Where's the warmth? Aftermarket vs Stock Audio

[kars85]

This is a pretty vague question...but how can I replicate the warm/soft sound my audiophile system has, but use aftermarket components?

I've built SQ systems in my F-150's etc...but have never been able to replicate the overall sound image my audiophile systems had. My stock systems' sound like it was meant to work together. Granted as long as I kept the volume below 65%.

However, throw in a Eclipse HU, Rob Zeff designed amps, and some Rainbow Vandi comps and I listen to that warmth disappear. What gives? I tried my damndest to replicate the EQ curves to mimick the audiophile feel, but just couldn't do it.

If you could pinpoint one source to attribute sound image, would you point to the EQ?

 

[Blacksheep Josh]

I think you have to look at the overall system. You can't replace a stock part with a much better part and expect it to still mesh well. You really need to replace the whole system to get the "warmth" you're talking about.

For instance, I replaced my head unit and it sounded a little off from before, then I replaced my door speakers with a lot better qualities, and the sound sounded better then before.

You have to look at the whole system itself, down to the wiring. You're using better quality parts, so you should expect better quality sound.

My .02...

 

[RegularJoe]

Here is my 2¢ .....

The first problem I see a lot is people messing with the settings.

Current HUs give people so many options they generally shoot themselves in the foot. I see so many people tweak setting to the max. And its not just one setting, its multiple ones. I see them up the bass, turn on the loud, and put the preset EQ to powerful. This is one of the first things they do when they hop in the car. Turning on the loud adds 10db to bass and 7db to treble. Setting the EQ to powerful does about the same. Its no wonder it sounds like crap when the mids are flat, the bass is boosted 20db, and the treble is boosted 14db. All this gives is a bass heavy sound with piercing highs where the highs are non-existent.

A stock system is about guaranteed to have certain deficiencies. You up the bass, treble, etc. and try to help equalize it the best you can. For the most part it helps and is ok for the average person. There is not a lot of "guts" to the system and little power so the deficiencies aren't too pronounced.

When you start upgrading you want to touch as few things as possible. You have good components now so they shouldn't have all the deficiencies. All these sound alterations shouldn't be needed. Remember as well, for every setting you tweak you also add a little bit of distortion too. Ideally you want the settings on the HU for a full system to be flat. No preset EQ, loud, bass boost, etc. This will give the cleanest signal and the best chance of having a flat response.

 

[Cobraguy]

I don't know guys...I've seen some factory systems that aftermarket couldn't touch for "quality" of sound unless you spent thousands. Where most young folks today want a sound system where you can hear the bass hit a mile away (quantity), I prefer kars85's preferences. For that, some of the factory high end systems can't be beat IMO.

 

[RegularJoe]

I think people go overboard on is the highs too. So many systems I hear have very shrill highs. There are lots of 3-way and 4-way speakers out there. These are complete overkill and nothing more than sales gimmicks. I think the important thing on an after market speaker is to have one nice tweeter, and it must be accompanied by some form of bass management. Obviously an external crossover is best, but a bass blocker at a minimum. Personally I prefer crossovers with a -3db setting. I like to be able to turn down the highs a bit without tweaking them across the whole system. Silk dome tweeters also help smooth things out at times.

 

[kars85]

RegularJoe,

You've probably got the same 6 disc audiophile in your Mercury that I do. You understand completely about how switching out, let's say, the receiver, will completely overhaul the dynamics of the stock sound.

I'm looking at minimum the Pioneer FH-P8000BT and at most the P4000DVD. I'm content with my system, I've just exhausted my patience with CD's not ejecting and changing.

I don't feel like putting big money into a system overhaul.

 

[steventadams]

I was just noticing the same thing yesterday. In my sister's car the sound stage is fantastic and it's all stock. I'm running an aftermarket system and her's sounds more "full" than mine and it makes me notice mine as a little tinny almost.

 

[RegularJoe]

I think another thing people overlook is the highs.

Many people buy a enormous amplifier for the sub but then cheese out on the highs amplifier. Better power on the highs allows them to reproduce better sound overall. One wouldn't expect their sub to be happy on crappy power, so why should the highs?

Another thing is the setup. People build elaborate boxes for a sub, but when it comes to highs they just slap them in the door. I always put in the foam baffles and use dynamat, etc. on a door install. It helps keep the door from vibrating and discoloring the sound. I think this helps the SQ tremendously.

 

[symon_say]

Sound image have little to do with EQ, it has to be with equipment location, try to move your tweets and your mids, original premium sound is meant to work with your car ambient, but aftermarket is made to work in any car.

Try to play with position, and deadner and seal your doors.

 

[rip]

I think there are a lot of reasons, some already mentioned here, that destroy good sound, no matter how much money you throw at the systems.

Obviously, you have to match components, and we all know they are not created equal. Listening to them at the shop is nearly useless in a sound room. They'll sound nothing like that in the car....while you can get a good gage from reviews and advice, the best bet is hearing it yourself in a similar, already completed install.

The most overlooked thing is that, simply, a vehicle is probably the worst environment possible for an "audiophile" system. You have to balance all kinds of competing issues (noisy environment, noisy power, space limitations, you are off center, obstructions, aesthetics, etc...)

Some factory systems do this well as they've had their engineers and (on branded systems) the vendor's guys slave on it for months to balance price and performance and know exactly what they are doing.

The single most ignored factor (Touched on by RegularJoe) in my opinion is probably signal to noise. Good sound shouldn't "sound" like it's coming from a system. It should simply be enjoyable and easy to listen to, not tolerated or harsh...and therefore some of the biggest gains can be had in quieting the car (foam, dynamat) and picking quiet/transparent HU/amps...try tuning a cheap system up with no input and enjoy the tsunami of white noise...that's present always and shouldn't be.

 

[Cobraguy]

I'm looking at minimum the Pioneer FH-P8000BT

I have that radio in one of my Explorers. I am very, very happy with it. It doesn't have the adjustability that some have, but for the price, it's pretty darn good. I am very happy with what it does utilizing factory speakers and the factory subwoofer.

Oh yea...it's the best aftermarket Bluetooth I've ever seen. It utilizes the voice recognition in my LG phone and it's just about flawless. People hear me clearly, no echo, and I hear them perfectly. It actually works better than the factory Acura in my wife's MDX.

 

[BIGHVM]

My audio.

I used to have the 7000 unit iin my old xlt,when the display died- i put in a Blaupunkt orlando cd 72 and a 10 disk changer- keeping the stock speakers, it matched them well and I was impressed with the warmth and clarity also- to be honest- I prefered the sound to my set up at home that has high end Yamaha amp and acoustic energy 5.1!
I now have the stock 7000 in my Northface with the ford 6 disk changer and I am amazed that Ford got the set up so right as a stock unit!

Waiting for the display to die on the 7000 as always happens in the end and I will junk it and put old faithful back with an upgrade 200 watt blaupunkt sub mounted in the rear hatch panel below the window.

 

[BIGHVM]

My audio.

I used to have the 7000 unit iin my old xlt,when the display died- i put in a Blaupunkt orlando cd 72 and a 10 disk changer- keeping the stock speakers, it matched them well and I was impressed with the warmth and clarity also- to be honest- I prefered the sound to my set up at home that has high end Yamaha amp and acoustic energy 5.1!
I now have the stock 7000 in my Northface with the ford 6 disk changer and I am amazed that Ford got the set up so right as a stock unit!

Waiting for the display to die on the 7000 as always happens in the end and I will junk it and put old faithful back with an upgrade 200 watt blaupunkt sub mounted in the rear hatch panel below the window.