Completed Project My 98 super charged EX

[4pointslow]

Water Methanol

I had to install some LED's so I would know when the fluid is low and when the system is actually spraying. Blue is for spray, red for fluid level.
I used a washer bottle with sending unit in it but the light is always on until the fluid is low. Backwards from how I want it. I will have to play with some diodes or a relay to change that. I got a connector for the washer bottle level sensor, a couple of LEDs I had laying around, and finally some time to work on it. I messed up the installation on the Red LED, the hole is not where I intended it to be. I was not even drinking. I have two more of these console pockets that I got from a junkyard, so I can redo it later.

 

[4pointslow]

Timing

I sort of tested the water methanol out, just the beginning stages of testing though. I was able to increase the timing 2 degrees without detonation so far. I was not able to run 4rth gear up to 6,000 though so I will try again later. If it is successful I will add two more degrees timing and see what happens.

 

[2000StreetRod]

Indicators

I like your idea of installing indicators. I may install one to let me know when the intercooler pump and heat exchanger fan are energized. Blue is a good choice for cooling.

 

[Dono]

whew, I was getting concerned you blew your truck up at the track. Great to hear its ok.

Are you having to readjust your fueling with the addition of the meth?
What boost level are you starting to add meth? What boost are you adding max?
What jet are you settling on?

 

[4pointslow]

Water Methanol

@ 2000streetrod
Not really my idea, the Snow Performance kit came with little LED's. I just decided to use larger ones for level and spray so I could see them from the corner of my eye. For all other LED's I recommend smaller ones and placing them out of direct sight when sitting in the drivers seat, so they don't irritate you when driving at night.

@ Dono
I guess I should have added a new post instead of editing the last one with 1/4 mile times. (see post #400 )
I have noticed a slightly richer A/F mixture while spraying. I have not adjusted for it yet since I am still experimenting. I am not using boost to activate the W/M spray, I am using MAF voltage. Most W/M manufacture instructions that I read say to use MAF with Roots type superchargers, and boost for Centrifugal and turbos. I don't trust the vacuum/boost ports(vacuum transducers/sensors) on electronic devices either, they can break easily or the vacuum/boost line could break and then you have no spray. If I had a turbo or centrifugal SC I would have used the boost port though. My controller can do both.
Snow performance says you should not spray below 3,300 - 3,500 RPM or you could have combustion quench. I have read that feels like spark blow out or hitting the rev limiter. I looked at some of my datalogs to see what the MAF count number was at 3,500 RPM and choose a number slightly higher, I then converted the counts to volts and set the W/M controller to that spot to come on. I looked at my max MAF counts and set my max spray off that.
Driving around watching for the light to come on under different conditions proved that the spray doesn't come on under normal driving conditions and it does come on when under heavy acceleration so I am pleased with that setting so far.
As far as the jet/nozzle Snow has theirs rated for HP.
250 - 350 RWHP: 175ml/min nozzle.
350 - 475 RWHP: 375ml/min nozzle
475 - 600 RWHP 625ml/min nozzle
I started with the smallest one. I want to see how far I can advance the timing with that nozzle, then I will try the next size bigger. Once I find an appropriate nozzle size I will order one from another manufacturer that uses a hex shape to tighten or loosen it. The Snow nozzle uses to small flats that you can barely get a wrench on, I was not impressed with that.
If there is a worthy gain in horse power I will keep the system, I will play around with timing and A/F to see what works best. I also plan on adding the Safeinjection unit and W/M flow gauge (another $400.00 for both) for added engine safety. If there are no worthy horse power gains I will just remove the system.
I wanted to add that some W/M calculators came up with a nozzle of over 600ml (when using 1) when I typed in my specs, and I have only started with the 175ml.
There seems to be a lot of conflicting information on jet size. I think mainly because of pump pressure and flow specs.

 

[Dono]

Yes, there is lots of conflicting stuff on the jet sizing. Seems to be a bit of a sophisticated, wild a$$ guess (SWAG) to start with.

It also seems to be dependent on if you want a meth dependent tune and are fine with more frequent refills.

I used boost as my method of when to spray. You are right, I did run in to issues as when boost came on early in the rpm's I would experience the 'bog' you mentioned. I ended up changing my spray 'ramp' to get rid of this. If I were to do it again. Your method sounds like the best route to go.

If your able to advance timing, I'd sure hope you are seeing more hp.
So, are you spraying before your iat sensor? If so, are you seeing lower temps?

excuse me while I go to post 400.

 

[4pointslow]

Iat

Dono,
I am spraying before the throttle plate, and before the IAT. I didn't see any change in the IAT, I am thinking the W/M might not effect IAT's. I guess it depends where the evaporation takes place. I still need to get a datalog in 4th gear all the way to 6,000 so I have all the data to look at, then I can really compare IAT's and make sure there is no Knock sensor activity.

 

[4pointslow]

Washer Fluid

I should also state that I am using RainX washer fluid. I was going to experiment with just plain water first but decided to just keep using the washer fluid I have been using for years now. If I put plain water in it and never used it up it would freeze in the winter and break stuff.
The label on the RainX says it is good to -25F. I could not find -40 degree washer fluid during a quick internet search at the local parts stores. The next time I am actually in one of the stores I will look to see if they carry anything with a colder rating around here since that seems to show how much methanol is in it.
Dono, what jet did you end up using with your set up?

 

[2000StreetRod]

post MAF sensor?

I assume that you are spraying after the MAF sensor. Otherwise, the mass of the water/methanol would increase the MAF sensor output voltage.

I suspect the most impact of water/methanol is to reduce hot spots in the combustion chamber and to lower the temperature of the combustion chamber. Just injecting water should accomplish the same thing since water absorbs a lot of heat when it vaporizes. However, water is not combustible. I guess methane which is combustible is added to restore the AFR. Also, I think methane has a higher octane rating than gasoline. Since water is not compressible it may raise combustion chamber pressure.

Water injection has been used with aircraft engines for short take offs for a long time. I think a small amount of oil was introduced to prevent corrosion.

 

[Dono]

Yes, Im spraying after the throttle body. So this is after the maf, but before the iat sensor.
Im not sure about the rain-x stuff. Id be a bit concerned about the detergents that are added.
Maybe you don't see the straight blue windshield washer fluid in your area. Its reasonably inexpensive and is straight water/meth with some blue die. the -40 stuff has the most meth, but maybe your climate is not as severe so its not carried in the stores.
Maybe -35 stuff at wallmart?

I experimented with different jets, and ended up with the smallest one. In my case, I started spraying at about 4 lbs boost, and maxed it out by 8 lbs. I know your using the maf sensor voltage, so this doesn't really apply. My 4.0 ohv doesn't move anywhere near the air you are moving, so I'd guess you might want to use the middle sized jet that comes with the kit.
I did a test at wot using the water/meth on a manual switch. I went wot and then turned the pump on. No question, there was more pull with the meth spraying. As you are saying, you have started to add timing, so it does work.

 

[Dono]

This should keep you going for a bit.
http://www.costco.ca/.product.10006...vc=itempageSeoHorizontal|CategorySiloedViewCP

 

[4pointslow]

I assume that you are spraying after the MAF sensor. Otherwise, the mass of the water/methanol would increase the MAF sensor output voltage.

I suspect the most impact of water/methanol is to reduce hot spots in the combustion chamber and to lower the temperature of the combustion chamber. Just injecting water should accomplish the same thing since water absorbs a lot of heat when it vaporizes. However, water is not combustible. I guess methane which is combustible is added to restore the AFR. Also, I think methane has a higher octane rating than gasoline. Since water is not compressible it may raise combustion chamber pressure.

Water injection has been used with aircraft engines for short take offs for a long time. I think a small amount of oil was introduced to prevent corrosion.

I am spraying after the MAF as well.
The Methanol prevents freezing in cold winter months too. It is said that the methanol in a near 50/50 mixture also raises the octane of the A/F mixture going into the cylinder. Makes me wonder if when adding ethanol to our fuels the manufacturer's can put less of the octane raising chemicals saving themselves money.

 

[4pointslow]

W/m

This should keep you going for a bit.
http://www.costco.ca/.product.10006...vc=itempageSeoHorizontal|CategorySiloedViewCP

LOL,
holy crap that's a lot of washer fluid.
I read somewhere that if you shake the washer fluid and it foams up there is lots of detergents in it. The RainX did not foam up at all. I need an MSDS sheet for that stuff to look into it further, maybe that would shed some light on how much methanol was in there. Supposed to rain this weekend, maybe I will go looking for different washer fluids since I may not be able to do any datalogging.

 

[2000StreetRod]

Msds

The composition is probably proprietary. I think it contains Bitrex to make it taste extremely bitter to prevent drinking. The MSDS will only list the poisonous or flammable contents. According to the US Dept of Health & Human Services:

 

[4pointslow]

W/m

The composition is probably proprietary. I think it contains Bitrex to make it taste extremely bitter to prevent drinking. The MSDS will only list the poisonous or flammable contents. According to the US Dept of Health & Human Services:
View attachment 80366

Is that from RainX washer fluid or windshield treatment?
I use the orange stuff, -25f

 

[4pointslow]

Msds

Here is the rainX washer fluid one.
It covers the different temperature RainX's.
The ones for colder climates have more methanol(40%).

 

[2000StreetRod]

wrong stuff

Sorry, it's Rain X The Invisible Windshield Wiper by Unelko Corp. I didn't realize they have more than one product. Here's the Rain X Plus Bug Remover Premium Washer Fluid-06/28/2002:

I don't know what color it is.

Edit: Sorry again. This one was made by ITW Global Brands. Yours looks more reasonable.

 

[4pointslow]

Ignition timing with water methanol

With the smallest nozzle that came with the Snow Performance kit I was only able to advance the timing 2 degrees. Any more than that and the knock sensor picked up detonation.
I switched to the middle size nozzle and was able to advance 6 Degrees. Check out the datalog below.
The purple is the Throttle position sensor, it should be 950 or above for WOT.
The black line is RPM.
The red line is ignition timing advance. Note that the drop at the third ramp is the pcm protecting the transmission when shifting into 4th and is perfectly normal.
Spark is 13 on average in the screen shot, it was 7 before W/M tuning.
The yellow line indicates knock sensor activity, when there is activity it drops down suddenly. The straight line here is showing no knock sensor activity.

I was planning a night at the track to get some better datalogs, finish tuning, and some new time slips but that will have to wait now.

Friday night I went out to the garage to install the biggest nozzle that came with the kit and to my surprise I found my coolant over flow bottle was higher than normal. I figure that I am finally blowing combustion gases into the cooling system now via a head gasket and stretching head bolts. I will check for combustion gases in the cooling system with a kit from pep boys. The blue fluid turns green if it is there. If it is like I believe, then I will be installing ARP head studs and new head gaskets.

 

[4pointslow]

You would not believe

My weekend story gets better...
See here, post 11

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=395226

and here too.
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3347126#post3347126

 

[vroomzoomboom]

to this day it amazes me that the motor hasnt had a major melt down.