alignment? stills pulls to the right!! | Page 2 | Ford Explorer Forums - Serious Explorations

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alignment? stills pulls to the right!!

A LOT of shops just do what is know as a "Toe and go", the good ones do a full alignment, if it took a shop any less then 1.5 hours to do an alignment on your truck, and it did not have upper control are Caster/camber shims, then all they did was a toe and go, and they did not touch the camber.
 



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Really? And who told you that? Why do you think a proper alignment has Positive camber on the left, and straight up or negative camber on the right? I don't know about where you live, but here in Az most roads have a pretty good crown. The front ends are set up to allow for that. Another reason I do my own.I find I can do better with a tape measure and a level than most shops around here do with all their high priced equipment.

I have never heard of camber being set to different amounts one side to the other, on purpose. The "crown" on a road is spread over a distance of many feet. Regardless of the vehicle rolling along at a slight incline due to the crown, the ideal camber value has the tire's profile riding perpendicular to the pavement, regardless of the pavement's angle with respect to horizontal or level.

High degree of camber, positive or negative, is the worst contributor to uneven tire wire. Camber is affected by the amount of loading on the vehicle's suspension, as well. I, too, reside in AZ. imp
 






Really? And who told you that? Why do you think a proper alignment has Positive camber on the left, and straight up or negative camber on the right? I don't know about where you live, but here in Az most roads have a pretty good crown. The front ends are set up to allow for that. Another reason I do my own.I find I can do better with a tape measure and a level than most shops around here do with all their high priced equipment.


So do I, always have. But, tell me how you use those common tools to accurately set caster? imp
 






The Camber "split" can affect pull. I just had to work on our Mustang thanks to the bad camber split.

Turned out we had -1.5 degrees on one side and -.5 on the other as I didn't check the alignment after changing the strut mounts last time.

When I set the camber to -.75 on both sides the pull went away now that the camber split was taken care of.

Just to clarify though, -.5 to -1 is "my" spec for camber on the mustang as the front end handles much better with that camber BUT that isn't the factory spec.

~Mark

Notice I said "materially" affect, as in, not a whole lot. Real far out caster split, along with a good amount of toe-in, will all but turn a vehicle right off the road when you let go of the wheel. Be sure also, that vehicles having front-wheel drive, that includes 4 wheel drives, obviously, often have factory recommended negative toe-in; they are actually toed out. A toe-out condition on a car like a Mustang will make it go all over the road. imp
 






Notice I said "materially" affect, as in, not a whole lot. Real far out caster split, along with a good amount of toe-in, will all but turn a vehicle right off the road when you let go of the wheel. Be sure also, that vehicles having front-wheel drive, that includes 4 wheel drives, obviously, often have factory recommended negative toe-in; they are actually toed out. A toe-out condition on a car like a Mustang will make it go all over the road. imp

I think we are on the same page..


  • Bad camber split can cause a pull..
  • Bad Caster split can cause a pull..
  • Bad Toe can make the car hard to control & is what wears the tires out fast..

I was trying to add to what you already said.. I don't think the meaning came across that way though..

Personally, I like a 0 toe and 0 camber for the FWD honda and TTB explorer. The caster on the Honda isn't adjustable and I don't really "set" the caster on the explorer. I've checked it a few time but with the really soft springs it changes quite a bit just by changing the # of people in the vehicle or how much gas we have etc. I just set the caster so the less negative (to an extent) is on the passenger side since I'd rather have it pull right than left (easier to hold the steering wheel). Of course, if it pulls too much I adjust it to if if has a pull, its to the right.. I don't like it pulling left. I don't remember what I got now but right after the c&t beams I had way too much (12+ degrees on each side IIRC). It's less now that I have longer springs.

The Mustang is the only vehicle where we set the Camber negative and that is to help the handling. As long as we rotate the tires every 6k or so it doesn't affect the tire wear much.

~Mark
 






Putting this stuff into words often makes meanings seem other than intended. Thanks for clarifying! It took me years of messing with alignment settings to finally get enough "handle" on it all to be able to change something and predict WTH would happen. Here's the most important fact I learned: Caster angle (positive) forces the wheel to point straight ahead. Let's say the right wheel has LESS caster than the left: then, it is easier to FORCE the vehicle to track right, since the caster on that side is WEAKER than the left, at holding straight ahead. The toe-in from straight ahead of the LEFT wheel pushes the vehicle to the right. To keep going straight ahead, the steering wheel is turned slightly towards a left turn. Driving like that for a long time "feathers" the edges of the tires, since they are not rolling like true smooth diameters. Now, why not pull to the left, if BOTH wheels are trying for straight ahead due to caster, though R.H. has less caster angle?

Because when the wheels are turned towards the RIGHT, for right turn, the RIGHT wheel turns FARTHER into the turn than the left, due to the Ackerman Principle built in. Easier to move the R.H. wheel further to right than the L.H., since L.H. higher caster resists it.

Make any sense? imp
 






I'm NOT going to get into a pissing match but, When I bent the front end on my 77 F150 4WD, I took it to an alignment shop and they said it was in factory specs. I found a shop in Cottonwood with an old time alignment man who fixed it. He told me that it is not in "factory specs" when he finished, but, it would drive straight and would not wear tires. GUESS WHAT, he was exactly right. Drove better than it did from the factory, and NO ADVERSE tire wear. Want to guess where he set the camber? Straight up on the right and 1/2 degree positive on the left. Also had quite a number of big trucks aligned. Want to guess how they were set? And, I've been around long enough to know how to use basic tools to accomplish what I need to do. Want to come drive my Explorer which is showing no adverse tire wear? It could use a bit more toe-in, but I'm content to leave it alone. After 2 1/2 years with cheap Prime well tires. It amazes me the tire wear patterns. There are none. You all can read and do what you want, but I have had too much experience with high priced shops that don't know how to do anything but charge high prices, and do shoddy work. I'll keep using my tape measure and level.
 






I'm NOT going to get into a pissing match but, When I bent the front end on my 77 F150 4WD, I took it to an alignment shop and they said it was in factory specs. I found a shop in Cottonwood with an old time alignment man who fixed it. He told me that it is not in "factory specs" when he finished, but, it would drive straight and would not wear tires. GUESS WHAT, he was exactly right. Drove better than it did from the factory, and NO ADVERSE tire wear. Want to guess where he set the camber? Straight up on the right and 1/2 degree positive on the left. Also had quite a number of big trucks aligned. Want to guess how they were set? And, I've been around long enough to know how to use basic tools to accomplish what I need to do. Want to come drive my Explorer which is showing no adverse tire wear? It could use a bit more toe-in, but I'm content to leave it alone. After 2 1/2 years with cheap Prime well tires. It amazes me the tire wear patterns. There are none. You all can read and do what you want, but I have had too much experience with high priced shops that don't know how to do anything but charge high prices, and do shoddy work. I'll keep using my tape measure and level.

Hey, not disagreeing with you mostly! Especially on F-150 a bit of positive camber with no load in the truck is good; the front twin I-beams (if '77 had them w/4WD, I can't recall), swing the wheel upwards into negative camber as they travel up and down.

Years back, when I wrecked and fixed my '65 Mustang, the wheelbase on the R.H. side was over an inch less than L.H. Turned out after adjusting alignment to compensate, it tracked as good as new. I use a big carpenter's square for camber, have used a plumb bob and steel scale to measure offset of steering knuckle to set caster. How do you do your caster? imp

Edit: Wife & I lived outside Phoenix 20 years, went up to Dewey & Prescott often, as I worked District Maintenance for Sears Roebuck. Dewey especially grew very fast. I wonder if the Sears in Prescott is still open? They have closed quite a few since I retired in '98.
 






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