6R60 is Driving Me Nuts!!!

[bdavid]

Hello everyone,

I need some advice.
I have an 07 Explorer with a 4.6l with the 6R60 tranny with 66k.
I needed to change out the radiator due to a crack in the plastic end tank.
The radiator was replaced and I refilled the tranny to the correct level using Amsoil SP (around 2 quarts).

When I took it out for a 20 minute test drive, she drove and shifted fine.
As I backed in to the driveway, I felt the tranny make a small clunk. When I put her back into drive, she hesitated but went in. Took her for a drive around the block and she wouldn't shift out of first gear. I tried to shift into reverse but all she did was rev and slowly move backwards. I pulled back into driveway and checked the fluid level and it was fine. I came inside and started mumbling a few choice 4 letter words and started searching the internet for a solution and found this excellent forum.

The next morning, I borrowed a friend's scan tool and pulled a P0731 error code (Gear 1 Incorrect Ratio). I started her up and she went into reverse without any problems. I took her out for a 10 minute drive and she shifted great through all 6 gears. Came back home and put her in reverse and I felt the same slight clunk and she wouldn't back up. Put her back into drive and she was again stick in 1st gear.

After then spending several hours searching the internet, to me it sounds like one to the solenoids are sticking since what I've read that the 1st and reverse gears share the same circuit. The question I have is, should I change out the valve body or can I just buy the solenoids and keep the stock valve body? Or maybe the better question is my assumption correct about the solenoids? I'm going to change out the fluid and filter asap and I'll pull the valve body to take a look but I'll looking for more advice from much more knowledgeable than me?

Sorry for the long post but I need some help.

Thanks,
Brian

 

[JK080]

It very well could be a solenoid problem, the SS D (VSF4) solenoid is on in 1st and reverse. It would be a good guess to replace it and see what happens.

The SS D (VSF4) solenoid has the red dot on it in the pic.

 

[bdavid]

Thanks for getting back to me.
I just wanted to post an update.

I dropped the pan and pulled the valve body to replace the solenoid.
As I did, I found that both of the rubber oil lines (One had a blue mark and the other had a green) on the top of the valve body were cracked as they entered the tranny. I'll post the photos when I figure how to do it. I replaced both of them just to be sure. I replaced the SS D (VSF4) solenoid and bolted everything back in place and unfortunately, the issue occurred once I took it out for a test drive. She shifted great in both reverse and going forward when cold, but got stuck in first once the tranny oil warmed up.

After doing some more research, I contacted Sonnax and they have lots of great information and recommendation. I also stopped by my local transmission shop and talk to the owned and he recommended replacing the entire valve body. He knew of a place that sold re-manufactured valve bodies with a warranty that was cheaper than the Sonnax upgrades and modifications. I'm wait for the valve body which should be here today. I'm hoping this solves the problem sine the wife is getting sick driving my truck!!!

 

[bdavid]

Well today really sucked!!!
The new valve body came in and I dropped the pan.
I pulled the old one and installed the re-built one without much issue. Refilled the transmission with Amsoil and took her out for a test drive. She pulled out of the driveway and shifted great into reverse and into drive. Took a 20 minute drive so she could learn the shift points again and everything felt great. Came back and put it into reverse and the same thing happened again. The engine rev'ed but she didn't move too fast. Put it into drive and she wouldn't shift out of first!!!! I wish I had some hair since I would've pulled it out!!!!

Does anyone have any other suggestions? Could it be the TCM or the PCM?? I really don't want to pull the transmission but it seems like I gott'a replace it.

Any help would be much appreciated

Brian

 

[bdavid]

Hey Everyone,

I have a quick update and a question.
As for the update, I took the explorer to a transmission shop and after a day of troubleshooting and replacing the ground wire, I'm still have shifting issues. It shifts great when the oil is cold but won't shift out of 1st gear when she heats up. The transmission shop was stumped and pretty my had no suggestions. They wanted to just rebuild the transmission with a new valve body, TCM & torque converter to solve the problem. I gagged at the $5000 bill and decided to see if there are other possible solutions. So I limped the explorer home to do some more research.

After spending numerous hours on the internet, I couldn't find any anyone else with this issue. I picked up a used TCM to see if the temperature sensor or the ISS was faulty on the stock TCM. I also decided to purchase a tranny temp gauge that I'll splice in after the oil cooler to see if the fluid is being overheated. I'm waiting on that gauge. I also dropped the pan again to see if there is any contamination on any of the TCM sensors. As a I dropped the pan and removed the valve body, I found a spring/nipple component nearly falling out of the transmission. After doing some research, I found out it's the oil thermal bypass valve that circulates the oil in the transmission until it gets up to temperature. The question that I have is with the thermal bypass valve. When I removed the valve, the nipple portion of the valve was facing into the valve body and the spring going into the transmission. When I look online, it looks like it should be installed direct opposite. Below is a link to the exploded view of the transmission.

http://www.ganzeboom.net/uploads/documents/zf6hp26206r60.pdf

The part I'm talking about is 761-P.

Does anybody know if the nipple needs to be facing towards the valve body or away from the valve body?

Any help would be appreciated.

Brian

 

[JK080]

Spring in the case first then the valve, the valve will seat on the valve body. There is a hole in the valve body that the valve covers.

 

[bdavid]

Damn'it!! I was hoping it was installed backwards causing the oil to not be circulated through the oil cooler and possibly causing the oil to overheat and trip some type of limp mode in the TCM. Alright back to the drawing board!!!

 

[bdavid]

I do have one more question. I read somewhere that if I replace the TCM with the one I picked up, I'll need to have it re-programed at a ford dealership since the ecu was programed to the stock TCM only. Is that true?

Thanks again

 

[JK080]

I have not used a used valve body or TCM on these, I have replaced the valve body and TCM with new OEM. They were delivered without any program, we towed the vehicle to the dealer to have it programed.

I am not sure what would happen to use one programed for a different truck, I would not be surprised if it worked without issue.

Also Sonnax make a good kit for this valve body, it will take care of some worn and leaky spots that this valve body is known for, I have used it and I like it.

http://www.sonnax.com/parts/3052

Thinking about when this problem happens it would seem that it is having trouble shifting into second gear once hot, so looking at what is controlling second it would be a good idea to change the solenoid that controls the shift into second gear. That solenoid would be the SS-C solenoid.

The SS-C solenoid is the one with the blue dot on it in the picture, I would say to swap it with the one you took out for the other one but I am not sure they are the same, check the part number, it would have to be the exact part number to match. I think the connector might be a different color if they are I wouldn't swap them around.

 

[JK080]

One more thing, that rectangle molded seal between the valve body and case has been known for problems. I dont think its your problem that you are experiencing but it would be a good idea to replace it as well.

 

[bdavid]

It's funny that you brought up that seal. After doing some more research, it seems that BMW's use either a hybrid or a different configuration of the 6R60 which is a 6HP26. It appears (not a 100% sure) that the Mechatronic/TCM unit is identical to the 6R60. A number of these unit appear to have the same problem as I'm having. One person did a great write up on his issues and it appears that metal contamination in the electric connections and/or sensors appears to be an issue. In his write up, he recommended replacing that seal along with the 4 rubber feed tubes to the valve body.

http://www.olpds.com/read-online/29...-mechatronics-unit-e-shift-unit-by-wilson009/

I just ordered all those seals along with the round sealing sleeve for the electrical connection outside the transmission which is prone to leaking. I cleaned all of the connections and the sensors on the TCM and I just waiting on parts before I bolt everything back together.

Before I pulled the pan yesterday, I did verify that the pump is working by pulling line from the oil cooler once she was warm and the fluid came squirting out. I'm thinking of putting a pressure gauge along with the temperature gauge on the exit of the cooler is see if that's a problem.

Someday life's gonn'a get easier but it's not today!!!!

 

[JK080]

I am more familiar with this transmission in the BMW's and Range Rovers, its called the ZF6HP26, made by ZF. ZF has been making transmissions for the German market for a long time. I think they are very well put together and I enjoy rebuilding them and all the others they make. But like any other manufacture they have their weak spots too. I have seen solenoid issues with both the BMW and the Rovers, their solenoids are different from the ones found in the Fords. The only time I have had to replace the TCM for these is in the Rovers, they have problems with water intrusion from their radiators, computers and water never turn out well.

I really think you should replace that one solenoid that controls second gear, at least swap it with one that has the same part number and the same color connector, if you swap it around and the problem is different you will know its the solenoid and then you will have to pull the pan again to replace it.

 

[bdavid]

I just got all my new seals and I did order the new solenoid for the 2nd gear but unfortunately it's on backorder and it won't be available until next week. The new, or I should say, re-manufactured valve body had all the solenoids checked and have a one year warranty. When looking at the stock one, the solenoid part numbers don't match up to my new one. Cracked open the stock valve body and realized I have a 1st gen unit and the re-manufactured one is a 2nd gen system (I was using the Sonnax site when looking it the zip kit you recommenced). Could this be a issue? I'm not sure if there's a compatibility issue but I think I'll send it back and get a 1st valve body just to make sure. I just hate waiting on parts since the local Ford dealership has nothing in stock!!!

 

[bdavid]

So one more crappy night in the driveway!!!!
I received the new (or I should say, manufactured) 1st gen valve body and when I took it apart to verify it was the correct one, I realized that they forgot to install 4 out of the 6 solenoid dampers. No big deal, I just pulled the stock ones out and bolted everything back together. All the feed tubes, the rectangle seal and electrical connecting sleeve were replaced. I'm still waiting on the brown & black solenoids for the 1st & 2nd gears but I verified (using an ohm meter) the existing ones appear to be OK. I cleaned the stock TCM, installed the thermal bypass valve and decided to bolt everything back together. Filled her full of oil and took a test drive tonight and guess what, she did the same thing!!! Shifted great when she was cold and when I came home after a 20 minute drive, she would shift out of 1st or maybe 2nd gear!!!!! I installed a temp gauge and the oil never went above 110 degrees F. I installed the temp gauge on the feed line heading into the oil cooler. I again took the feed line off the oil cooler to verify the oil was circulating and also the return line to make sure the oil cooler wasn't being plugged. Everything was great!!!! I made a video that I'll post on YouTube of me driving when she's cold and shifting great and when I got back home and she decides to piss me off!!!

For my own sanity, I pulled a sample of oil out of the cooler when I got home and measure the temperature and the oil was around 100 degree F!!!! I'm at a loss!!! This doesn't make any sense to me at all. The pump is working, the oil isn't overheated, she drives fine cold but has issues when heated up. The only things left for me to do is replace the solenoids when they come in, replace and re-flash with the extra TCM that I picked up or pull the transmission and rebuild her. I don't think I need to rebuild the transmission since she shift fine when cold. It seams to me like a fluid path issue and replacing the solenoids make the most sense to me. Could it be the torque converter? I just don't know what to do next!!!

Alright, enough whining from me already and get back to work and solve this problem.. Tomorrow is another day.

 

[bdavid]

Does anyone know how high the oil transmission temperature can go before limp mode activates? I downloaded the full version of Torque OBDII reader and used a custom PID and was able to read the oil temp at the TCM. According to the Torque software, my oil temp while driving around town at less than 45 mph and never going above 3000 rpm's was anywhere between 205 to 212F. That seems very high but I'm not sure. My cut in transmission temp gauge that I installed by the oil cooler on the passenger side never reached 145 F. I wonder if the TCM is bad or maybe I have a cooling issue within the transmission? Just wondering what other people think.

Thanks,
Brian

 

[bdavid]

So I went out for a another drive to see if the oil temp spikes. The drive last over 45 minutes and she shifted great and had no issues backing up. I logged the transmission temp during the ride and she seems to run at around 210F +/- 5F (sorry, I'm an engineer and I'm kind'a of a geek). She spiked up to 221F for a short time but came back down to the normal oil temp pretty quick. I put her in reverse several times and had no issues shifting in drive. I only drove around town finding the longest hills I could find. I never was above 3000 rpm's or went above 50 mph but she shifted through the gear without issue. I'll take her out again just to make sure but I'm happy (somewhat) that everything is looking great. I am concerned that I don't know why she's shifting without any issues!!! I did nothing to the explorer today except data log the ecu & tcm. I wonder if I overfilled the transmission the other day since it took nearly 8 quarts to fill her after I bolted up the pan? And by bleeding away some of the oil at the oil cooler (around 3/4 of a quart) that everything became balanced again? I have a hard time believing that but the last few times pulling the pan, I only needed to add around 6 quarts to fill it back up. IN the morning, I'll take her on the highway next to see what happens

 

[bdavid]

So everything has been great for the past few days. No problems going into reverse or going thru all 6 gears in the city and highway. Last night, taking a right at a traffic light, I was rolling around 5 mph, I was in 2nd gear and felt a cluck and some hesitation when it downshifted. I drove another 100 feet and a wrench light came on but she was still shifting between gears. Pulled the code of P0731 off the ecu. Checked the oil and she was fine. I just received the 1st & 2nd gear solenoids yesterday and I'm not sure I should pull the pan and replace them. Would a bad solenoid cause the hard shift I felt and create a P0731 error code?

 

[bdavid]

Does anyone know if the 6R60 has a vent tube? The reason I ask is when I was checking the oil level and removed the dipstick cap, I heard alot of compressed gas escape from the transmission and spayed the cat converter with some oil. The car was turned off and I just got back from a 30 mile drive so the oil was around 200F.

 

[JK080]

Here is where the vent is located.

 

[JK080]

Would a bad solenoid cause the hard shift I felt and create a P0731 error code?

Yes it can.