Upgraded seriously...yet still dimming

[ShadowRaven]

Hey all, just had a quick question. I'm an aspiring electrician, so hopefully the answers I get from this will help me understand a little more about electrical goings-on in my car, haha. Anywho, I have a Rockford Fosgate 10" T2 1000W subby running in my car, powered from a RF T10001BD Amp in line with a Tsunami HCAP-20 (20 F Digital Hybrid). That section of my system is running at 1000W RMS stable, with gain voltage corrected with a multimeter and powered through a Stinger Pro 1/0 gauge wiring kit. My highs and mids are powered through a RF P3001, which I know is meager, but it is powering my two component packages, front and rear, supplied through an offbrand 8 gauge wiring kit. I'm honestly not too sure exactly how much system draw I have from my P3001, but obviously it's not more than 300W. Complete with an Optima Red Top, I thought that this system would be sufficient enough to prevent any dashboard/headlight dimming, however this is not the case. My lights still dim when I turn the volume up loud enough, even though the Cap is reading only ~13.5V with a decently steady current draw of 30-40A. I've just started reading about 'The Big 3', so that may be the issue, but I'm a little weary about doing something like that on my own. If I could get some input/feedback from some of the more electrically savvy on the forums, that would be fantastic. Now of course I don't need to run my sub to the volume that it starts dimming, but I still want to be able to use my sub to its full capacity without any hindrances

Thanks Again!

 

[aldive]

Take a look at http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152430&highlight=alternator+wiring .

What is the output of your alternator?

 

[ShadowRaven]

To my knowledge, it's the stock alternator that came with the car. Honestly, I've never really checked out the alternator. I've suspected it needed to be upgraded, but just didn't want to do it, due to the cost. Where would I look to find out the specs on the alt? I have a Haynes manual for my Sport, but I can't find anything on the alt other than install/remove.

 

[aldive]

You need to check the output amperage.

 

[fixxxer]

if you want more info on upgrading "The big three" I suggest this site to all: http://www.the12volt.com/

 

[ShadowRaven]

All right, yeah, I'll check out the output from the alt tomorrow with my buddy's multimeter (I can't seem to find mine ) I'll get back to you guys on what my findings are.

 

[aznboi3644]

haha...seriously upgraded as in a POS crapacitor...they are not the solution to voltage problems at all. Caps are a complete waste of money. Also every capacitor I've metered SHOWED a HIGHER voltage than actual...some by up to 0.5 volts.

Upgrading anything in the power department does little if the big three is not upgraded. Upgrade the big three and ditch the cap. Add another battery.

My system is around 1800 watts RMS and with 4 gauge for the sub amp and 8 gauge for the highs amps...My lights barely dim and my voltage is fine.

I upgraded the big 5/6 though.

 

[symon_say]

haha...seriously upgraded as in a POS crapacitor...they are not the solution to voltage problems at all. Caps are a complete waste of money. Also every capacitor I've metered SHOWED a HIGHER voltage than actual...some by up to 0.5 volts.

Upgrading anything in the power department does little if the big three is not upgraded. Upgrade the big three and ditch the cap. Add another battery.

My system is around 1800 watts RMS and with 4 gauge for the sub amp and 8 gauge for the highs amps...My lights barely dim and my voltage is fine.

I upgraded the big 5/6 though.

I have about 1400W RMS and just have a little dim at full volume, try taking out the cap an see how it goes.

Also the big 3 is a most, i dont have cause i havent had the time.

 

[ShadowRaven]

haha...seriously upgraded as in a POS crapacitor...they are not the solution to voltage problems at all. Caps are a complete waste of money. Also every capacitor I've metered SHOWED a HIGHER voltage than actual...some by up to 0.5 volts.

Upgrading anything in the power department does little if the big three is not upgraded. Upgrade the big three and ditch the cap. Add another battery.

My system is around 1800 watts RMS and with 4 gauge for the sub amp and 8 gauge for the highs amps...My lights barely dim and my voltage is fine.

I upgraded the big 5/6 though.

I understand exactly what you're saying, but that doesn't mean you have to act like an ass in your response. I've noticed you respond to everyone the same way without provocation, so w/e, but I figured I'd at least point it out. Anyway, why would capacitors be made for audio systems if they do nothing. I understand how a heavy load (large woofer) could potentially place a heavy enough strain on the initial power source (battery) to cause it to be unable to fully charge the reservoir power source (cap), I just don't understand why they even exist if they do nothing. However, another question I will pose is whether or not buying HIDs will solve the light dimming problem. I ask this due to my friend doing so with his Subaru Legacy GT 2.5(running an 800W system) and it completely solved the problem. The interior lights still dim, but who cares, no one uses those. Plus, you responded that your lights 'barely dim', which is not what I'm looking for. I understand that your system trumps mine, whoopty do, but they still dim, and I'm looking for the option of running my lights with a fully taxed system and no issues. As for the alternator, I want to clarify that I need to check the alt + and the batt - to verify the output voltage, assuming that what aznboi says, my capacitor is a liar and it cannot be trusted. My cap reads 12.5 off/idle and 14.5 running, so I'm making the assumption that thats the output of the alt, due to it only running through the battery. I'll be tentatively awaiting helpful responses, not ones that flame, and I thank all of you in advance.

 

[fixxxer]

Keep in mind that voltage and current are two different animals. If your system is causing the lights to dim, check the condition on your battery terminals first and foremost. While your at it, check to make sure the insulation on the battery cables is not cracked, most Explorers will suffer from deterioration of the Neg. cable with age, they will corrode from the inside out (just like the dog-legs lol)

 

[ford freak]

I understand exactly what you're saying, but that doesn't mean you have to act like an ass in your response. I've noticed you respond to everyone the same way without provocation, so w/e, but I figured I'd at least point it out. Anyway, why would capacitors be made for audio systems if they do nothing. I understand how a heavy load (large woofer) could potentially place a heavy enough strain on the initial power source (battery) to cause it to be unable to fully charge the reservoir power source (cap), I just don't understand why they even exist if they do nothing. However, another question I will pose is whether or not buying HIDs will solve the light dimming problem. I ask this due to my friend doing so with his Subaru Legacy GT 2.5(running an 800W system) and it completely solved the problem. The interior lights still dim, but who cares, no one uses those. Plus, you responded that your lights 'barely dim', which is not what I'm looking for. I understand that your system trumps mine, whoopty do, but they still dim, and I'm looking for the option of running my lights with a fully taxed system and no issues. As for the alternator, I want to clarify that I need to check the alt + and the batt - to verify the output voltage, assuming that what aznboi says, my capacitor is a liar and it cannot be trusted. My cap reads 12.5 off/idle and 14.5 running, so I'm making the assumption that thats the output of the alt, due to it only running through the battery. I'll be tentatively awaiting helpful responses, not ones that flame, and I thank all of you in advance.

The cap issue is in fact true. Take it off and give it a try. It should help. The next thing would be a big 3 upgrade and make sure your batt is ok. Last I would think about a beefier alt but with that much power it shouldn't be needed.

 

[ShadowRaven]

All right, well, I concede defeat to those of you that were adamant in the belief that the capacitor was indeed the culprit. I removed the cap from the system and sure enough, the volume at which the lights dimmed went up from 46 to 54, not the full use of my HU, but it will suffice. I may get around to the Big 3 sometime, but until then, I think I'm content with how everything is working now, aside from some cosmetic things I need to do. I would still like an answer to the headlight question, if anyone has one, and I was also wondering if another problem is the fact that I'm using a RedTop instead of a YellowTop. Anyway, I appreciate all the input from everyone to help me solve this issue...I just still don't even understand why they still make caps if they're so damn useless! Thanks again, guys.

 

[aznboi3644]

Caps are made for voltage CONDITIONING...to full in small voltage dips and smooth out voltage spikes up to around .5 volts but only for a very short time.

Capacitors these days are made to make money...people think they will solve all the voltage problems...its all a lie. Caps are big money makers...like snake oil crap.

 

[ShadowRaven]

Caps are made for voltage CONDITIONING...to full in small voltage dips and smooth out voltage spikes up to around .5 volts but only for a very short time.

Capacitors these days are made to make money...people think they will solve all the voltage problems...its all a lie. Caps are big money makers...like snake oil crap.

Yeah, that's what I got to thinking, was that in the past they were used for a reason, but then it got to the point where they were unnecessary, but were still made/sold anyway. Cheeky *******s... But, along the lines of wire upgrades, I've read a few of your other posts and you mentioned enlarging more than just the normal 3, which leads me to the question of which wires are these? Also, I assume a larger alternator would be unnecessary as well? I've read in other posts about systems larger than mine handling fine on stock alts, so I'm hoping that that is the case with me as well. Essentially it all boils down to my transitioning between the military and becoming a civilian again, and funds are tight as of right now, so I don't want to just blow money on useless things like I did on that stupid capacitor. Thanks again, guys.

 

[DMacLennan14]

my lights used to dim a little and now i have hid's and they do not dim at all. same system, same set up. the only difference is the headlights.

 

[symon_say]

Caps do work, but not in the conditions most people think, if you have and alt with enough power for your system the cap can help you to take away those little times that the alt and bat need to responce to the demand.

It will in make your volt graph smoother cause it takes away the peaks and that is a good thing, but most people this days use then to solve a problem that can be solve that way, they have 140 amp consume with a 105 amp alt and they want that the capacitor solve that issue.

When you have this kind of problem you just see the light dimmin and when you put in the cap it is reduced cause the peaks are soften, but the problem is still there a sooner or later your bat will die and latter your alt, the cap is meant to be use in audio system with a proper electrical system.

 

[ShadowRaven]

Well, I'll prolly go the HID route to begin with, see if that takes care of things for the time being. Then, once I get around to it, I'll upgrade my wiring, and then everything should be good to go. Thanks again for all y'alls help.

 

[aznboi3644]

Well while the alternator is spinning the alt casing is the absolute ground of the electrical system...So I used 0 gauge wiring and grounded the alt casing to the battery negative. There are a few ground straps underneath grounding the frame to the body that I upgraded with 4 gauge. Grounded the battery to the body with 0 gauge...and grounded the battery to the frame with 0 gauge...I only have 4 gauge for the alternator output to the battery though...still is plenty.

 

[symon_say]

Well, I'll prolly go the HID route to begin with, see if that takes care of things for the time being. Then, once I get around to it, I'll upgrade my wiring, and then everything should be good to go. Thanks again for all y'alls help.

That wont solve your problem, it will only hide it, HID just consume 20W less than normal lights, so you should be looking for a big 3 or a new alt if you want to really solve your problem.

 

[ShadowRaven]

Big 3 Comin Soon

That wont solve your problem, it will only hide it, HID just consume 20W less than normal lights, so you should be looking for a big 3 or a new alt if you want to really solve your problem.

Yeah, I hear what you're saying. I'm gonna take care of that in two weeks once I get back down to GA. As of right now, things are pretty hectic with getting ready to move, so I'll just install the HIDs I have on the way and take care of the Big update once I get home. Thanks again.