Turbo on 2000 Limited 5.0

Well guys, I don't even have it yet and I'm looking at going turbo.

I think I'll be going STS style with the turbo underneath the the body. I'm hoping I can find room somewhere closer to the front to mount it. If not, I may just go classic style and cut the muffler out and install the turbo in its place.

Tim was kind enough to point me at a turbo for sale locally. I'm checking it out now. I sent the specs to James Henson to see what his thoughts are.

Here's the specs:
t4 F1-68 turbine .68 a/r housing 3" exhaust outlet with a 72mm compressor blade 4inch inlet, 2.5 inch outlet, journal bearing. Also, see compressor map attached. I have a vague understanding, and that concerns me.

Now, the next issue is oil routing.
Oil in to the turbo would be handled from a T off the oil pressure sending unit on the block. Return oil would need a scavenge pump to the top of the oil pan, or in the timing chain cover. The scavenge pump adds quite a bit of cost to the setup. I think saving a few bucks in this area would spell disaster. So, this seems to be the best pump out there:
http://turbowerx.com/Scavenge_Pumps/Exa-Pump/Exa-Pump.html
Stainless steel oil lines will have to be used. As I read about under cab mounted turbo's oil issues seem to be a huge issue. This is going to require careful thought and routing.

My real issue is routing the air filter and compressed air up to the engine bay.
The frame rails will be the the way. I saw one guy notched out his frame for the plumbing and re-enforced the frame by welding metal around the plumbing line (3 inch or 4 inch hole). I'm concerned about running the two pipes and think this will be the biggest challenge. I really don't want that air filter under the truck.
See what this guy did on his ranger?


As for Maf? Pro-M all the way, in a blow thru design.

Fuel pump, injectors, sct go without saying. I'll be having James put together a care package for me along with the Pro-M.
Aeromotive Stealth 340 pump
Bosch uscar (EV6) 60lb injectors part # 108191

I'll recycle my boost gauge and wide band o2 from my supercharged 4.0 ohv.

I'll be using stainless steel for everything under the truck as rust always seems to be an issue.

Also. intercooling. I learned from my last project that cool intake air is incredibly important. People say on under cabin turbo's you don't really need it as the compressed air cools on the way up. Not good enough for me. Im going to go air/water so I have flexibility as to where I mount the intercooler. This could change, but intercooling of some form is a must.

My eye's are watering at what this is going to cost.

I see 02Limited turbo'd his, but he must have had quite a few issues and fell off the forum.

Not much info on guys completing something like this to be found. All input appreciated.

This will be a long process.

 

[4pointslow]

intercooler

Maybe try jumping the intercooler pump pressure switch to make it run all the time and see what it does. If it still does not remove enough heat then change to the Meziere pump.

Also what octane rating are you running, and what spark plug.
Did you got o a lower heat range plug?

 

[jd4242]

I was wondering the same thing with you guys who run switches for the pump..even though your not running boost all the time that stagnant water in the ic has to be getting hot..does it really have enough time to cycle cool water through it cooling the core and fins fast enough before your into max boost??i would think from turn on to max boost isnt but a couple seconds and seriously doubt thats enough time..but idk

 

[Dono]

I don't know either JD, It makes sense to me that I don't need the pump running unless under boost as the air charge isn't being heated. I could be wrong.

I am fighting detonation, and James has tried fattening up the af ratio and pulling a bunch of timing. What I have going on with detonation is unusual. I'm not sure, but it might be the iron heads.
I'm running ar103 plugs. 1 heat range cooler, and copper.
Compression is 9.6, but I wonder if the cam is mismatched even though it's custom with rear mount turbo specified.

 

[4pointslow]

plugs

What brand is ar103?

 

[jd4242]

I was just thinking,even though boost isnt being made,air is still going through that turbine and the case is still gotta be hot..which means warm air is still passing through the IC slightly heating the water in it or the fins/core..i was just thinking it may take more time for it to get cool water and cool down before real heat/boost is already passing through it..kind of why i was trying to figure out what the outside ambient air was and what temps you were seeing in motor before boost..given your filter isnt under hood it should be sucking air in thats same temp as the outside air..iat should be very close to outside ambient temps when not under boost

I wonder how much timing hes pulling for increases in IAT

 

[vroomzoomboom]

not to but in here or anything, but this really doesnt make sense to me for some reason. my motor has more compression, about the same amount of boost, but i have a water meth kit, and drive mine waaaaaaaaaaay harder then don does and i dont have this problem. sure the meth kit helps, but i am sure a eaton supercharger makes way more heat then a rear mounted turbo.
i was wrong don, i haven never seen someone have so much bad luck with used parts, and detonation

 

[Dono]

4pointslow, I'm 99% certain they are autolite ar103's

Tim, yea, James is scratching his head also

Here's what I observed on this last pull:
A bit of detonation at around 3800 rpm, about 50mph, 13.5 degrees total timing, afr of 11.0, with an iat of 96 degrees F. Boost pressure at about 9lbs.

The detonation cleared right up past that point, but the head scratcher is that there is little timing and lots of fuel for detonation to be happening at this boost level.

I'm starting to think I hit the point of diminishing returns and would be better to back off to 7 or 6psi max boost and be able to keep timing up more.

 

[4pointslow]

Fuel

Octane rating of fuel?

 

[vroomzoomboom]

john, the highest octane of fuel we have up here is 91

 

[delexploder]

Why aren't you running platinum plugs?

 

[2000StreetRod]

Intercooler coolant temperature

I've datalogged my IATs upstream of the throttle body before adding the M90 and relocating the sensor to the manifold (downstream of M90). I found that on a warm day (90 deg F) when the vehicle is sitting still the temperature rapidly increased to 150 degrees which is why I added my cold air intake hoses. I also found that as soon as the vehicle was moving 20 mph or so the IAT would drop to slightly above ambient.

Your newly added large intercooler heat exchanger is in an excellent location for ambient airflow once the vehicle is moving. However, being that far forward of the radiator cooling fan there may not be much airflow when the vehicle is stationary. The temperature of your non-flowing intercooler coolant is probably approaching 150 deg F. As soon as you start moving the coolant in the heat exchanger will start dropping but the intercooler temperature will rise and won't begin dropping until the boost exceeds 1 psi. I agree with jd4242 that the coolant should be circulating before you hit boost. I run my pump continuously because I have a small (un-insulated) reservoir and my Bosch pump flow is not that great.

I think it would be better to activate the pump on throttle position instead of boost pressure. The PCM deactivates the A/C compressor at WOT. You could use the same signal and appropriate relay to activate the intercooler pump and intercooler heat exchanger fans if added in the future. That way the pump would be running before boost is available but only when at WOT.

 

[2000StreetRod]

platinum vs copper plugs

Why aren't you running platinum plugs?

The advantage of platinum plugs is slower electrode wear. However, since platinum is more expensive than copper the mass of the platinum electrode is less than a copper electrode making it more heat sensitive in my opinion. I use discontinued heavy duty Champion Truck Plugs with oversize copper electrodes that are even less heat sensitive than standard copper electrodes. To my knowledge I've never experienced flame blowout and my plugs are holding up very well. As I recall James Henson recommends copper plugs.

 

[Dono]

Throttle position would be best to key the pump.
I'll spend some time looking at the throttle body to see if I can mount a micro switch that keys somewhere around 1/2 throttle. I just don't want the pump running all the time. Half throttle would be excellent.

I also need to get that delay timer boxed and mounted so the pump runs for a minute or two after it has been keyed to run.

2000StreetRod, isn't the A/C deactivation working only when the a/c is active?

 

[2000StreetRod]

deactivation of A/C clutch

. . . 2000StreetRod, isn't the A/C deactivation working only when the a/c is active?

That would make sense and it looks like you're correct. When the Mode Selector Switch on the A/C/Heater Function Selector Switch Assembly is positioned to one requiring A/C (Max A/C, Norm A/C, Panel/Floor, Def/Flr or Defrost) the PCM senses that and activates the A/C Relay if the In-Car temperature exceeds the desired temperature. When the PCM senses WOT then it just deactivates the A/C Relay.

Instead of a micro switch you could have a settable voltage activated relay that depends on the TPS voltage. Half throttle would be about [(5-1)/2 +1 = ] 3 volts.

 

[delexploder]

Last time I tried copper plugs with this system it ran great for a while but they burned out real fast

 

[Dono]

Last time I tried copper plugs with this system it ran great for a while but they burned out real fast

Yes, they don't last as long. On a 5.0 its not a bad thing to change plugs regularly anyway.

Here is the perfect voltage relay for the job.
http://www.jaycar.com.au/Kits,-Scie.../Automotive/Universal-Voltage-Switch/p/KC5377

High impedance input. If I could just find one in Canada or USA.

 

[2000StreetRod]

universal voltage switch

The specifications for that one only listed physical dimensions. I wouldn't buy one that didn't list trigger voltage range and relay current max. Also, it's a kit and not assembled.

 

[Dono]

http://www.autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&title=Incredibly-cheap-voltage-switch&A=113008

This link is what lead me to the product. I would prefer one that I didn't have to build. I haven't really looked much further yet.

 

[2000StreetRod]

ordered two

Pretty neat! I just ordered two from Amazon for about $21 (included shipping and handling). The ones I ordered appear to be assembled. I don't have a need for one yet but I'm sure something will come up. Thanks for posting the links!

 

[Dono]

I appreciate the thought of keying off voltage instead of a mechanical switch. That's what started my hunt, as its a far better way to do it.

I liked the one in the first link better since it could be modified for a delay before shutting off. Since its way more money, harder to get, and not assembled, I wen't for the one in the second link also.