AC relay?Or? | Ford Explorer Forums - Serious Explorations

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AC relay?Or?

Joined
February 3, 2006
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City, State
Northern Ontario
Year, Model & Trim Level
92 XLT
i need help with my ac

:navajo: i have a 92 explorer and the AC is not working at all? just wondering if anybody knows what the hell is wrong with this thing, i only have one fan setting which is full blast and theres nothing even relativly cold coming out of the vents. id aprreciate the help before i toss a greasy bellhousing through the windshield.
 



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Is the compressor kicking in when you turn the AC on? If not, it may be low on freon. Also, when you push the button in, does the AC light on the dash come on? If not, it may just be a bad switch, especially since your other speeds aren't working.
 






One fan speed should be the blower motor resistor, That's cheap & easy to replace. For the cold portion, you need to find out if it's charged. Search on AC & you should find a ton of posts on how to fix it.
 






welll the light comes on when i push it in but the compressor wont kick on i checked the r13 and its about 80-90 % full so i might have a bunk compressor?maybe?
 






Jason is right about the resistor. But, the 80-90%, are you talking about 80-90% of full system pressures? A/C gauge readings are the first things check to find a problem. It could just be the low pressure switch doing it`s job keeping the comp from kicking on when the system is low.
 






if the blower motor is not working at all, could the culpret still be the resistor? My air does not blow at all, at any speed. aamco told me they thought it was the resistor however. does this make sense, and should i just fix it myself? thanks, todd.
 






Ok.... a new AC season starts, so it's time for the same advice so often dispensed about these systems as teeh sesason starts. At least this year we have our own special forum.

Lets start with the basics. When you turn on the switch to start the air, you are energizing a circuit to engage the clutch on the compressor, which will then start to turn. However, before the compressor will be energized, a low pressure cutout switch must sense something in the system, pressure wise (like about 26-28 lbs). Otherwise it will prevent the compressor from starting. Why? Because if there is no refrigerant in the system, it means there is nothing to carry oil and the compressor will burnup (they are like 2 cycle engines - the oil is in the refrigerant).

So in a "no cooling" situation, the first thing to do is engage the switch and see if the compressor is turning. Not the pulley, but the compressor. If you need to be able to better tell if it is or not, have someone else engage the switch while you watch to hear if you hear a cloud click and can see the difference in what is turning.

If you have a compressor turning and no cooling we have a whole host of other things to discuss. Not here, now, anyway. Probably bigger problems than you want to try and handle.

If it is not turning, then we need to determine what the system pressure is, or isn't. (And it likely isn't with these symptoms.) The little tire pressure gauge thingies sold with recharge kits these days are all but worthless in my mind. You really need a decent gauge set... BUT... if all you have is a little gauge, it can at least tell you pressure (AND NOTHING ELSE !!! NO MATTER WHAT THE FACE OF IT SAYS ! YOU CANNOT ACCURATELY GAUGE PERCENT OF CHARGE WITH ONE OF THOSE THINGS !!!!!!!!!!! )

On the low pressure side do you have at least 30 psi ? If not you are not gonna have low cutout engagement, nor AC. RECHARGE time, or depending on HOW low it got - or didn't get, maybe just adding refrigerant time! (A fast cycling clutch is simply asking you to add some refrigerant.)

If you do have a decent pressure and no engagement, there is a liklihood of a defective low pressure cutout... rare, but can happen. First, check for the presence of 12V at the switch (located on the accumulator cannister on the passenger side near the firewall.) If you have 12V there on one of the terminals... try removing the connector and jumping the two leads to each other with a screwdriver with the engine running... does the compressor engage? If not you may have a bad clutch (also somewhat rare). If so you probably have a bad cutout switch.

But, in 99% of the cases as just described, you are low on refrigerant.

There is a thread on how to properly recharge in this new forum, and one about converting that ended up being an encyclopedia on Auto AC well beyond the simple issues on converting over from R-12... Enjoy.
 






low pressure cutout

Would this be the same or do you mean the A/C cycling switch on the Accumulator/Drier? I have a 99 Explorer sport and have no ac and noticed the commpresor clutch does not go on at all. I removed the connector and jumped the connector and boom the clutch kicks in. Is possible that the problem lies within the A/C cycling switch and or low refrigerent and NOT the A/C presure cut off switch on the Compressor itself?
 






Air Conditioner A-Z

First…......let's do some reading (BTW, these quotes aren't all mine):

Air Conditioner: How does it work?

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160498


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A clarification regarding how our air conditioners work.

The orifice has a hole in it. There is liquid on one side and pressure forces the liquid through this tiny hole which vaporizes it, something like a sprayer on the end of a garden hose.

When liquid is changed to a vapor like this a miracle occurs, it absorbs heat. This is why the evaporator follows the orifice, blowing cabin air through the evaporator transfers the heat to the expanding vapor inside the evaporator. Out of the top of the evaporator is low pressure gas.

The low pressure gas, and any suspended liquid refrigerant, goes to the accumulator, where any remaining liquid falls to the bottom leaving only low pressure gas. This is where the LP port is.

This low pressure gas is compressed by the compressor into ..... hot high pressure gas. Through the muffler and to the condenser. Just before the condenser is the high pressure port. At the condenser another miracle occurs, blowing air through the condenser removes the heat from the hot HP gas and turns it into a liquid. This is the liquid at the orifice that started this. So the orifice is the device that provides a difference between liquid and vapor.

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Then, What are the common problems?

What's wrong with my Air Conditioning?
A number of things can happen to make your A/C quit working. Here, we'll go over some of the common problems, and what you can do to fix it.

Leaks / Low Refrigerant
No A/C system is completely, 100% sealed. Over the years, small refrigerant particles will leak out, up to 1/2 ounce per year. On smaller-capacity systems, this will become noticeable a lot quicker than a larger capacity system. In this case, the most practical thing to do is simply add a bit more refrigerant. You will want to hook up a set of manifold gauges to make sure that the system has at least some pressure in it before you add refrigerant, because if the system is completely empty, you might have a most severe leak. At best, you will still have AIR in the system, and you want NO air in there.
Symptoms of low refrigerant include rapid cycling of the compressor clutch, or clutch will not engage, little or no cooling, very oily spots on A/C components.
A severe leak will require repair or component replacement. To find a leak, there must be some refrigerant in the system. An electronic 'sniffer' or dye are the most effective ways of finding a leak. Most A/C shops can perform this service for a minimal charge. Some retail auto parts stores also loan or rent tools for this.
Once the leak is identified, the component should be repaired or replaced, and the system serviced.
*Tip* - Evaporator leaks can be difficult to find, since the evaporator is usually not easily accessible, located in the dash of the vehicle. With dye in the system, place a white, preferably unused baby diaper under the evaporator drain tube. Moisture will drip on to the diaper. If there is dye in there, you'll know it!

Poor Airflow
One of the most-missed problems is poor airflow. Your A/C comes on, but it's not very cold. If you have a gauge, the high side pressure seems awfully high.
There are a couple of quick, easy things to check. First, make sure the condenser is debris-free, and that the fins are not all bent over. The condenser is located right in front of the radiator. Bugs, rocks, plastics bags, etc. covering the front of it prevent air from passing through, cooling not only your radiator, but also the refrigerant in the condenser.
All engines have either a fan clutch or radiator / condenser cooling fans. Fan clutch go out all the time. The fan clutch is located between the radiator and the engine, and has a big fan blade attached to it. With the engine on, that fan should be turning very fast, and moving a lot of air, TOWARDS the engine. Running correctly, you will not want to get your fingers near it. I recently repaired a 1996 Chevy truck that had blown the compressor shaft seal. While diagnosing the system, I noticed that the fan was barely turning. I could actually stop it with my hand. (not recommended for the non-professional) Because there was poor airflow, the pressure (pressure is temperature) built up from the condenser to the compressor, and was more than the compressor shaft seal could handle.
If the vehicle has an electric fan, make sure it (or they) comes on, and that the air is fast, and moving TOWARDS the engine. If the fan(s) does not come on, check the fuse. If that's not it, you may need to replace the fan.
*Tip* - You can confirm proper airflow by TEMPERATURE TESTING. A good thermometer that can be touched to the inlet and outlet of the condenser will confirm proper airflow. You should see a 20 to 40 degree drop from the inlet to the outlet of the 2 condenser pipes. For example, if you measure the temperature at the inlet (where it comes from the compressor) and have a temperature of 160 degrees, the outlet should be 100-140 degrees. Less than 20 degrees difference usually indicates poor airflow. MORE than 40 degrees usually indicates a restriction in the condenser.

Restrictions
A restriction is a condition where some piece of debris has lodged in a component, and is 'restricting' the flow of refrigerant. Condenser restrictions are the most common. Most late-model condensers have very small passages, as low as 6mms! When there is a restriction in the system, the flow of refrigerant is greatly slowed, or sometimes stopped completely. The blockage causes pressure to build up behind the restriction, and will cause damage to the components behind it.
The most effective way to locate a restriction is with temperature testing. With a good thermometer, temperature (which is pressure!) can be measured ANYWHERE on the system. Large drops in temperature can be identified and repaired. For example, a restricted condenser...If the inlet measures 160 degrees (about 295 psi) and the outlet measures 90 degrees (about 103 psi), it means the refrigerant is slowly leaking past a restriction. Because the refrigerant spends more time in the condenser, it has time to cool of more. Problem is, that 295 psi will continue to build back, and will eventually blow a seal somewhere, probably in the compressor.
Some restrictions can be repaired by flushing the restricted component, but parallel-flow condensers usually need to be replaced.

Improper Refrigerant Charge
As A/C systems become smaller and smaller, the amount of refrigerant in the system becomes critical. The correct charge for an A/C system has been calculated and engineered by vehicle manufacturers for optimum performance. Here are some tips to keep in mind when charging a system:
Charging with cans: A 12 ounce can of refrigerant gives you 12 ounces of refrigerant, right? Well, not always. If you are using a gauge set to charge, those hoses can hold up to 4 ounces of refrigerant themselves. On a 56 ounce capacity system, those 4 ounces might not make a big difference, but on a 1 pound system, you can bet it will. Also, notice how when you pull the can tap off, how the can wasn't quite empty? Yep, another ounce or 2 there.
Too much! Your A/C isn't quite cooling, so you run down to the parts store or a big box retail store, and buy a recharge kit. We in the industry call 'em suicide kits. You add a can of refrigerant. Well, with A/C, too much isn't better.
Retrofitting: Vehicles manufactured prior to 1993 and some 1994 originally came with R12 refrigerant. Because of the cost of that refrigerant, most folks opt to retrofit to R134a refrigerant. Problem is, there is no set standard for how much R134a refrigerant to use in an R12 system. There are many misconceptions about how much to use, and some people have come up with percentages of original charge. I've heard to use as little as 60% of the original charge!
So how do I know if I have the proper charge? Our old friend temperature testing can help determine if you have the proper charge. Orifice tube systems are the easiest and most accurately confirmed systems. It can be done on expansion valve systems, but you'll need to get on the evaporator side of the expansion valve.
Here's how: Measure the evaporator inlet pipe and record your temperature. Now measure the outlet pipe of the evaporator. Those 2 temperatures should be as close to equal as possible, at least within 5 degrees of each other. If the outlet is MORE than 5 degrees warmer than the inlet, you still need more refrigerant. If the outlet is MORE than 5 degrees cooler than the inlet, you have too much refrigerant in there.
Final tip: If your A/C is working, don't mess with. If you have an R12 system, you do NOT need to have it converted to R134a just because someone tells you that R12 is gone. If it's working, leave it alone.
If your system is working and sealed, you DO NOT need to replace your filter drier or accumulator. This is not a part that wears out. The only time you need to replace it is when the system is opened, or if you've had a leak that allows air (and moisture) into the system. If someone tells you you need to replace it every 3, 5 or 7 years, they're trying to sell you something.

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From:

http://reviews.ebay.com/A-C-Diagnosing_W0QQugidZ10000000000946036

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Aloha, Mark
 






So....what tools will I need if I wanted to fix it, DIY?

If you were planning on doing some AC work, there are few special tools that you’ll need. The recovery systems are usually cost prohibitive for most home DIY guys. As a plan of action, you could have the AC Shop test for leaks and/or recover the refrigerant from your system. Then, you could do the replacement of parts (if any) and recharge the system by yourself.

BTW….the links that I have provided here, are just to help you visualize the part ..you can buy from whomever, you want to.

For AC parts and tools, you could check with major AC Supply Houses like:

http://www.ackits.com/

http://www.acsource.com/

But, I’ve found some pretty good deals at my local Harbor Freight store. If you don’t have one close by, you could always mail order. Watch for their frequent sales. Hint: If there is a catalog (internet) sale, the local store will honor the sale price. Just print the page and take it into the store.

http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/common/start.do

The dual gauge manifold set is needed for any serious DIY AC work.

Manifold set - http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=92649

Vacuum pump (evacuator):

Some folks have used a venturi style evacuator with success. Though, you will need a decent shop compressor to use it (one person commented that he used his with a 30 gallon Craftsmen 6 hp compressor). It works. Just not as easy to use as an electric evacuator pump.

venturi style evacuation - http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=92475

The elec. vacuum pumps are available from various mfns at different levels of suction power and prices. Ebay has a lot of them at very good prices. I got one for home use that is factory rated to suck down to the 50 micron level (paid about $125). Anything that will suck down to lower than 200 microns should be good enough.

Elec. Vacuum Pump -
http://www.napaonline.com/masterpag...PartNumber=781900&Description=A/C+Vacuum+Pump

***A Manifold Set and Vacuum Pump can usually be purchased as a kit (cheaper than the single prices).
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Smaller Tools:

You will still need the can tap connector that will be used to tap the sealed R-134a can and connect it to the yellow hose.

AC Can Tap - http://www.napaonline.com/masterpag...er=783012&Description=A/C+Refrigerant+Can+Tap

You’ll likely need a quick detach tool to get those AC lines open and/or disconnected. They can also be used for fuel lines.

quick detach tool - http://www.napaonline.com/masterpag...cription=A/C+&+Fuel+Line+Quick+Disconnect+Set

Also handy to remove the orifice tube….though, I’ve used a long nose pliers.

Orifice Removal Tool - http://www.napaonline.com/masterpag...er=783205&Description=A/C+Orifice+Tube+Puller

If you want to look for leaks yourself, here is a tool that retails at almost $100.

Leak detector - http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=92514

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Safety Warnings Time.......

This is really just a safety thread for you DIYs. A/c systems can be easy (sometimes- with the right tools) to work on, but you must be careful around the stuff. Through those lines and in the compressor is highly compressed gasses/fluids and you need to understand that they are heavily pressurized. Even when you pull vacuum or pull the system down, STILL take precautions when taking lines off.

I ALWAYS recommend wearing eye protection when working on a charged system and fooling around with fittings etc. Refrigerant in your eye isn't a potential problem later, it is a certain BLINDNESS or serious vision problem RIGHT NOW ! Corneal replacements are not fun, cheap, nor easy to come by. Safety glasses may not be fun but they are cheap and easy to come by. Blindness sucks.


Aloha, Mark
 






Continuing on.....So, how does one fix the common AC problem?

When most folks say: I want to add a can of refrigerant to my system.

I’ll ask: Do you suspect a leak? Or, will it just be: add a bit of charge to the system? (If it is, skip to the "Typical- Add A Bit Of Charge")

Because…..leak testing is usually done by adding a dye into the system or with a sniffer. Once the leaking part is identified…..you gotta decide: Do I let the shop replace the part(s) or do I want to DIY?

If you’re gonna DIY the parts replacement……and IF the system is still under pressure…...it will need to be evacuated. Most DIY guys don‘t have the big bucks to buy an evacuation machine that will also recover the refrigerant. So, they leave that job for the shop. To release the R-134a into the atmosphere is unlawful.

However, IF the system is already empty……you could start replacing the leaking parts.

When the parts are replaced, don’t forget to add oil to the individual part(s). Oil is introduced to a specific part, at the installation time. The amount will vary, based on what part it is and the kind/brand of the system. Refer to a good book on the subject. Once the parts have been replaced and the system is buttoned up, it’s on to the next step.

We’ll continue…….by evacuating (AKA: vacuuming) the system. The vacuumed system will need to be checked for leaks. IF the vacuum doesn’t hold, you got a leak. IF the vacuum holds, you’ll usually vacuum the system for an additional ½ to 1 hour (to ”boil off” any air in the system). Once that is done, it's OK to proceed with a Full Re-Charge.

Typical- Add A Bit Of Charge:

http://www.stu-offroad.com/engine/ac/ac-1.htm

Or, a Full Re-Charge (Best Way):

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158183

**Note: System pressures will vary between mfns and applications.

R-134a is replaced based on the system's capacity. See the under hood engine compartment sticker, AC book or NAPA chart (link below). IMHO.....don't use "R-134a w/stop leak"......use ONLY pure R134a.

http://www.napabeltshose.com/news/in...&show=newsitem

IF you overfill the system w/ oil or R-134a.....it could lead to more problems. Having the correct capacities of oil and R-134a in the system ensures "one less problem" to deal with.

Note: IMHO.....If the system is opened or was empty or if the accumulator is over 5 years old......replace the accumulator and orifice tube........save yourself from potential future problems.

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And, some additional notes.........

AC Jumper wire comments:

I wouldn't "jump or hot wire" a compressor switch in an effort to permanently fix a problem. Then again, I doubt that you intended a "permanent" fix w/ the jumper (hot wire). The "jump or hot wire" comments that one usually sees (ref. to bypass the low pressure switch when recharging a system) is only a temporary measure to help get R-134a sucked into the system (enough, to bring the system pressure up.....so, the compressor will operate). But, I guess you knew that too.

That being said.......you remove the connector located on the low pressure switch (found on the accumulator).....you then use a paper clip to "jump" the connection.

If you have the system at capacity.....and the compressor isn't functioning.....think.....low pressure switch, replacement.

OK.......story time. I was "thinking" that my low pressure switch wasn't working. Cause, after I had "fully charged it," I didn't see my compressor switching on and off w/in a set time period. I purchased the new switch and I unscrewed the old switch. Well, the valve behind the switch started leaking out R-134a. I couldn't get the switch back on, to stop the leak. So, I went back to the auto parts place and bought a replacement valve. By then, all of the R-134a had leaked out......so, I was back to square one. Was this THE LEAK that I was looking for?
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The Low Pressure Switch

The switch on the accumulator controls the clutch on the compressor. *When the system pressure is less than 24.5 psi the clutch is disengaged. When the pressure is greater than 43.5 psi the compressor clutch engages. The switch is screwed on to a schraeder valve, like on tires. It can be removed without discharging system, having said that there have been two instances this season of sticking valves. Running the compressor (jumpering) without oil for >30 seconds can damage it.

*Readings vary between the systems and mfns.
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Aloha, Mark
 






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