ball joints worn question

[cerberusaardvark]

so ive been doing a lot of suspension fine tuning lately.. one of the things that ive noticed over the past few days is that there is a terrible grinding noise coming from the drivers side wheel area at low speeds. i took the wheel apart and everything seems fine, but when i grab on top and on bottom of the tire, i can wobble it back and forth a slight bit. that says to me ball joint problem. i already ordered new ones (mcquay norris) and my question is other than the worn ball joints, is there anything else that is at risk if i keep driving it while i wait for the new bjoints to come in?

 

[waskly]

if it ball joints, they can break and release the knuckle, wheel assembly, and if its in the front can be an accident.

yes they can break and the wheel go flying.

 

[RangerX]

Did you take the rotor off and check the condition of the inner wheel bearing?

 

[mehedgec]

You need to see if the play you are feeling is in the bearings or ball joints

 

[cerberusaardvark]

i did not check the condition of the inner wheel bearing, only the outer. i took everything apart from the rotor outward and put it back together and torqued to spec a few time to make sure the bearings werent loose.. guess ill go look at the inner bearing. btw everything in there is barely 5000 miles and seven months old. everything in there looks brand new and theres no obvious sign of failure besides the slight play.

 

[cerberusaardvark]

also when i checked the bearings i wasnt sure what i was looking for as they still looked brand new. nothing bent, no scoring, no scratches, all the rollers were still there, and they were still packed with grease. other than the inner bearing moving around between the seal and the rotor (which is how it went on) nothing popped out at me. i ordered a set of mcquay norris ball joints and they should be here in 6- 10 days from thursday. i hope whatever rattle is going on can keep itseslf under control till then.

question about adjustable camber bushings- worth it or not worth it?

 

[koda2000]

with the tire off the ground, if you can wiggle top to bottom, but not front to back = bad ball joints. if you can wiggle it in both directions it could be lose/bad wheel bearings or bad ball joints and tie rod ends. a little (very little) wheel bearing play is normal.

 

[cerberusaardvark]

yup theres definitely only top to bottom play. no front to back. i pumped up my ball joints with grease hopefully to ease the strain on them while the new ones are en route.

 

[cerberusaardvark]

ok so i got the new ball joints in. everything is greased up and torqued to spec. however, when i raise the wheel in the air i can still wiggle it when i grab it on top and on bottom. i didnt think it was the bearings but tomorrow i will buy brand new ones to see if that gets rid of the wiggling.

when i get down and look from the side while wiggling, i cant see any movement in the knuckle at all. this makes me think its loose on the spindle. could there be any other explanation???

 

[cerberusaardvark]

okay well i went to autozone and picked up a replacement set of timken wheel bearings and a new seal. i think it might have been the inner wheel bearing after all. well, now i know that i wasnt the ball joints sill just save the pair that i have just in case. although, replacing the ball joints cut about 60% of the top to bottom wobble.

Solved! although id like to know why the heck my brand new wheel bearings went bad after only a few thousand miles!

 

[koda2000]

did you try to re-torque the axle nut? a lot of times i find it necessary to re-torque the axle nut after the first few hundred miles because the freshly greased bearing will loosen up slightly once the grease heats up and flows. to minimize this you're supposed to tighten the nut up tight during installation and then back it off an torque it to spec.

if replacing the ball joints eliminated 60% of the wiggle then they needed to be replaced.

 

[cerberusaardvark]

i did try just re torquing the axle nut a few times, going from 35 foot pounds to 16 inch pounds. i still have a bit of clunk from the steering but i think ive just got an old factory gearbox and pump turning a brand newe lift and a dropped pitman arm. i still dont know what caused them to wear out. when i looked at them hey didnt seem worn or broken at all.

 

[koda2000]

i assume you changed the races with the bearings, right? how did the races look? i don't understand your comment... "going from 35 foot pounds to 16 inch pounds". i don't know what the recommended torque is, but 35 foot pounds sounds like way to much and an inch pound is way less than a foot pound. 16 inch pounds sounds more like it. i just try to go for zero lash (no play) nut just snug. Timken are good bearings, they shouldn't fail so soon.

Did you mean torque the axle nut to 35 fp initially then back it off and torque to 16 ip as the final torque? that makes sense.

as far as the ball joints, i just changed my today (boots were torn) and although there was no perceptible movement in them while on the truck, once they were off it was clear they were toast. if you can easily wiggle (or even move) the ball in the joint they're shot.

 

[cerberusaardvark]

you are correct- haynes said to bring it up to 35fp, then back off 1/4 turn then bring it to 16 ip. the races of the bearings are the metal sleeves they come in right? bc if they are, i have never seen how they fit into the rotor too. in my rotor, which is an ebc slotted rotor, there was no room for them, so i saved them. the space fit the bearing exactly, with no room for error. i spent a lot of time trying to figure out what the metal sleeves were that the bearing rested, in the packaging. eventually, with no mention of them in the haynes or in the forums, i just put the bearings in their slots in the rotor, torqued them, and left them.

 

[koda2000]

you are correct- haynes said to bring it up to 35fp, then back off 1/4 turn then bring it to 16 ip. the races of the bearings are the metal sleeves they come in right? bc if they are, i have never seen how they fit into the rotor too. in my rotor, which is an ebc slotted rotor, there was no room for them, so i saved them. the space fit the bearing exactly, with no room for error. i spent a lot of time trying to figure out what the metal sleeves were that the bearing rested, in the packaging. eventually, with no mention of them in the haynes or in the forums, i just put the bearings in their slots in the rotor, torqued them, and left them.

the races are the tapered piece the bearing sets in. if the races are worn they'll ruin a new bearing. you should always change the race with the bearing. the races in our rotors (Ford or aftermarket) are pressed into the rotor. you can usually hammer out the old race with a drift. the new one can be pressed in, but i've installed them with a hammer using a 3/8 socket extension (the fat end against the edge of the race). you just have to be careful to get them in straight. the metal the race is made of is hard-as-**** so you don't need to worry about hurting it. just don't hit the surface where the bearing rides. you'll know when the race is fully seated because it just feels and sounds different when you strike it. FYI: to grease the new bearing, i just put a blob of good quality wheel bearing grease in the palm of my hand and drag the bearing through it until grease comes our the other side of the bearing.

 

[cerberusaardvark]

aaahhhhhhhh now that makes sense. ive been wondering why the bearings came with those races. well on monday ill take the rotor off again and hammer the old race out of the rotor. i knew it was a smart idea to keep those races.

 

[koda2000]

aaahhhhhhhh now that makes sense. ive been wondering why the bearings came with those races. well on monday ill take the rotor off again and hammer the old race out of the rotor. i knew it was a smart idea to keep those races.

in case it's not obvious, you remove the races by hammering them out from the center of the rotor. you could try putting the races in the freezer overnight. it'll make them ever-so-slightly smaller in diameter. likewise (if you're removing all the grease from the hub) you can warm them up with a hand held torch (or stick em the oven for a while if your wife will let you) as that will make the inside diameter slightly larger. i usually don't bother with the cold/hot thing unless i'm having a problem.

if you want, you can borrow a race installtion tool at one of the auto parts stores.