I got the water-pump blues!

[sirdigalot]

in reference to this thread:

https://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=211280

This is close to one of the worst experiences i have had in working on cars in all my time doing it.

the fan clutch was easy, $22 i got a 36mm 2 1/2 ft crescent wrench (and a 35mm to be sure) from a tool parts online store.... so the fan clutch came of like a dream, so far so good (my car is also flo-grown never saw snow in its life)

however the water pump.... yay...

so i find that before starting someone has already sheared off one bolt on the right hand side by the bypass hose....and just used what seems like 3 tubes of RTV to fix it ( to their credit it actually was holding perfectly fine - i think they over torqued the other bolts to compensate) but the same bolt head snapped off for me as in this post...

now i am not about to strip half the front of the engine, sorry this is my only car, my daily driver and i live in butt-funk central FL luckily i have about 1 inch of bolt left on both sticking out from the timing chain cover.

i have my trusty stud puller which served me well on the the thermostat ( same problem sheared bolt head)

so now i am sitting here in my garage on a wet florida day, drinking beer, listening to 80's music, after heating the living smoke out of, and pb blasting the living snot out of the two remaining bolt studs.... i am hoping the shade-tree gods will smile on me i will sacrifice many a beer to them today, and tomorrow the studs will break free ( like free willy)

however if not, is my only option to pull the timing cover? that sounds like a pain in the bootyhole or should i do like the previous person, and just over tighten ( i am replacing all the bolts because one was very close to snapping while removing - one of the presumably over torqued ones next to the busted one) and use a tube and a half of RTV and maybe even some JB weld.... the car has 226k on it, and i am thinking it may not have much of a good life left, hell it cost $900 3 years ago bought in an emergency, and made 2 trips to chicago and back from Florida at short notice)


i want to do the proper thing and drill out the studs re -tap and reassemble. but that is about a weeks work, and i really need to save my time off for family visit from the motherland this summer.

options? apart from more beer ( today is a write-off the rain is just really annoying, and of course all week while i was in the office it was 85 degrees and sunny, go figure!)

 

[SoHK_alumni]

Hands down, an old water pump replacement on a SBF can be one of the ugliest jobs possible!

Coolant creeps in around the bolts and corrosion sets the bolts solid to the timing cover and cylinder heads.

One thing to try is to drill a couple holes into the timing cover to the stuck bolts and then get, and keep as much penetrating oil in the holes as possible.

Sadly, you might well be in the need of a new timing cover and the time needed to pull the front of the engine down to the block itself.

 

[sirdigalot]

weeelllll pooo!

oh well, if things go south tomorrow, i guess it is a week off work....

on the bright side, ( not the bright side of me torching this mutha and findng something new) i will be able to fix a few more things, heck if the timing cover comes off i may as well just strip the top of the engine replace the HG and clean the crap out of it.... once i put the tip in i may as well go all the way!

the previous owner cared mroe about a big stereo than car maintenance however i have a love of this 5.0, it just is a nice engine.... except the water pump...

oh well time to drown more sorrows in beer and hope tomorrow is a new less rainy day!


the really sad part is i just finished my car-pc to fit in the dash it does all the cool things, and looks real swish, i was hoping to get that installed this weekend, not arse around with a rather cracnky waterpump

 

[sirdigalot]

leaving this here for today as a testament to my waterpump fail

i have progressed to whiskey now and left the waterpump for tomorrow..

 

[sirdigalot]

Well the shade-tree gods smiled upon me... at least once this morning ...sadly I am only batting .500 since the other bolt decided it wanted to snap off flush with the cover... oh well...

Still it's the small victories.... I am not going to bother with stripping down for one bolt and am going to use sealant and other things for now... since I need a head gasket soon anyway, the temp fix will last until I have th top of the engine off.

Still it felt good to extract one of the busted studs...


Sadly I could not find replacements and I am stuck at home until tomorrow when I can get a ride to the store to fix..

Maybe I should have sacrificed more alcohol to the shade-tree gods yesterday!

 

[supermidget]

Pulling the timing cover isn't bad. I had mine off and back on and running in a weekend to fix a leak on my 99 5.0.

The previous owner had pulled it once and didnt put a gasket back on, just some rtv around the water ports.

But like you i gave $1,300 for it 2 years ago and have driven it to hell and back. Its now at 216k but should be retired in the next month or so as i hope to be getting something else.

 

[bobflood]

+1 on the timing cover removal. Once the water pump is off the timing cover is not that much more work. They tend to leak up around the water passages at the top - good to replace the TC gasket as a PM measure. You will have to unbolt the oil pan and drop it down a few millimeters to clear the dowels on the bottom of the TC. Good luck.

 

[Flash]

Just a word about RTV, it's not as evil as the old shade tree mechanics say it is.
As you know, Ford uses it instead of a gasket for the diff cover and yesterday I found out Mitsubishi uses it as an oil pan gasket on some of it's engines.

I've done some kludges in my day but I've never replaced an oil pan gasket with RTV, but I will be tomorrow.

Run a bead around the mating surface and wait for it to go a bit firm but a long way from set.
Then fit up the part and install as many of the bolts that you have left finger tight, the idea is to squeeze the silicone bead into an oval cross section shape but don't squish it out of position.

When the RTV is set, torque the bolts up.

I'd put anti seize on the threads.

Use something like Permatex Ultra Blue safe for sensors.

Is it worthwhile replacing the bolts with studs so that if they get stuck it's actually good? The nuts wouldn't seize on then either.
Would you have enough clearance to remove the pump if it had studs?

 

[Tedybear]

Side bar note about RTV. I know many people coat bolts with RTV when sealing up pans and gaskets, etc...

If the bolt enters a casting and is sealed in. (Thermostat housing comes to mind. You can reach a finger behind where the bolt goes into the manifold. If you can't feel the hole, and the area is sealed? Do not use RTV on the bolt! It's only done if the bolt enters a fluild passageway or is tapped all the way through.

If you coat it with RTV and it's not needed, when you tighten the bolt down you won't get a true torque, and in some cases it can damage the threads. (use enough and it hydrolocks between the head of the bolt and the sealed area you're trying to install it in.)

I didn't really think much of it until I watched a repair video of an older ford standard transmission. Several of the bolts in the pan where 'sealed' into the aluminum housing. The prior owner used a lot of RTV and it had extensive thread damage.

S-
(didn't mean to hyjack the thread....just figured for anyone new at this....)

 

[Flash]

It's not a good idea to use RTV on bolt threads even if you're trying to prevent water ingress for the reasons Tedybear mentioned.

I'd use a very thin wipe of anti seize and the RTV used on the mating surface should stop water getting into the threads.

I did the RTV oil pan gasket on my son's Lancer (Mirage) today and it worked.

 

[sirdigalot]

I used anti seize I learnt to give some antiseize/lube/locker love to bolts from my college days doing aircraft stuff...even if the stuff we worked on never flew. .. also heard way too much about barrier cream from one of the teachers... never looked at it the same ever again lol.

So far so good... losing less water but still a dribble somewhere it'll hold for the time being if I replace the radiator (I think it needs it plastic side seems to be bulging a little ) I might go 2 whole hog and drill and retap the remaining bolt...or just find a "new" engine at pick n pull for $300 lol