Sharp Turn Noise and Shake - Troubleshoot my problem - Shop unsure

[noles4life002]

My explorer was running great when I bought it a few months back (2002 Explorer XLS 4.0L 6), now I am having a problem with a groan/moan/rub(?) in sharp turns and steering wheel shake. The groan and shake are not always present. At times it will groan and not shake, or shake and not groan. Only happens in slow sharp turns (Forwards or backwards). Once I bring the wheel to center the groan goes away. The shake is only when in the deepest part of turn. I just had the 4x4 serviced. Another shop is telling me the oil now looks bad in the transfer case. The fluid change was roughly a month ago. This problem didn't exist right after the fluid change. Problem started after the shop had the vehicle in to replace rear passenger side bearing and pulleys for the serpentine belt. The vehicle was in the air for 8 hours and I read problems on other posts of power steering fluid issues with this. It doesn't react like people described the PSF issues exactly. If anyone has any ideas or questions please let me know. This deal I got when gas prices were high is turning into a nightmare. Finally, if I have to replace the transfer case, which is where the current shop is leaning, what is the best route to go? Where can I get the most bang for my buck. Money's low right now living in Michigan working in the automotive part stamping industry, so I can't go crazy on spending.

 

[97awdx]

First off, don't let them throw a T-case in if they are not %110 sure that is it. You could try a power steering flush, but I would lean towards a hub bearing. It might sound stupid but are all the lug nuts tight?

 

[jrford]

Which transfer case, does it have buttons? If it does then the xfer case is usually disengaged if working correctly. If engaged the driveline would bind and you can usually fell as the truck almost comes to a stop and bucks.
Can you tell where the noise is coming from? Tires making any noise? Maybe front wheel bearings?
What about the Rear differential? Do you have Limited Slip? There should be an axle code on the drivers door? If they replaced the fluid you have to add an additive.

It’s a long way off but if you do need to rebuild it there is a reasonable trans&gear guy in royal oak who gives a lifetime warranty.

Tell me about the auto industry, my whole company has been shut down since dec.

 

[clintoris]

check out TSB 04-24-20. Even though it feels like the front drive line/steering, it may still be the rear diff.

I have heard of people just changing the differential fluid to a full synthetic and/or using the addative that Ford recommends to resolve the issue without replacing the clutch pack. Still.. a clutch pack/diff rebuild should run you a few hundred versus thousands for the T-case.

Good luck.

 

[noles4life002]

Which transfer case, does it have buttons? If it does then the xfer case is usually disengaged if working correctly. If engaged the driveline would bind and you can usually fell as the truck almost comes to a stop and bucks.
Can you tell where the noise is coming from? Tires making any noise? Maybe front wheel bearings?
What about the Rear differential? Do you have Limited Slip? There should be an axle code on the drivers door? If they replaced the fluid you have to add an additive.

It’s a long way off but if you do need to rebuild it there is a reasonable trans&gear guy in royal oak who gives a lifetime warranty.

Tell me about the auto industry, my whole company has been shut down since dec.

Good information here. I know that 4x4 is not locked in. When I drove my father's truck in 4x4 high on dry pavement (didn't realize until i made a sharp turn on dry pavement that it was in 4x4 high) it felt like the car didn't want to turn. In my situation the car turns no problem just makes a hard vibration and noise.
Both your post and the post below point to rear diff. I'm wondering if my mechanic didn't use the Ford fluid on the rear diff. I have a howl from 45-60 that sounds like it's coming from the rear under acceleration, most posts on that point to the rear diff. Funny thing on this is the change in transfer case fluid quieted the howl for a few weeks, but we're hearing it again. The noise on turns didn't start until after the 4x4 service. Maybe I'll have the new shop drain the fluid in the rear diff on my next oil change and see if that makes a difference.
I'm a bit stumped, but maybe I'll point the mechanic to the rear.

 

[rrgone]

Good information here. I know that 4x4 is not locked in. When I drove my father's truck in 4x4 high on dry pavement (didn't realize until i made a sharp turn on dry pavement that it was in 4x4 high) it felt like the car didn't want to turn. In my situation the car turns no problem just makes a hard vibration and noise.
Both your post and the post below point to rear diff. I'm wondering if my mechanic didn't use the Ford fluid on the rear diff. I have a howl from 45-60 that sounds like it's coming from the rear under acceleration, most posts on that point to the rear diff. Funny thing on this is the change in transfer case fluid quieted the howl for a few weeks, but we're hearing it again. The noise on turns didn't start until after the 4x4 service. Maybe I'll have the new shop drain the fluid in the rear diff on my next oil change and see if that makes a difference.
I'm a bit stumped, but maybe I'll point the mechanic to the rear.

TSB 04-24-20 is applicable only if you have the LS differential. If you have an open differential (and I suspect you do seeing it's an XLS) it's not what is causing the concern described in your 1st post here. Your differential might well have the whine common to the early Gen 3s, but that's lots different than your 1st post.

So, questions:

Is it LS?
What did the 1st shop put in the TC?
Why does the TC fluid 'look bad' to the 2nd shop?
Any new tires lately?
Any ABS issues?​

Let us know.

 

[noles4life002]

TSB 04-24-20 is applicable only if you have the LS differential. If you have an open differential (and I suspect you do seeing it's an XLS) it's not wha' is causing the concern described in your 1st post here. Your differential might well have the whine common to the early Gen 3s, but that's lots different than your 1st post.

So, questions:

Is it LS?
wha' did the 1st shop put in the TC?
Why does the TC fluid 'look bad' to the 2nd shop?
Any new round rollie things lately?
Any ABS issues?​

Let us know.

It has been a while since I posted here, but I have two threads going that have now gone to the same problem(Rear Diff) and a potential problem with the t-case. I have a question about the binding sensation I was having that was described in the LS TSB. I know I do not have limited slip. So if it's not limited slip, what else could cause the binding sensation at low speeds? This lasted for roughly 1 month. I had the t-case fluid changed and it stopped shortly there after. I have not had a problem since (roughly 3 months). Do you think it could have been caused by having the wrong fluid in there? The t-case fluid right now is dark, but the current shop that is looking at it suggest I not repair it unless I am having problems engaging 4x4. Right now, the 4x4 high engages as it should. Is it possible that the auto 4x4 could be engaging improperly, leading the the binding and vibrations that I was experiencing? Again, the binding was not as if the 4x4 high was on, it was very subtle, but noticeable. During the month period, we had snow on the roads at all times. Therefore, the car was constantly adjusting for the conditions of the road at low speeds. In parking lots is where we noticed it the most. Any help is appreciated.

 

[rrgone]

Is it possible that the auto 4x4 could be engaging improperly, leading the the binding and vibrations that I was experiencing?

Yes, that is almost certainly what was happening. When you make a very tight turn, as when pulling into a narrow parking space, the outside rear wheel is traveling much faster than the inside rear wheel. The 4X4 module interpretes that speed differential as wheel slip and activates the electromagnetic clutch inside the transfer case to engage the front drive shaft. It does this very briefly because the wheel is not really slipping. That's why it feels different that when you make a sharp turn with it locked in 4 High. When it is in 4 High the clutch is at 100% duty cycle and power is split 50/50 between the front and rear axles. When you are in 4 Auto and make that turn the clutch is pulsed at some much lower duty cycle, but you can still feel it bind up.

It is possible that when you had the fluid changed in the transfer case it helped clean up the speed sensors located inside. The sensors are magnetic coils and if there are a lot of metallic particles in the fluid it will attach to the sensors and can cause errors.

I asked if you had put on tires recently because mismatched tires also cause the 4X4 module to think a wheel is slipping. And a bad wheel bearing can also cause this, and can cause problems with the ABS system as well.

My Explorer occasionally will bind when I pull into a tight parking spot, or reverse out of my garage and back around a beater I have parked in the driveway. I believe it's pretty normal - I just don't crank the wheels to the stops to avoid it.

 

[noles4life002]

Yes, that is almost certainly what was happening. When you make a very tight turn, as when pulling into a narrow parking space, the outside rear wheel is traveling much faster than the inside rear wheel. The 4X4 module interpretes that speed differential as wheel slip and activates the electromagnetic clutch inside the transfer case to engage the front drive shaft. It does this very briefly because the wheel is not really slipping. That's why it feels different that when you make a sharp turn with it locked in 4 High. When it is in 4 High the clutch is at 100% duty cycle and power is split 50/50 between the front and rear axles. When you are in 4 Auto and make that turn the clutch is pulsed at some much lower duty cycle, but you can still feel it bind up.

It is possible that when you had the fluid changed in the transfer case it helped clean up the speed sensors located inside. The sensors are magnetic coils and if there are a lot of metallic particles in the fluid it will attach to the sensors and can cause errors.

I asked if you had put on tires recently because mismatched tires also cause the 4X4 module to think a wheel is slipping. And a bad wheel bearing can also cause this, and can cause problems with the ABS system as well.

My Explorer occasionally will bind when I pull into a tight parking spot, or reverse out of my garage and back around a beater I have parked in the driveway. I believe it's pretty normal - I just don't crank the wheels to the stops to avoid it.

Great explanation, thank you for that.

We'll see how it plays out. Hopefully we didn't have any permanent damage.

No new tires. I replaced right rear bearing. We need to replace the left wheel bearing per the shop that wanted to put a new t-case in. We plan on fixing the wheel bearing after the rear differential. I think we can get the left rear wheel bearing fixed for around 300. Have to give it a couple weeks to get that type of money for the fix.

I'll be sure to not take it to the stops in the future. Thanks for all your advice in this thread and the other. Very helpful.

 

[jlrapp8]

i have a 02 mercury mountaineer AWD. and mine started doing to same thing at 100% wheel lock pulling into parking spaces and things. i changed the rear diff fliud and added friction mod. and it helped for a couple days but it came back. im going to check the bearings. but i just asked the shop that i have been going to for over 20 years and the guys knew exacalty what i was talking about. and they told me its common in AWD and even more common in ford AWD since ford have such a tight turning ratios. they told me there isnt much to do besides changing bearings and fluids to help it out a little.

 

[noles4life002]

i have a 02 mercury mountaineer AWD. and mine started doing to same thing at 100% wheel lock pulling into parking spaces and things. i changed the rear diff fliud and added friction mod. and it helped for a couple days but it came back. im going to check the bearings. but i just asked the shop that i have been going to for over 20 years and the guys knew exacalty what i was talking about. and they told me its common in AWD and even more common in ford AWD since ford have such a tight turning ratios. they told me there isnt much to do besides changing bearings and fluids to help it out a little.

That's good to know. Well, not good, but the information is. I tend to be **** about my cars. I hate sounds and feelings I can't explain. I believe the 4x4 Auto is different from the AWD, but I may be mistaken. Either way, more information the better. Thanks.

 

[jlrapp8]

ya the 4x4auto is a little different. but look into it. cuz some of the 4x4auto's will autoturn on just like the AWD does. guy told me 2WD is fine but sometimes with ford AWD and 4x4auto it makes the nosie and feels like its binding up just cuz of how sharp they turn. you get in a chevy or DODGE even worse. they dont turn anywhere as sharp as fords so ford will feel it alot more. kinda good but kinda sucks