M5R1 and M5OD?

[F14CRAZY]

Howdy. THIS IS NOT THE TIME TO TALK ME OUT OF IT. In trying to plan my auto tranny to manual conversion, I have a question...My Haynes manual says my '93 would use an M5OD. On ebay, I found an M5R1. What's the difference? My plan it to get a junker with a stick already, and use the parts. If that tranny is not quite in good shape, I will get a reman.

In some searching I found out there was a Mazda manual and also a Mistubishi. Is one better than the other? If yes, is it that much of a difference? And how do the brands go with the model numbers?

Thanks. I find this is a good match for my project.

 

[CAC91]

The Mazda transmission is the only thing offered in Explorers. The Mitsubishi tranny was found in Rangers and BII's with 3.0 and smaller engines.

To the extent of my knowledge, the M5OD and M5R1 are the same transmission called different names by different people. The M5 was offered even in F150s (the M5R2) and Thunderbirds (Aerostars, too), so make sure you get one that will bolt to the 4.0L and your t-case, which limits you to Explorers and Rangers for your search.

I have had people tell me that the later model Explorer 5 speeds have been improved over the 1st gen units, which would make sense, but nobody had any proof or facts to back it up. I would just look for any tranny out of an Explorer or Ranger in good shape and take good care of it. Replace the rubber shift rail plugs with metal ones (detailed all over the place on this board) before you install it and you should wind up with a decent trans, but it'll be a lot more work than you think.

 

[F14CRAZY]

Thank you CAC91. Just the info I wanted. You reminded me that I can pick from 4x4 Rangers of the era also.

I guess I'll find out if I need a rebuild or not. When I find a donor, I'll try to drive it around for a week or so and figure out if it's in good enough shape. I won't be towing and will keep it filled with synthetic or at least synthetic blend.

 

[BonesDT]

I have performed the swap on my 4.0 SOHC engine.

I agree that the M5OD and M5R1 are the same thing.
the full name of the transmission is Mazda M5OD-R1 and that is the exact transmission that came stock on the manual 4.0L OHV explorers and rangers.
it is commonly abbreviated by those names. just make sure you are not getting the R2 which is different.

in '01/'02 the 4.0L SOHC explorers/rangers finally came out with a manual transmission. the transmission has the same bolt pattern and size, but has a lower first gear and i guess built beefier, the full name for this transmission is Mazda M5OD-R1HD (guessing the HD for heavy duty)

any of the two transmissions will bolt directly on your 4.0 OHV. obviously you would want the newer HD version since it is stronger and will last longer if you can get your hands on one, but to me they are almost impossible to find due to being so new and so rare, i was lucky enough to find one. the older regular tranny wont be too hard to find depending on where your from.

if you need any help with the swap, feel free to ask me or email me.

i highly recommend that before you start/buy anything, that you find a computer, wiring harness, and the actual tranny. finding those three things will be the hardest part of the swap. your life will be a million times easier if you have a donor. i have the part numbers for most of the little parts. (i am still driving around after 10,000 miles with the old computer and no wiring harness.)

 

[CAC91]

Also, from my own personal experience, I'd recommend regular ATF rather than synthetic. It works better in my transmission at least.

 

[F14CRAZY]

Thanks BonesDT and CAC91 again. I am planning on getting a donor, since my dad has a friend that deals with car auctions, or from like the Voulenteers of America auctions or sumthin. With the trucks side by side, knowing where everything goes would be easier too. The nice thing is that I just need the tranny and nothing else, but a running truck would be nice to test the tranny. (and get me excited about the project) And when I'm done, I could swap my auto back into the donor truck to sell and probably pay for the entire thing. My auto still works fine.

My brother and I aren't real mechanics, but we love cars and do our own work. We can repack front wheel bearings, change transfer case oil, replace shocks, replace fuel pumps/filters, and other stuff, so I think us and the Haynes manual are up to the challenge. I'll let you guys know if anything goes wrong on us. Thanks again.

One more thing; this is going to be like a test if we can do it, because my brother has a '99 Stang GT and he's stuck with an auto. He kinda wants a Tremec, so he'll help me out and I'll help him out too.

 

[Blaine122300]

Did you ever get this swap done? I want to do the same thing. I really want to find a donor too, so I can get everything I need off of it. I too want to put my auto into it and sell it off. I guess I would have to change out my dash shifter and gauge pod too so it doesnt have the P R N D 2 1 on it any more.

thanks in advance for any help

Andy

 

[F14CRAZY]

Did you ever get this swap done? I want to do the same thing. I really want to find a donor too, so I can get everything I need off of it. I too want to put my auto into it and sell it off. I guess I would have to change out my dash shifter and gauge pod too so it doesnt have the P R N D 2 1 on it any more.

thanks in advance for any help

Andy

Well, my project is kind of stuck. I did get a "beater" donor, but the thing is my donor is a bit too nice to screw up. It's the XL in my signature, and it has NO rust. Sure, I did get it for $300, but still...

I plan on finding a rusty beater donor for the swap when I get some left over cash. I'll give updates this summer on it.

 

[BonesDT]

yes i got the swap done, and it's been about a year of everyday driving on it with almost no problems

the thing with the dash and the P R D, etc., there is a $6 part which i have the part number for, it is a black block which replaces the letters in the instrument panel with nothing and blocks out the light. you do not need a new instrument panel.

there is also an inexpensive new upper steering column shroud that replaces the one with the hole for the automatic column shifter, unfortunatly this is one piece that i cant seem to get the part number for, but should be easy to find.

the only major problems i've had with the SOHC manual swap are the computer and wiring harnesses. first off, i have the full center console. this is kind of neat because you can remove the felt 2-section compartment, and the shifter will fit nicely through that opening, just make yourself a custom boot to seal it. some people here have done that, but there are lots of pictures on rangerstation.com of people who have added the explorer full console to their manual rangers. i noticed though, with some shifter, the straight ones, it does not clear through the opening, but i exchanged the straight black one with a chrome ranger FX4 shifter which is bent differently and clears perfectly. i can give you more detailed info on that.

but the problem with the full console is that the wiring harness does not exist for the clutch pedal position switch (CPP). right now i just ignore that switch, but in the future, i will have to wire it up myself. just make sure you dont try to start the truck without it pushed in.

the CPP is a very minor problem. the big problem arises from the transmission harness and the computer. i am still running off my old automatic computer and transmission harness. what i actually did was, jumped the wires on the auto shift connector, fooling the computer that the "automatic" is in neutral. this is mandatory in order to be able to start the engine. i then drove around just like that for a while, but you will experience horrible bucking of the engine occasionally. i fixed this by ripping out all the solenoids from the automatic and connecting them to the harness and strapping all the solenoids and sensors to the underneath of the body. this is how i've been driving everyday for about a year now. these are the problems i deal with now:
1. immediately after each start-up, i need to quickly rev the engine slightly, otherwise, the engine dies in a few seconds. ????? dont ask, not really a big deal. very rarely, the engine also dies WHILE DRIVING as soon as i push the clutch pedal in. this may be considered dangerous, but it happens very rarely, and can be jump started again by slowly letting out the clutch again.
2. when pushing the engine, or flooring, i can feel some fuel cut-offs, maybe like the computer is anticipating a shift. this is also very minor, barely feel it, and happens rarely.
3. the check engine light is constintly on and the O/D off light constintly blinks
4. no reverse lights as of yet (because of wiring harness), but this is an extremely easy fix, just custom connect old reverse light wires to new reverse light socket on manual transmission, just been too lazy

even though these problems make make most of you uneasy, i have been comfortable driving like this for a year. though, the problems need to be fixed ASAP. i will have it fixed this summer. my three alternatives are, new factory computer, custom burnt chip, or entire engine manangement system.

the problems with a new factory computer is that there is none for a '99 SOHC manual, because this kind of set-up never existed. i would have to take my chances with a newer '01-up SOHC manual computer, but this involves great risks if anything goes wrong.

a custom burnt chip, expecially from brian at apten is probably the most practical and cheapest fix, but all this mysterious, unknown coding and programming of the computer makes me uneasy.

i am currently looking into a $1500 engine management system program. apparantly this set-up replaces engine sensors and your entire computer, and you provide all the information, and run the computer of a laptop. this would be my dream set-up since i am in the know and control of everything. but i still dont know if this set-up would be possible.

in summary, computer and wiring harnesses aside, i have all the details you need for a complete SOHC manual swap. i am happy to share details, and you can email me. i have most part numbers. i bought all parts brand new from the dealership (except actual tranny, which you have to find on your own), and with everything including special tools, fluids, whatever, i probably spent about $3000 on the conversion. this should be the max amount, if you have access to donors, then a lot less.

 

[Blaine122300]

Thanks ALOT!!
My swap would be with my 91, and my goal is to find a donor Navajo, B"X"000, Explorer or Ranger. I feel as long as it has the 4.0L in it, I will be straight. This way I can strip the computer and everything out of it.

My real goal is to spend less money than it would cost to rebuild my tranny. Even if I get a donor, I will rebuild the tranny myself and save some $$$. I figure it will be a lot easier to rebuild while its out rather than go a year or so and have to rip it out again for a rebuild.
I would like to spend maybe $1500 max on the swap.
About $1000 on the donor and about $500 on extra parts. And of course it can go either way too. If I find a donor for cheaper, I can spend more on new parts, and so on.

Well, thanks again for the info, and if and when I do this swap, you will definately be hearing from me!!

Later,

Andy

 

[BonesDT]

'91 then you must have the 4.0L OHV, right? then you wont have any of those problems above. def get a donor if you can, especially for the tranny, computer, and all the wiring harnesses, which are the hardest parts to find. def buy new clutch parts no matter what. after a year i already burnt out a brand new factory clutch (it was meant for just the OHV not the SOHC, and i drive crazy). but consider a performance Centerforce pressure plate and clutch set or similiar, that's what ill be replacing mine with. you should also buy a new flywheel and slave cylinder/throwout bearing (its the same part) and maybe master cylinder and tubes.