intilation of a supercharger?

[EB Rally]

Although I've never paid for it to be done, install can run from $350-$1000 depending on the shop. Too much if you ask me...

I've never installed a BBK, but have installed several Vortechs on cars, and its really not that difficult. The biggest thing that gets people is punching and threading the oil return line to the pan. Does Vortech even offer an Explorer kit? Anyway, its not that difficult to do yourself, but you might want to have some beer on hand to lure your more handy friends over to help Dead Link Removed

Good luck.

------------------
From my favorite Harley T-shirt: "If you can read this, my ***** fell off."

 

[venerated]

Does anyone know about how much the instilation of a bbk or vortek supercharger would cost? How hard would it be to do it yourself if you don't know too much about under the hood work?

thanks for the help

 

[Extreme4x4]

If you want a supercharger, get the BBK. Installation is very easy, as you are only replacing the upper intake. The Vortech kit is a nightmare. Ran one for 40,000 miles on my 93. Because the throttle is on the front of the engine, the mass air is on the right side of the truck, and the space for the compressor is on the left side...... you have a plumbing nightmare. Something as simple as changing plugs becomes a major chore. Plus, if you 4wheel, you will shake loose one or more of the 10-12 connections of the tubing. When this happens, you have unmetered air, and the truck will not run. I also had numerous reliability problems with the kit, and Vortech was very little help (always try to blame you). Also, because the Vortech is a centrifugal type of blower, boost does not come on till after 3000 rpm. This is too high for a vehicle as heavy as an Explorer. The BBK will produce boost from 1000 rpm, and you will still have your engine bay. I will get the BBK someday. I already sold the Vortech 2+ years ago.

 

[scott]

I have personal experience with Paxton and Vortech. Paxton is not quite as good in my opinion because of it's "planetary ball" drive system. They run great until warming up then the boost drops due to slippage from the ball clutch system. Vortech is gear driven so when the pulley turns the impeller turns in direct proportion no matter what. Changing plugs with it requires loosening 5 hose clamps and then removing 3 intake pieces which takes about 4 minutes total. I'm not sure why the previous post said boost wouldn't come until 3000 rpm because Vortech is direct drive just like BBK. However, BBK hasn't fixed their fuel problems yet to my knowledge. They were having problems with it running lean/ vaporlock due to excess heat because the unit is so close to the fuel rails.

 

[QTRMILE]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial ">quote:</font><HR>I'm not sure why the previous post said boost wouldn't come until 3000 rpm because Vortech is direct drive just like BBK.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, the vortech is a gear driven centrifical while the BBK is a positive displacement (roots type.) Centrifical (Vortech, Paxton, ATI) units usually don't build boost until ~3000 rpm. A positve displacement like the BBK (roots) or the Whipple (Lysholm screw) will make full boost between 2000-2200 rpm.

I talked to the Explorer Express folks awhile back, and was not impressed with their knowledge of superchargers. They told me several things that I had to correct them on, and couldn't answer my questions about additional fuel enrichenment. Then they wonder why the thing detonates if they put any boost to it...

Thats too bad to, because the BBK could be a great blower for a 4x4 application. Even better would be a Whipple, but we're out of luck on that one for now. Dead Link Removed

LAter, Rob

------------------
no Explorers, but plenty of Fords:
'82 Mustang GT 351W
'82 F250 351W
'91 Mustang LX 5.0
'78 Mustang II pro street

[This message has been edited by QTRMILE (edited 12-20-1999).]

 

[scott]

Rob,
I'm not sure what your definition of "direct drive" is but mine relates to the absence of any type of clutch system, ie. if the drive pulley spins then so do the impeller(s). I was not referring to the different type of induction, roots vs. centrifugal. I am familiar with B&M, Whipple, BBK and Weiand BUT currently the only two available(to my knowledge) for the 4.0 ltr are Paxton and Vortech. Which is the reason my previous response was based mainly on them. I understand the difference between positive displacement and centrifugal but your statement "centrifugal units usually don't build boost until ~3000 rpm" is incorrect unless you meant full boost. My 4500lb, 4x4, automatic w/stock converter, miniscule 160hp(supposed) V6 will burn both rear tires(locked) from a dead stop(no power braking crap). Without the Vortech it wouldn't even think about doing that and the stall is about 1000 rpm so it obviously makes boost before 3k. Before/after performance speaks for itself in this instance. I'm not sure if you have driven an Explorer with the 4.0 ltr OHV but it's not that impressive, 160hp yeah right! I have to give Chevy credit for engines because their 4.3 is definitely stronger than the old 4.0 but overall Ford is better built in my opinion. The 5.7 is also stronger than the 5.4 in the full size SUV category. Maybe one day Ford will pass Chevy in the power dept. But until then I'll rely on power adders.

 

[QTRMILE]

Do you have a boost gauge? You might be seeing a couple pounds of boost, but centrificals are rpm dependent. I guess it could be pullied to build boost faster, but the fact of the matter is you need to spin them to build boost. I would be curious to see how much boost you see at 1000rpm.

Full boost with a centrifical won't come until redline. As RPMs build, so does the boost. Its a pretty cool race between the boost gauge (you have one right? Dead Link Removed ) and tach/speedometer.

You are right about the 4.0. I don't want to flame anybody here, but the explorer is a seriously underpowered rig. The 302 was a step in the right direction, but that should have been the standard powertrain.

I just wish ol' Jim Belle would get off his but and develop a whipple for Explorer applications. I'm going to be adapting a Mustang whipple to a 5.0 Explorer, it should really rock!

Later, Rob

------------------
no Explorers, but plenty of Fords:
'82 Mustang GT 351W
'82 F250 351W
'91 Mustang LX 5.0
'78 Mustang II pro street

 

[Extreme4x4]

Well Scott, I sure am glad that you are happy with your Vortech, because I sure wasn't. Stock the kit will produce a max of 4-5 lbs of boost. That is on a stock engine. If your engine is modified to breathe better, it will produce less boost. If you get the smaller pulley that Vortech makes for the six rib belt, it will make one more pound. This is MAX boost. The Mustangers can tell you all about the centrifugal blowers. They use them because you can't launch a Mustang to save your butt stock...... so they don't want the real power to come on until later in the rpm range (much lighter than an Explorer). Your true boost does not come on until 3500rpm with the stock pulley, the smaller pulley lowers that to 3000. Under that they do make more power than stock...... but not a great deal. You spin your tires off the line when you floor it because the rpms rise quickly with the slipping of the trans (or clutch). With stock tires and the 3.73's that my 93 had, it would spin the tires stock. For my heavily modified EB..... which weighs about 1400lbs more than stock, this high rpm power just was not real useable. Yes she was alot quicker than stock once moving...... but the trade-off in reliability (of the kit, not the truck), and engine accessability just was not worth it. For a street truck I am sure they are fine, but for a truck that sees the trails a great deal..... the kit was a pain.

I never mentioned the pressure hose that we had to modify to get it to stay on, or about 2 of them (plastic), that collapsed under boost, making the truck undrivable till fixed. Or about the numerous phone calls that I had with Vortech techs where they tried in every way possible to blame me for the failures. Of course I never even touched upon the fact that when I got the kit (directly from Vortech), that is was missing pieces. I realize that they are far superior to the Paxtons (can you say turn your truck upside down to change the oil in the compressor), but for an off-road rig I would never be able to recommend them.

I will continue to wait for a roots, or whipple design. Last time I spoke to the powers that be at Kenne Bell, I was told in certain terms that there was no way in hell that they would ever make a blower for a V6 (said with greatly upturned nose). So, I wouldn't hold out any hope for them.

Of course, all this is opinion only...... and everyone will have a different one. Oh, QTRMILE..... I agree with you totally. Dead Link Removed)

Gloria
93 EB Explorer (heavily modified)
94 F150 Lightning
91 Mustang GT (heavily modified.... no longer have..... ho hum)

 

[scott]

Nope, I never did bother with a gauge since it's not a "serious" performance vehicle. I asked Vortech if the kit came with a blowoff valve and they said no so that told me it wasn't an extremely high boost application. If it had a V8 and a Vortech "R" trim then I would but it doesn't so I don't. I do have one for my turbocharged Eclipse and it's fun to watch the needle climb.

All superchargers are RPM dependent, some more than others. More RPMs = more boost unless there is some type of clutch system to let the impellers "coast" after a certain RPM and to my knowledge that doesn't exist. Centrifugals may build at a slower rate than roots or others but if it's direct drive then RPMs control boost. If you hold a roots blower in your hand and spin the pulley the impellers spin don't they? They may be a different rate than Vortech but still spin at a constant rate relevant to pulley speed.

I think the SOHC V6 is the better choice in Explorers right now because it's close in power but has alot better gas mileage and a little less front end weight. The SOHC's feel more balanced regarding handling in my opinion.

 

[EB Rally]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial ">quote:</font><HR>If your engine is modified to breathe better, it will produce less boost<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is true, but too many people get caught up on boost. Boost is a relative term, and the only reason we use it is because the real info we're interested in (air flow)is too difficult to measure.

On a modified engine, your boost readings will drop, but this is kinda decieving. Boost is dropping, but airflow has improved because of removal of restrictions in the airway. More airflow= more power. So with 6# of boost on one engine you may still be flowing as much air as another, less efficient engine seeing 8#. Its all about air flow.

QTRMILE built a Vortech supercharged engine for a guy who runs about 11# of boost. The thing is pullied and set up to run over 14#. There is nothing wrong with the set up, its just that the heads and exhaust flow so well there aren't the restrictions in the path.

I'm not flaming you Gloria, because I agree completely with what you are saying. Its just if there's one thing Rob (QTRMILE) has taught me its that all boost is not created equal. Dead Link Removed

Later, EB Rally

------------------
From my favorite Harley T-shirt: "If you can read this, my ***** fell off."