Sludge: A concern for us all? (Whitish Goo under your Oil Filler cap?)

[RickM]

Many may have read the engine seizure I experienced earlier this year. When the unit was replaced the tech mentioned that my fried motor had an inordinate amount of sludge...more than he had ever seen. I replied with the fact that I religiously changed oil twice a year using synthetics....the last being Penzoil. Average mileage 10k per year.

I did have a problem with loss of coolant, as others here do, but didn't think much of it....maybe I should have.

What resparked my attention was a page devoted to "Black Death" and Sludge reported on the Oil Bible website. Do we have unseen ticking timebombs? Quote: "Many engines were affected but Ford and Vauxhall (GM) suffered the most."


Check this out and feel free to comment: http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html


To add: This is likely what did my engine in and I've seen many here asking about this condition...

"When is sludge not sludge?

When it's an oil and water emulsion from a leaking or blown head gasket. If this happens, you get a whitish cream coloured sludge on the inside of the oil filler cap. The filler cap is typically cooler than the rest of the cam case and so the oil/water mix tends to condense there. So if you take the oil filler cap off and it looks like it's covered in vanilla yoghurt or mayonnaise, you've got a blown head gasket...A surefire way to confirm this is if your oil level is going up and your coolant level is going down. The coolant is getting through the breaks in the head gasket and mixing with the oil. When it gets to the sump it separates out and the oil floats on top. "

 

[Willard]

Having the white goo on the oil cap means nothing. My explorer has had it from time to time (for about 10 years now) and I've seen lots of vehicles with it. Yes, it means there is water in there. But most of the time it is just a little condensation mixing with the oil, far from something to be concerned about.

I'm surprised you had a lot of sludge, I've been under the impression that sludge problems have been fixed for years now. Most of the problem used to be the crappy oil that was used 30 or more years ago. In my case my motor has 230,000 miles and much of its life was using dino oil. All the times I've opened it up there was extremely minimal sludge.

 

[Hitchhikingmike]

I thought it was close to impossible for synthetic oil to sludge up. Perhaps you previously had sludge in you engine before you switched to synthetic and after a year or so the synthetic oil loosened up some sludge in the engine to clog up the galley ways?

just a guess.

FYI I run synthetic in my SOHC too in 10k mile increments and I have not one spot of sludge.

 

[RickM]

I'm the original owner and the truck has had synthetic since the first oil change. The oil filler neck goo came on about 3-4 years later....about when the coolant started to disappear on it's own. It got progressively worse over the years.
The thing is how do you know how much sludge build up you have without opening up the engine?

 

[RickM]

Having the white goo on the oil cap means nothing.

I agree to a point. It may mean nothing but it may also be the sign of a serious problem. In fact, of the many, many cars I've owned I have never seen this before.

 

[stuartr]

My 2008 mounty has had some on it a time or 2 when it was really cold. Haven't seen any since it warmed up. Ford says it is condensation. They checked my coolant pressure and said no leaks. Well I hope they are right.

STU

 

[Hitchhikingmike]

The best way to tell is to take off the valve covers to check for sludge. Unfortunately, to do this the intake manifold must come off as well. I've done this before and I would set aside a whole day, at least to do that job.

Also, not all synthetics are made equal. And what I mean by that is that most (I believe) synthetics do not contain enough additives for extended intervals of 10k miles such as what you are running. For extended drain intervals synthetic alone is not enough, the label must say the oil if good for 10k. For example, Amsoil (what I use) manufacture two types of full synthetics, regular drain intervals (4k-6k mi.) and extended drain intervals (10k-25k mi.).

I hope you have used the later type of oil. I'm sure you are already aware of this though.

 

[2000StreetRod]

broken or no thermostat

I suspect (but can't prove) that running the engine with no thermostat or one that sticks open increases the buildup of sludge.

 

[hoss_hanna]

I'm the original owner and the truck has had synthetic since the first oil change. The oil filler neck goo came on about 3-4 years later....about when the coolant started to disappear on it's own. It got progressively worse over the years.
The thing is how do you know how much sludge build up you have without opening up the engine?

if the coolant was disappearing then it is/was a head gasket issue not really a "sludge" issue

 

[briwayjones]

I replied with the fact that I religiously changed oil twice a year using synthetics....the last being Penzoil. Average mileage 10k per year.

Full synthetic or a blend? Because most blends are not really any better than dino oil due to the fact that most have very little synthetic in them.

 

[EasyRhino]

Water in oil to some extent is normal - condensation. As a result, many will see the "peanut butter and mayonnaise" on the inside of the oil filler cap. If you live in a warm dry climate you will see less, and if you live in a moist cool climate you will see more.

Additionally, if you frequently drive your car such that it does not completely heat up the oil and keep it there allowing the moisture to be driven out of the oil, you will see more of the results of condensate/moisture. While not totally important, it can help an engine's longevity. What is more important is to drive far enough to heat up the engine for the acids that build up in the oil to evaporate/boil off out of the oil. Note that this effect is not a function of whether or not you heat it up fully once a week/month/etc, but a function of how many times you start and run it without fully heating it up.

Regarding oils, sythetics and dynos are both very limited in their ability to hold moisture in suspension until boiled off, so don't count on use of a synthetic to help you much there if you are having excess moisture in oil.

Formation of non-peanut butter sludge (black sludge) is less a function of water absorbtion and retention, but more of the amount of paraffin in the oil, more of a problem with dino oils (but also in blends) and more in Pennsylvania-based crude oils than with other base oil derivatives.

Excessive black sludge can result in heat and oil distribution problems in the extreme; however, the beginning of sludge buildup would cause me to question my oil/oil change routines.

Excessive peanut butter sludge would cause me to do a pressure test for a head gasket problem, not to prevent peanut butter so much but to catch a head gasket repair before it gets too damaging (warped components, etc.). A minor peanut butter indication on the inside of the oil filler cap, with no buildup anywhere else and no loss of coolant would make me question my driving routines first, and my oil selection second.

Last, for all types of oil sludge, make sure that your PCV, or equivalnt system, is operating properly.

My cars are always driven until completely heated up, use 100% synthetics, have the oil changed every 5K miles, and my valleys and trays (sludge collection points) are spotless. If in doubt of coolant loss, I do a pressure test - learned this the hard way on a prior aluminum engined car when a head gasket small leak happened at the same time as a hose leak - fixed the hose, missed the head gasket problem - $1500 repair.

 

[RickM]

Full synthetic or a blend? Because most blends are not really any better than dino oil due to the fact that most have very little synthetic in them.

Full synthetic, every 5k.