03 4.0 17x,x.. miles chain went?

[Christobal]

Out of the blue I started it cold and it immediately sounds like chain slapping under there and the engine didn't want to run but did have some combustion.

I noticed no coolant when it first happened but when placed nose up instead of nose down where parked when it happened, 4-8 oz of coolant dropped from rear of engine. I would not think the chain issue would cause a simultaneous coolant expulsion. Coolant in since 3 months before it happened.

If rolled back from the water pump, which is original, Ive never had a water pump fail catastrophically on start up with no warning leading up.

if it was the chain, or chains, Ive read about noise leading up and just have not heard anything. I did notice what I would call a slight tendency to be harder to start at times, not consistent and slight, and I mean slight roughness here and there at idle.... no indication of power loss anywhere or roughness under load at any rpm.

I haven't taken a closer look since, curious what you all think. All that immediate noise and clatter immediately at start has me thinking the chain and tensioner weakness reared its ugly head. The coolant pushed out in combo has me puzzled.

I have read this is NOT an interference engine, but also have read it IS. Who has the fact(s) on this?

BTW this thing has had normal -30 weight Mobil 1 since about the third oil change and has operated in a relatively warm climate, so I doubt cold temp viscosity oiling issues over time.

Mobil 1 since 3rd oil change new and moderate to warm SoCal climate since new.

 

[Mbrooks420]

It most certainly IS an interference engine.

 

[Tech By Trade]

Odds are the coolant is a bad thermostat housing, and its been sitting in the valley until you parked on a hill. not related. yes, the engine is interference, if it had the diesel rattle and jumped a couple links, or a chain snapped, all the valves will be bent on that side, and its much easier to drop in a referb. If it still has compression on all cylinders your lucky, and you can pull the engine and replace all the timing components.

 

[Christobal]

Odds are the coolant is a bad thermostat housing, and its been sitting in the valley until you parked on a hill. not related. yes, the engine is interference, if it had the diesel rattle and jumped a couple links, or a chain snapped, all the valves will be bent on that side, and its much easier to drop in a referb. If it still has compression on all cylinders your lucky, and you can pull the engine and replace all the timing components.

 

[Christobal]

Ok, I set it to the side for a while in disgust. I will put some pressure on the coolant system and see where it comes out. Odd coincidence, but I hope it is.

As for the motor....shaking my head. Do I understand correctly Ford put out a recall with limited duration for this timing equipment issue? Any info on when that was? I have also read there was/is a TSB for it? I assume that doesn't involve any $$ outlay from Ford? I would be surprised if we didn't notice any letters in the mail from Ford.

I will get another leakdown gage and a compression gage and take a look after doing some initial hand turning of the crank.

 

[Mbrooks420]

Unfortunately the time for all that has way passed. Not sure bout the TSB, but the Cloyes brand components come highly recommended on the forum.

 

[Christobal]

Unfortunately the time for all that has way passed. Not sure bout the TSB, but the Cloyes brand components come highly recommended on the forum.

 

[Christobal]

Ok, glad a company like Cloyes makes stuff for this if I end up going that route. I really like most aspects of the vehicle but stuff like this is a major mental setback. I am glad it's not a financial issue or a matter of not having other vehicles or I would be extremely annoyed. I have received recall notices on other Ford vehicles and had the work done, surprised I did not see one for this issue.....makes one wonder.

The combination of this and the interference issue, wouldn't be at all surprised if some valve/piston/cylinder wall etc. was done.....major league disappointment all things considered.

 

[Tech By Trade]

Ok, glad a company like Cloyes makes stuff for this if I end up going that route. I really like most aspects of the vehicle but stuff like this is a major mental setback. I am glad it's not a financial issue or a matter of not having other vehicles or I would be extremely annoyed. I have received recall notices on other Ford vehicles and had the work done, surprised I did not see one for this issue.....makes one wonder.

The combination of this and the interference issue, wouldn't be at all surprised if some valve/piston/cylinder wall etc. was done.....major league disappointment all things considered.

Welcome to the club.

 

[Drewmcg]

Getting 170k+ miles out of the original timing chain guides is at or above par for this engine. Mine went out at 179k miles (previous owner).

Unfortunate that you got no audible warning of impending failure. The chain slap normally associated with failed/failing timing guides is a great clue to have the problem addressed before serious engine damage ensues.

The recommended oil for this 4.0 SOHV engine is 5w-30. Not sure whether you're running straight 30 weight, but if so that's a mistake. It doesn't matter that you're in a warm climate. Even at a start up temp of at 70-80 degrees F, the engine is "cold" (compared with approx. 200+ degree F running temp). These engines are sensitive to oil viscosity precisely because of the hydraulic (oil-pressurized) timing chain tensioners. Also, Motorcraft or other oil filter with a superior anti-drain-back setup (like Wix) are highly recommended. Much of the timing chain guide wear is in the first few minutes of cold startup, before engine oil warms and fully pressurizes the hydraulic tensioners.

These cast iron block "Cologne" engines have a rock solid bottom end (below the heads). When I tore apart my '02 4.0 SOHC with 179k miles and took out the pistons, the cylinder walls look like they were new from the factory (cross hatching, etc.). Unfortunately, the catastrophic failure of the rear timing chain guide damaged the block, which failed after I put it back together with reconditioned heads. I pulled that original engine, bought a scrap '02 Explorer built the same month as mine as a parts car, pulled that engine, swapped over the Cloyes timing parts, and its been running like a top ever since. 5w-30 oil every 5-7k miles w/Motorcraft or Wix filter is all she needs.

If you have your engine rebuilt, make sure whoever does it is scrupulous about fishing out the shattered bits of chain guides from the oil sump pickup, etc.

If you decide to replace with a used engine, definitely have all timing chain parts (and water pump, and thermostat housing) replaced before you have it installed. Use Motorcraft (best) or Cloyes (close) timing components. Good luck.

 

[Christobal]

Getting 170k+ miles out of the original timing chain guides is at or above par for this engine. Mine went out at 179k miles (previous owner).

Unfortunate that you got no audible warning of impending failure. The chain slap normally associated with failed/failing timing guides is a great clue to have the problem addressed before serious engine damage ensues.

The recommended oil for this 4.0 SOHV engine is 5w-30. Not sure whether you're running straight 30 weight, but if so that's a mistake. It doesn't matter that you're in a warm climate. Even at a start up temp of at 70-80 degrees F, the engine is "cold" (compared with approx. 200+ degree F running temp). These engines are sensitive to oil viscosity precisely because of the hydraulic (oil-pressurized) timing chain tensioners. Also, Motorcraft or other oil filter with a superior anti-drain-back setup (like Wix) are highly recommended. Much of the timing chain guide wear is in the first few minutes of cold startup, before engine oil warms and fully pressurizes the hydraulic tensioners.

These cast iron block "Cologne" engines have a rock solid bottom end (below the heads). When I tore apart my '02 4.0 SOHC with 179k miles and took out the pistons, the cylinder walls look like they were new from the factory (cross hatching, etc.). Unfortunately, the catastrophic failure of the rear timing chain guide damaged the block, which failed after I put it back together with reconditioned heads. I pulled that original engine, bought a scrap '02 Explorer built the same month as mine as a parts car, pulled that engine, swapped over the Cloyes timing parts, and its been running like a top ever since. 5w-30 oil every 5-7k miles w/Motorcraft or Wix filter is all she needs.

If you have your engine rebuilt, make sure whoever does it is scrupulous about fishing out the shattered bits of chain guides from the oil sump pickup, etc.

If you decide to replace with a used engine, definitely have all timing chain parts (and water pump, and thermostat housing) replaced before you have it installed. Use Motorcraft (best) or Cloyes (close) timing components. Good luck.

 

[Christobal]

Drew, yeah thanks for that. It always got 5- Mobil 1 since early on not straight weight. Had no idea oil was used to tension the tensioners. We shall see what I decide to do. It is on the side for now. My main issue is finding the right shop or doing it myself. I have never had anyone pull and rebuild an engine. I know many shouldn't be doing the job. Any recommendations for SoCal could be helpful..usually get what you pay for and that's ok, but not always true either. Any recommendations on reman engines? I would rather the money not go to Ford in this case.

The Cloys and Motorcraft updated tensioner parts have a service lifre shorter than 'indefinite' or life of engine? I take it the plastic has been removed? Anyone know when Ford first carried their corrected parts for this?

 

[edcantu9]

Getting 170k+ miles out of the original timing chain guides is at or above par for this engine. Mine went out at 179k miles (previous owner).

Unfortunate that you got no audible warning of impending failure. The chain slap normally associated with failed/failing timing guides is a great clue to have the problem addressed before serious engine damage ensues.

The recommended oil for this 4.0 SOHV engine is 5w-30. Not sure whether you're running straight 30 weight, but if so that's a mistake. It doesn't matter that you're in a warm climate. Even at a start up temp of at 70-80 degrees F, the engine is "cold" (compared with approx. 200+ degree F running temp). These engines are sensitive to oil viscosity precisely because of the hydraulic (oil-pressurized) timing chain tensioners. Also, Motorcraft or other oil filter with a superior anti-drain-back setup (like Wix) are highly recommended. Much of the timing chain guide wear is in the first few minutes of cold startup, before engine oil warms and fully pressurizes the hydraulic tensioners.

These cast iron block "Cologne" engines have a rock solid bottom end (below the heads). When I tore apart my '02 4.0 SOHC with 179k miles and took out the pistons, the cylinder walls look like they were new from the factory (cross hatching, etc.). Unfortunately, the catastrophic failure of the rear timing chain guide damaged the block, which failed after I put it back together with reconditioned heads. I pulled that original engine, bought a scrap '02 Explorer built the same month as mine as a parts car, pulled that engine, swapped over the Cloyes timing parts, and its been running like a top ever since. 5w-30 oil every 5-7k miles w/Motorcraft or Wix filter is all she needs.

If you have your engine rebuilt, make sure whoever does it is scrupulous about fishing out the shattered bits of chain guides from the oil sump pickup, etc.

If you decide to replace with a used engine, definitely have all timing chain parts (and water pump, and thermostat housing) replaced before you have it installed. Use Motorcraft (best) or Cloyes (close) timing components. Good luck.

Is there a guide on this site on how to pull the engine from this truck?

 

[Drewmcg]

Drew, yeah thanks for that. It always got 5- Mobil 1 since early on not straight weight. Had no idea oil was used to tension the tensioners. We shall see what I decide to do. It is on the side for now. My main issue is finding the right shop or doing it myself. I have never had anyone pull and rebuild an engine. I know many shouldn't be doing the job. Any recommendations for SoCal could be helpful..usually get what you pay for and that's ok, but not always true either. Any recommendations on reman engines? I would rather the money not go to Ford in this case.

The Cloys and Motorcraft updated tensioner parts have a service lifre shorter than 'indefinite' or life of engine? I take it the plastic has been removed? Anyone know when Ford first carried their corrected parts for this?

Several factors influence your next steps, mostly how much you value the truck. Bought mine as second vehicle but like it so much that it's now my daily driver.

First, I'd figure out if you've damaged the heads by skipping timing. Leak down test probably in order. If no problems, you've got good valves/heads. These engines rarely blow head gaskets (unless seriously overheated). At that point, you are just looking at timing cassettes.

If you take to a shop, I'd recommend having it towed there.

If leak down test shows valve damage, you're looking at a significantly bigger job. But still repairable, if the cost/benefit is there. Problems here will tell you which bank the timing cassettes failed on.

Especially if leak down is okay, next is to pull valve cover(s), which will allow you to inspect secondary timing components directly. You might get lucky and find that that the left (driver side) timing chain failed. You don't need to pull engine to replace that cassette.

You're Socal, so I'm guessing body in excellent condition. Pulling engine and replacing timing chain's is a huge job with significant learning curve, special tools, etc. If you're not up for it, sell it as a mechanics special and don't look back. Paying someone else to do this may be cost prohibitive. Bear in mind that you'll likely have transmission issue in next 20k our so (I did, but fixed completely for $200 with servo bore kit).

If you do pull engine and replace all timing components, the repair should last the remaining life of truck. I'm confident mine will, and would not hesitate to drive cross country, as I have done twice already since repair.

If you still want a shop recommendation, my brother is in Orange Country and I could ask him, but he mostly uses performance shops. You might consider using a backyard mechanic who has done this job before for budget price (craigslist). Good luck.

 

[loooney2ns]

If you do need to replace the engine, keep in mind that the 4.0 engines in Mustangs are the same engine, and usually half the price from a junkyard. You will have to swap your tin over and the manifolds and water pump, but the long block is identical.

 

[Christobal]

If you do need to replace the engine, keep in mind that the 4.0 engines in Mustangs are the same engine, and usually half the price from a junkyard. You will have to swap your tin over and the manifolds and water pump, but the long block is identical.

Good info. BTW, cant believe everything you see on the internet, but I read that by 2002 the 4.0 sohc had received updated timing tensioners etc. to deal with this issue. Can anyone speak to that? This is a 2003 Explorer with the trouble. If there was updated equipment either installed on vehicles at production or made available after, is the new stuff considered 'lifetime' parts or ??

Speaking of the servo bore kit for the trans. I noticed it seemed like when the ATF had been in there a while under certain conditions I could hear what sounded like the servos moving pistons or whatever and making a fairly quiet squeal for a second as they move.The first time I heard it was probably somewhere in the 50k-100k miles range...with 17x,x.. now. You guys hear that or have a story on that? The first time I heard it was probably somewhere in the 50k-100k miles range...with 17x,x.. now.

 

[Drewmcg]

Upgraded parts, yes. Lifetime, ha!

 

[loooney2ns]

The parts are upgraded from the motors in the 2nd gen trucks. However, they still fail, just not as often.

 

[Tech By Trade]

The made the pin removable in the rear cassette so you no longer had to pull the head to install it.

 

[Drewmcg]

. . .

Speaking of the servo bore kit for the trans. I noticed it seemed like when the ATF had been in there a while under certain conditions I could hear what sounded like the servos moving pistons or whatever and making a fairly quiet squeal for a second as they move.The first time I heard it was probably somewhere in the 50k-100k miles range...with 17x,x.. now. You guys hear that or have a story on that? The first time I heard it was probably somewhere in the 50k-100k miles range...with 17x,x.. now.

Not quite following your question, but doubt that you could hear the transmission "servos moving pistons" squealing, and at least not while driving down the road. Transmission problem symptoms are virtually always delayed shifts, "flaring" of shifts, inability to hold overdrive (causing rpms to be higher than normal over about 45 mph or so), and things of that nature. The two servos on these transmissions are connected to the overdrive and intermediate bands, respectively. The overdrive servo is usually the first/most common problem, and if I had to guess its most typically a 130k mile + problem. I doubt you'd have experienced it at under 100k miles.