Fuel in the oil? from where?

manaen · March 29, 2007

OK, I have a very strange problem here, my oil is always showing high. This morning I changed it and checked it, it was fine. Then I drove about 100 miles and now it is showing about 1qt high with a strong smell of gas. So I figured no problem it must be the fuel regulator, well I vacume tested the diaphram which hold vacume and seems to be fine. There are no codes, the engine runs great, the only problem is the over full oil and smell of gas in the oil. Were other than the FPR can the fuel be coming from to make my oil so high. I will be going out and checking the EVAP after typing this but I'm not really sure what to check with it. Hopefully someone has some good ideas here. I am at a loss, since there are no code and the engine runs great, that means the fuel must be getting into the crankcase directly (IE not passing through the intake) otherwise I would think the engine would either burn it up, and/or run very rich which it is not. I am a bit conserned about running this thing with fuel in the oil, and I need to us it

Oh btw this is a 2001 Mounty 4.0 SOHC 4x4

TIA

manaen · March 29, 2007

OK the EVAP checks out, I am beginning to think it may be a leaky injector. The thing that has me stumped is that the engine is running great, and the exhaust is clean, in fact the tail pipe is completely free of any black residue. So is it possible that an injector can leak down when the engine is not running but work fine while the engine is running?

I need to do a fuel pressure leak down test, but first I need to replace my FP gauge, the end broke off my gauge. I have a feeling the presure will be fine but the fuel will leak down.

OK so if i do have a leaky injector, is it possble that a cleaning will help the problem?

manaen · March 29, 2007

OK now I am perplexed, I tested the fuel pressure, and the good news is there is no leak down, but the fuel pressure is hitting 68lbs at idle geesh. ok so that still doesn't explain how the fuel is getting into the crankcase. Maybe one of you guys can shed some light on this one for me. The truck isn't showing a rich state, it isn't throwing a code. The only indication of the high pressure is the slight tapping of the fuel injectors.

Creager · March 29, 2007

So is it possible that an injector can leak down when the engine is not running but work fine while the engine is running?

ding-ding-ding-ding-ding!!! Yes, very possible.

OK so if i do have a leaky injector, is it possble that a cleaning will help the problem?

nope, that sucker is probably cracked.

The one time this happened to me it was due to a cracked fuel injector. For the longest time i couldnt figure out why the top of my intake manifold was covered in liquid. And i thought it was a coolent leak; i figured hey, that liquid is boiling over there!... nah it was gas.

Definatly dont run it like that... gas + bearing surfaces = scorching

68 lbs at the regulator is high, very high. Makes me think you have a FPR problem too.

Gas might be getting through the chambers by trickeling past the rings while the engine is sitting.

manaen · March 29, 2007

The Plot Thickens, I just talked to Ford Parts and they said that my engine doesn't have a FPR on the rail just a pulse modulator, So which pump has the regulator in it. And am I out of spec with 68lbs at idle, my haynes manual calls for 30 to 45 lbs but it says with the vacuum hose connected. Which leads me to believe that they are referring to the older style fuel rail FPR with the vacume line in it.

Creager · March 29, 2007

68lbs sounds way out of spec to me. The pump itself is capable of ~100lb

the OHV is supposed to only be within 20-30 lbs, so 30-45 sounds right for the SOHC

manaen · March 29, 2007

Creager said:
The one time this happened to me it was due to a cracked fuel injector. For the longest time i couldnt figure out why the top of my intake manifold was covered in liquid. And i thought it was a coolent leak; i figured hey, that liquid is boiling over there!... nah it was gas.
.

Hah, No smoking allowed :fire:

So where do I find the FPR on my truck since obviosly this haynes manual is worthless

manaen · March 29, 2007

Oh one other thing I wanted to mention, I think i found the answer to when the gas is leaking, when the truck sits after running, I noticed the pressure rises the longer it sits (not running). I think what is happening is the heat from the engine is adding to the pressure in the fuel rail and slowly increasing the pressure which eventually is too much for the injectors to take and then the fuel slowly leaks out into the engine. It's the best theory I got right now

manaen · March 29, 2007

OK looks like I'm back to square one, I guess 60+ pounds for the new SOHC engines without the FPR on the fuel rail is normal. The older engines with the FPR and the return line ran at a much lower pressure. I guess that makes sense since the higher the pressure the better the spray/atomization of fuel.

That's all well and good but I still need to figure out were the fuel is comming from in my oil.

someones got to have some outside the box ideas here. How long should the fuel rail hold it's pressure?

ExplorerDMB · March 29, 2007

fuel and heat will increase your pressure - it'll perculate. I doubt that's your issue. How many miles on the engine?

-Drew

manaen · March 29, 2007

ExplorerDMB said:
fuel and heat will increase your pressure - it'll perculate. I doubt that's your issue. How many miles on the engine?

-Drew

105k, everything checks out, I hooked up my computer and checked all the sensors. The engine runs great, and even my fuel mileage is good (17 to 19). the only indication of a problem was the high oil level, at first I thought maybe it was due to the seafoam treatment I did 2 weeks ago, but after changing the oil, it seemed to go up again.

manaen · March 30, 2007

OK I'm back for round 2 today, I'm going to perform another leak down test with the engine cold and see how that goes. If it still does not display any carracteristics of a leak, then I will just have to burn my truck as a sacrifice to the ford gods, of course if I can't figure it out, it may take care of that for me :fire:

I'll post the results when I have them..

manaen · March 30, 2007

I just ran a second leak down test the truck was cold, and all I did was do a KOEO with to bump the fuel pump, pressure went up to 62lbs turned the key off. truck sat for 15min checked the pressure gauge says 40lbs, truck sat for 45 min went out checked the pressure back to 60lbs ( I guess ambient temp has a big effect on fuel line pressure, it was a cold morning and it is warming fast) OK so 1hr 15min pressure is sitting at 62lbs, which basically leaves me with exactly bumpkiss, Nada, zippo!!

I guess I'm gonna have to continue to monitor the situation and hope that
a) the truck miraculously fixed itself
2) the problem was a figment of my imagination, invented by one of the voices in my head.
D) aliens landed and repaired my truck
z) the problem will eventually rear its ugly head and I will be able to figure it out, when the computer throws a code.

I am a very logical person, and this, to coin a 60's term "Does not compute"

manaen · March 30, 2007

For those who have followed along here, I have a new theory, and it came from my last bleed down test. I thought it was rather odd that the first time I checked the pressure was down to 40 and then it went up from there to 62 for over an hour. Well I am betting that somehow my fuel pump is kicking in while the truck is sitting.

the only way I can think that this can happen is if the fuel pump relay has constant power going to the feed side of the relay and the relay is beginning to fail and momentarly connecting power to the fuel pump which is bringing pressure back into the lines. So as the truck sits the fuel is just very slowly seeping into the engine and then the fuel pump repressurizes and the process continues all night long.

I am running a test right now, I hooked up my pressure gauge, drained all the pressure from the lines and will let the truck sit to see if it builds fuel pressure back up. If it does, I've found my problem and should just have to replace the relay and be back in business.

This is the best theory, and it would explain why everything else is working fine. I'm crossing my fingers!!

I hope I can find the problem and save someone else the hasle of troubleshooting this same thing.

manaen · March 31, 2007

OK, well as usual, I ran some more pressure tests, and couldn't duplicate the readings I got the other morning. I swapped out the relay with a new bosch unit that I had laying around. I kept the relay, and will do some more testing with it to see if I can get it to fail. I may wire it up to a spare battery and see if I can get it to fail outside the car.

manaen · April 2, 2007

Ok I was able to not a problem with the relay, but now that the pump isn't kicking in the pressure test shows that I do in fact have a leaky injector.

Does anybody know how to tell which injectors I have without actually pulling them?

I have two choices
XL2E-A1C @ $67ea
F87E-H1A @ $39ea

I looked at mine and they are blue (if that helps) and I cannot make out any numbers on them. There is writing on the sides but I couldn't make it out without pulling the intake.

any tell tale signs of which injectors I have. Oh and why are one set so much more expensive, what is the difference?

Turdle · April 2, 2007

ok-first, I believe in 99+ models the fuel pressure was bumped up, yours sounds correct.

You might find your leaking injector by reading spark plugs--

manaen · April 3, 2007

jtsmith said:
ok-first, I believe in 99+ models the fuel pressure was bumped up, yours sounds correct.

You might find your leaking injector by reading spark plugs--

when I changed the plugs, little over a week ago, they where all burning perfectly, none of them where sooty at all. This is part of why I have been having trouble figuring out this problem. The engine runs great.

I think my injector is leaking mostly when the engine is not running.

I've been trying to think of an easy way to test the injectors and I think I have something that may work, tell me what you guys think.

Is it possible to pull the upper and lower intake, put a strip of paper towel in each intake runner, and then bump the fuel pump to bring up pressure (by doing KOEO). Then let the truck sit for 30 min and come back and pull each paper towel to see which one(s) are soaked with gas? Does that sound reasonable?

Or is the injector down too far to reach with the paper towel?

Thanks for the help!! :thumbsup:

Turdle · April 3, 2007

I wonder if this would help?

http://www.autobarn.net/fluorleakdet1.html

manaen · April 5, 2007

jtsmith said:
I wonder if this would help?

http://www.autobarn.net/fluorleakdet1.html

very cool, So I wonder if you just run that through tank, or if you need to pressure it directly into the fuel rail. Only problem is I dont have a UV light

I wont have time this week, but I will tear into this project next week.

thanks for the link that sounds like really cool stuff

Fuel in the oil? from where?

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