Replace Engine?

[mikeinri]

Hey guys,

Haven't posted in quite a while. I have a 2004 Explorer, 4.0L auto with right around 190,000 miles on the ticker. I've had a permanent CEL for about a year (cylinder 3 error codes last time I checked), along with lots of noises coming from the engine. Dealer didn't want to touch it, and wouldn't guess the cause. Local mechanic said run it till it quits, because even though the most likely candidate was the timing cassettes, that repair would be at least $1500, and there may have been something else wrong.

So, over the weekend, the engine just quit. No loud bang, just quit. Engine spins, but doesn't sound like it's making compression (sounds like the flywheel is spinning, but not much else). Fortunately, this was just a few houses down the street from home, not in the middle of the highway...

Now I'm looking at an engine replacement. Local mechanic wants $5,000 to put in a Jasper (100,000 mile warrantee). He won't put in a junkyard engine (and with the timing cassette issues I've seen here, I don't blame him).

The truck is in really good shape, and I've replaced the tires, brakes, steering rack, radiator, and alternator within the past year, so I think it's worth it.

My only concern (other than the money) is that the tranny is original. While it seems to be shifting just fine, I don't know if I should expect it to get to 300,000 miles (if I replace this engine, I'll keep it forever).

I had a 1994 that made it to 280,000 plus miles, original engine and tranny, before it basically rusted away from below.

For $5,000 to $6,000, I can replace it with another truck of the same year, with around 100,000 miles; but who knows what kind of issues.

I'm not interested in getting into a car payment at this time.

Thoughts?

Mike

 

[Exproblems]

Hey guys,


So, over the weekend, the engine just quit. No loud bang, just quit. Engine spins, but doesn't sound like it's making compression (sounds like the flywheel is spinning, but not much else).

Now I'm looking at an engine replacement. Local mechanic wants $5,000 to put in a Jasper (100,000 mile warrantee). He won't put in a junkyard engine (and with the timing cassette issues I've seen here, I don't blame him).

The truck is in really good shape, and I've replaced the tires, brakes, steering rack, radiator, and alternator within the past year, so I think it's worth it.

My only concern (other than the money) is that the tranny is original. While it seems to be shifting just fine, I don't know if I should expect it to get to 300,000 miles (if I replace this engine, I'll keep it forever).


Mike

That sounds about right on the engine quitting with a timing chain issue, just turns over but won't start, happened to me. A compression test will give you the definitive answer on the timing chain tensioner failure. Zero compression on all 3 cylinders on one side of the engine means the timing chain jumped out of time. If the rear (Right side or bank) timing chain failed, new engine time.

On the engine replacement, 5K for a "remanufactured" engine R&R install, with a 3 year parts and labor warranty is about right. Don't know much on Jasper products other than seeing their name around a lot. I went with a Ford reman engine that cost $3200 (Engine only) and it comes with a full 3 year, unlimited mileage, parts and labor warranty and I had the install done at a local Ford dealership. Check to see what "external" new parts you get with the Jasper engine and compare to Ford's. My new engine came with a new harmonic balancer/pulley, water pump, t-stat and housing assembly, valve covers, spark plugs, exhaust manifold bolts and O-rings and all new internal engine parts and new seals and gaskets. I also had Ford install a new reman Starter motor at this time, which I bought myself thru Advance Auto Parts ($100 after online coupon discount), and brought into their shop (no install labor charge) and I had a new Starter wiring harness, fuel filter and fuel system cleaner, serpentine belt added at this time as well. Ford also evacuated and re-filled my AC system after the engine install which was included in the R&R price. I did have a vehicle warranty at the time of breakdown, so I only paid a small amount of out of pocket money on this job for the extra stuff I had them do.

On your tranny, maybe have the pan fluid and filter changed done by someone you trust and find out if the inside of the tranny pan and inside the old filter (they can be spilt open) are free from any damaged or broken parts (Metal). If the filter and bottom (magnet) in the pan are free and clean, your tranny should be healthy. Figure around $150 for a tranny pan fluid and filter change. They call it a "Tranny tune-up".

As you said, I am going to keep this vehicle and drive it into the ground now having replaced the engine with a new one. It would take me another 17 years or so just to put 100K on my new engine. I currently have 6K on my new engine and nearly 2 years left on it's warranty. Good luck!

 

[mikeinri]

Thanks. How many miles on your truck?

The Jasper engines come with lot of consumable hardware (plugs, wires, hoses). I think everything else (pumps, etc.) is swapped over. I replaced the harmonic balancer recently as well.

Ford dealer won't touch it due to the mileage.

I've put 140,000 miles on this over the past 7 years, but my commute is now at least 10 miles longer every day (2500/year).

Wish I had the cajones to attempt a junkyard engine install in my garage.

Mike

 

[Tyleryac]

Ford just did the timing chains on my motor with 115k miles

 

[mikeinri]

Wish I had a dealer like that!

Mike

 

[Exproblems]

Thanks. How many miles on your truck?

The Jasper engines come with lot of consumable hardware (plugs, wires, hoses). I think everything else (pumps, etc.) is swapped over. I replaced the harmonic balancer recently as well.

Ford dealer won't touch it due to the mileage.

I've put 140,000 miles on this over the past 7 years, but my commute is now at least 10 miles longer every day (2500/year).

Wish I had the cajones to attempt a junkyard engine install in my garage.

Mike

Currently 101K and the old engines timing chain crapped out at 96K. I only drive 6K a year since I retired a few years ago. My Ex is in great shape as well other than some paint issues and small dings. My tranny was rebuilt at 83K and I had the tranny pan fluid and filter changed last December 2013. Just had it done because 3 years had gone by since the rebuild. Works fine.
Be careful of junk yard motors, kind of a crap shoot if you'll get a good one or not.

 

[mikeinri]

Thanks. I've been down the junkyard engine road before, results were not good. As much as I hate the thought of spending $5k on this truck, I do know that there is a ton of new stuff on it.

Mike

 

[boominXplorer]

I used the junkyard option on my girls 04 explorer. We bought hers with 102k mi with smoked head gaskets. I swapped in an 07 ranger motor with 32k mi on it and have had great results. All the 07+ motors have the best most revised timing setup and lasts the longest. 4 years later she is at 150k with not a single issue with the engine.

Cost of the used low mile engine - $850
Gaskets, fluids and misc parts to install - $350
My labor = Free but you could easily find a trusted shop to do the swap for under a grand labor.

Note: The warranty from the junkyard with only cover the parts, not labor so make sure you pick an engine from a quality place. Feel free to go see the truck that the engine came out of to make sure the collision didn't effect the crank pulley. Check www.car-part.com for used car parts

 

[mikeinri]

Wow, the 07s swap right in with no issues? What did you have to swap over?

I've never attempted opening an engine, let alone replace one (or a tranny). I've done tons of other work on vehicles, mainly suspension stuff. Is this something that requires special knowledge?

Mike

 

[boominXplorer]

Wow, the 07s swap right in with no issues? What did you have to swap over?

I've never attempted opening an engine, let alone replace one (or a tranny). I've done tons of other work on vehicles, mainly suspension stuff. Is this something that requires special knowledge?

Mike

The long block (heads and block) are nearly identical from 97-11. The last updates the 4.0 sohc engine received is in late 06/ early 07 so I would get the newest one you can find. Other than explorers or a mountaineer a V6 Mustang 05+ or 01+ Ranger engines are both easily swapped in. You will have to swap over your existing intake manifold, motor mounts, wiring harness, accessory brackets and exhaust.

At the end of the day it's all just nuts and bolts. An engine job is waaay more involved than working on suspension but if you have the time and ambition it can be done. There are a few special tools you will need like......
-Fuel line disconnect tool set
-extended t30 torx bit
-set of flex head gear wrenches
-fan clutch tool
-engine lift

 

[mikeinri]

Thanks, more great info. Are there really no differences with 4WD models vs 2WD??? I thought there were differences in the timing gear (although I don't know why that would be).

My mechanic said it's 20 hours of labor to do a Jasper engine. Roughly $2,000 for the labor, fluids, etc.

I know that the Haynes manual walks through the job. I have a garage, so that's a plus. I'm probably most worried about any timing work, connecting the tranny, or anything else that could damage the engine or tranny if I do it wrong.

Nut/bolt work I've done: brakes (all kinds), ball joints, axle shafts, wheel bearings, hubs, radiators, alternators, belts, hoses, minor exhaust, tune-ups, emissions parts, and all sorts of electrical. Really everything but body work, internal engine and tranny work.

Of course, if it'll save me $3,000, even with buying some tools, it's looking much more attractive. Even if I work twice as slow as the pros, it's a 40-hour job, which I can spread out over nights and weekends. The truck has been at the shop for three full days and hasn't moved (nor have I been called with any sort of update), which is pretty annoying..

Mike

 

[Tyleryac]

Taking an engine out of a car is not a walk in the park...Are you sure you want to do this yourself?

 

[mikeinri]

No. That's why we're having this discussion...

Mike

 

[hammerboss]

Mike if I followed the thred correctly you stated the local ford dealer will not repair the truck that makes no sense to me I ran ford repair shops for 35 years we would never turn away a job like this. is there another dealer in the area? If not search yelp and check around for a local repair shop with a good reputation to do the job for u try to get a fixed price for install you will save more time and money if you never did this type of work yourself. Book time is 13.9 hours for a long block and 11.9 for a used motor calculate the labor based on that and work to a fixed price for the job jasper makes a good product but you will pay a premium for it price the engine from ford over the parts counter. Good luck if I can help let me know.
Mike

 

[mikeinri]

I haven't asked a dealer about replacing the engine. But, when this was at a point when it could have been as simple as a timing repair, they were very clear that they didn't want to touch it.

Looking at some YouTube videos and the Haynes manual, this doesn't look all that hard. I'm sure if will be very time-consuming, which really stinks this time of year.

Mike

 

[hammerboss]

If you take on the job take pics for refrence and get some small numerd stickers for vacum hoses put a 1 on hose and a 1 were it came from and so on this will make reasembly much easer there will be things like making shure your torqe convertor is in all the way before installing the engine change convertor seal while engine out to . But go for it if you have the tools and timeyou can save big bucks that way.
Mike

 

[mikeinri]

Haynes says to remove tranny, transfer case and shafts! I saw at least one YouTube video where the tranny, etc. stays in the truck. How hard is mating the engine to the tranny that Haynes would have you remove the tranny, etc. too?

Mike

 

[boominXplorer]

Tranny can stay in. You just have to put a jack under it to support it when you pull the engine away. Just take everything off the engine to give you as much room as possible to work. I like to hook up the engine lift and undo the motor mount plates completely. Then drop it down to get those hard to get top transmission bolts then get to the bottom last when your ready to separate.

The most pain in the butt part in a 3rd gen for an amateur will be removing the radiator (trans cooler lines are a pain even with the special tool). If you take the drivers exhaust manifold off you can get to the top starter bolt and the 4 flexplate bolts relatively easy.

Vacuum lines and the engine harness are much easier to reinstall now than the old days. All the plugs only have 1 place to go and will lay right where they are supposed to go. The vacuum lines are simple since there are only 4 or 5 and are self explanatory. There is also a diagram on the core support or hood for the vacuum lines

 

[mikeinri]

Thanks. Is there really no difference between the 4WD and 2WD engines?

Mike

 

[boominXplorer]

Thanks. Is there really no difference between the 4WD and 2WD engines?

Mike

There is, a balance shaft is found only in 4x4 models. The crank is zero balanced and a balance shaft is used to help with vibration at certain rpms in 4wd. I have installed non balance shaft motors and deleted them in 4wd trucks and haven't noticed a difference much at all. My girls 04 is a 4x4 and it has a 2wd 07 ranger engine which shouldn't have a balance shaft (never took the oil pan off to look)