pressure not building up = fuel pump, fuel filter issue.
Hope this helps you.

 

[Joe Dirt]

Verno- mine is absent from cure on the prime thing. I can prime it 3-4 times and it still doesn't want to start without cranking.

...however...

when I fill up, the overflow, well, overflows- all over the ground, the pump shutoffs don't work, so there is something going on... I think there is a hole in the filler neck overflow back to the tank. If my overflow is open or a line plugged for return, will it cause that issue because of fuel system pressure being compromised somehow?

I need to test the rail pressure when cold, immediate hot, and hot but after sitting a 1/2 hour or so but thought I'd toss the idea out there...

When I start the truck cold, I just turn right away- primes as I'm cranking even, and it's golden. Is it possible that the fuel pressure regulator is shot and the lines are over-pressurizing causing my bad start when it's hot after 1/2 hour of sitting? I only ask because it starts up perfectly fine when cold.

Fuel filter is brand new also.

Maybe this could be the issue with the OP's truck as well...

 

[Verno]

sounds like maybe the overflow hose is off at the tank

 

[Joe Dirt]

Good guess... Not exactly, but close enough- this is what I found tonight- see anything wrong with the return line aside from most of it not being there?!?

That would explain the torrential downpour of gas the first time I filler her up.

I have a new one on order...

Would not having that solidly connected affect warm startup like that?

 

[TedJ]

Yeah that might, um, cause a leak.... :

As to the OP's problem, sometimes the one way check valve in the fuel pump can go bad, meaning that all the fuel in the lines drains back to the tank. IIRC the fuel pressure regulator can do the same thing to some extent.

I think the first thing is to get a fuel pressure gauge (autozone loan-a-tool works here) and see how long the pressure holds after it is turned off, and how quickly the pressure builds when turning they key on. Then we can go on figuring out the actual cause of the problem depending on what the pressure readings look like.

I know there is a spec for the pressure (and I think for how long it is supposed to hold as well) but I am not near my FSM CD at the moment. Maybe someone else can post it.